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Old 2012-08-12, 22:23   Link #441
vansonbee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahan View Post
I expect Mizoguchi to be top 2, but not chosen as an astronaut unlike Kenji (and Furuya who looked happy and satisfied in the preview)

I can see the whole Team A passing the exam. (jury is still out on Fukuda, but he can't be the only one to fail, can he ?)
Or maybe the preview is misleading. I highly doubt the company gonna go by the group decision base on luck and there is more needed time to review who is the best candidate (weeks).

Personally, I hope they all past and each goes to there assigned area of space flight.
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Old 2012-08-13, 06:20   Link #442
cyth
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
The scene played too much like intentional misdirection. I expect it'll turn out that the jerkwad is upset because Kenji's in second while he's in last. It'd be a nice counterpoint to how Furuya accepted being in last place and was willing to let the better candidates get the nomination.
I thought of the same thing, although I think the plan is to make Mizoguchi less of an asshole than he looks like. From a different point of view, he's just a stubborn guy who holds up his ideal of "tangible metrics," no matter what people think of him. At the end though, he has no capacity to think outside of the box, so he's not an appropriate candidate for being sent into space. Or maybe he is? I suspect Mizoguchi was portrayed as an epitome of the Japanese school system which heavily favors exam performance and standardized approaches to everything. I think this resentment is pretty much apparent from Mutta's flashbacks, especially the ones where nobody really understood his dreams, or how "practical" people view spending trillions of JPY for a space program.
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Old 2012-08-13, 06:33   Link #443
ookamigirl
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The last day.
It was interesting hearing their thoughts.
Giving them freedom to do whatever the last day was cool.
Even better was how they decided to do the usual stuff anyway.
Guess the last day and big decision made them look back on everything they've been through.
It was the logical thing to do.
I was surprised how they kept their cool, but rock-paper-scissors?
Well, it's the fairest thing to do since they equally deserve the chance to become astronauts.
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Old 2012-08-13, 08:24   Link #444
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I suspect Mizoguchi was portrayed as an epitome of the Japanese school system which heavily favors exam performance and standardized approaches to everything. I think this resentment is pretty much apparent from Mutta's flashbacks, especially the ones where nobody really understood his dreams, or how "practical" people view spending trillions of JPY for a space program.
That's an intriguing insight there, cyth. The endorsement of rock-paper-scissors as a selection technique also seems like a criticism of reliance on measurable "facts" to determine competence. At the end of two weeks of testing, there really isn't a whole lot that differentiates among the members of Mutta's group. Luck seems just as good a predictor of future success as do scores on meaningless tests of arithmetic and typing skills.

A case in point is Mutta's solution to the food problem. All five of them were lucky that he knew how to make udon noodles, hardly a criterion that would come to mind in choosing astronauts. I suspect we'll see in the next couple of episodes that JAXA is more likely to reward those kinds of innovative thinking skills than the ability to provide rote answers. Space exploration is rather a different venture than banking or manufacturing. In Tom Wolfe's The Right Stuff, we see that the notion of recruiting test pilots to be the first astronauts was quite controversial exactly because those pilots were risk-takers and unpredictable. The early managers of the Mercury program would have preferred chimpanzees or, better yet, robots had they been available.

Back in the 1970's MIT economist Lester Thurow wrote about the relative importance of luck, inheritance, and skill in determining the distribution of incomes. Luck, as it turns out, plays a very substantial role. Sometimes it's all about timing. Mitch Kapor, the founder of Lotus Software, became a millionaire because he was the first to market a spreadsheet program, Lotus 1-2-3, that ran on the newly-released IBM PC. He readily admits it was largely a case of being in the right place at the right time.
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Old 2012-08-13, 14:23   Link #445
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The last episode was a bit of a bore for me but this episode was tons better, especially at the end when Yashushi was breaking down. You really could feel the emotion between the group and how they all cared for one another.

It was also great finally seeing Mutta do something genuinely awesome that doesn't half rely on luck. It was a long wait.
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Old 2012-08-13, 20:17   Link #446
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The character development in this series is just great. When the team was formed i was sure Furuya and Nitta would play the antagonists, and in the end, i found myself rooting for them.
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Old 2012-08-14, 09:11   Link #447
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The best part about the episode, apart from Mutta's rise to greatness in my eyes, was the fact that they chose NOT to show how the Rock-Paper-Scissors match turned out, so that we wouldn't see how each person was affected and how we'd feel bias and other emotions for the victor.

Because in essence it doesn't matter who wins in their final decision. They've all already won. They've all shown that they are fully competent individuals with a sense of camaraderie. Rock-Paper-Scissors was just a fun formality to end 2 weeks of enlightened learning about space, each other and most importantly themselves.
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Old 2012-08-14, 10:29   Link #448
cyth
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I wonder, given that JAXA grouped up candidates according to conflicting psyche profiles, luck must have played a major part in how the group dynamic unfolded between Team A's members. It's not as if JAXA favored one set of people to cheat themselves into picking desired candidates instead of candidates who are able to handle themselves, so they had no choice but to group them up as harshly as possible. The success of Team A basically hinged on Mutta not snapping under pressure, with Yasushi's abrasive personality and Nitta's resentful view toward Mutta's advancement to the third exam being the two main causes of aggravation, on top of environmental factors. If we compare that to Team B for a second, Mizoguchi and Makabe weren't that worse off.

As Hoshika says, given how unfavorable the odds look like, only astronauts with luck get to go into space. How everything played out in each group hinged on luck yet again. No test result would matter to a group's success if any of the members snapped on the spot.
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Old 2012-08-15, 02:29   Link #449
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I wonder if group C have strong member? I figure that they are not showing that group because there is one member that is very strong compared to the rest.
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Old 2012-08-15, 08:16   Link #450
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I'm sure it has been discussed earlier in the forum but am I the only one who thinks Mutta is practically a flawless person? Sure, he complains every now and then and sometimes criticises the person that started badmouthing him. So far every potential arguments he gets into, he just brushes them off like nothing and joke around. Whenever he sees a problem arising within the group, he is usually hanging back and observing the source. At the right time he interjects and solves every problems without any setbacks. Or is Mutta happened to be lucky that he wasn't in Team B? Still I think he's just too perfect, very chilled and silly at the same time, in a way it sort of breaks my immersion when this anime itself is very grounded in reality even if the setting is in the near future.

I like the guy Furuya who always seems to argue with Mutta a lot. He has an obvious flaws and unusual characteristics. From the moment he showed up with Teshima, he felt distinct from the other characters. And for some reason I seem to like Kansai dialect, The fact that he speaks, he was already a character easy to notice. I guess I felt he was bit of an underdog compared to the all other members in the Team A. He was always the first one starting the argument and not exactly a leading member in terms of a physical or intellectual prowess.
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Old 2012-08-15, 08:29   Link #451
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I think the reason you hear so many people talk about how luck played a role in their success more so than diligent hard work is because they've been in situations similar to this training. They were surrounded by exceptional individuals who were at least as equally qualified as others, yet still didn't make the cut for reasons typically beyond their control. Mutta had some amazing influences from people in his childhood which helped him to see outside the box in these types of situations. Again, just plain luck.
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Old 2012-08-15, 09:53   Link #452
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I actually somewhat understand the criticism that sometimes Mutta comes off as a bit too perfect. It's not so much that he has flaws but that other characters don't recognize his abilities right away.

That being said Mutta isn't the best looking character and he is a bit neurotic which I think helps off set this a bit.

He might be a bit of an author insert but at the very least I think Mutta's issues are easy to relate to. We all want to think even if we are down on our luck we can rise above that and realize our dreams, hence we want Mutta to ultimately succeed in the end, so sometimes to achieve this Mutta has to either be lucky or come up with an answer no one else thought of and so forth.

Another thing I appreciate it that although Mutta is most likely going to get the girl, Serika herself is relatively normal & down to Earth. So it's not like Mutta is getting a model or a perfect woman which often happens with author inserts. In fact Serika has her own quirks & weirdness to her.

That being said I also really love Furuya because of his flaws. I think sometimes you can explore things with side characters you can't with main characters and Furuya is a reflection of that.
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Old 2012-08-15, 10:39   Link #453
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Let's not forget that Mutta did have a fatal character flaw at the beginning: lack of self-confidence. And it wasn't easy for him to overcome this issue. In fact the first 10 episodes or so were entirely dedicated to this.

The Mutta that we're seeing now, at episode 20, is a perfected and enlightened Mutta. It makes sense that he comes as a little too perfect, but we should never forget all he went through in oder to overcome his flaws. It has been a long road, and the current Mutta is a product of everything that came before.
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Old 2012-08-15, 11:17   Link #454
Kirarakim
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Let's not forget that Mutta did have a fatal character flaw at the beginning: lack of self-confidence
I suppose you can say Mutta's lack of self confidence is a flaw, but you can also say this ties into what I say that other people don't notice Mutta's worth initially (including himself).

Of course there are exceptions to this like Sharon, Mutta's brother, and the guy who helped him get selected on the selection committee, so Mutta certainly has characters rooting for him from the beginning as well.

I don't really find a major problem with Mutta's characterization but I will say the major difference between Mutta and Furuya is Mutta as a main character is instantly likeable, Furuya certainly was not.
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Old 2012-08-15, 11:49   Link #455
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I suppose you can say Mutta's lack of self confidence is a flaw, but you can also say this ties into what I say that other people don't notice Mutta's worth initially (including himself).
It really doesn't matter whether they notice or not. A character flaw is just an obstacle for the character. Taichi from Chihayafuru comes to mind. He also lacked self-confidence and this affected his game prowess. He couldn't win because he thought he wasn't good enough to win (even though he was).

Anyway, my point is that even if it's just a psychological trait that only the audience notice, as long as it becomes an obstacle preventing the character from achieving their goals, it's a character flaw.

Mutta was really screwed up at the beginning but he's getting better now. That's character growth for you, hardly something to complain about I'd think.
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Old 2012-08-15, 12:18   Link #456
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It really doesn't matter whether they notice or not. A character flaw is just an obstacle for the character. Taichi from Chihayafuru comes to mind. He also lacked self-confidence and this affected his game prowess. He couldn't win because he thought he wasn't good enough to win (even though he was).

Anyway, my point is that even if it's just a psychological trait that only the audience notice, as long as it becomes an obstacle preventing the character from achieving their goals, it's a character flaw.

Mutta was flawed at the beginning, but he grew out of it. That''s character growth for you, hardly something to complain about I'd think.
I actually disagree that Taichi and Mutta are that similar.

Taichi might lack self confidence but his growth is a lot slower than Mutta's. Also unlike Mutta, Taichi certainly doesn't always come up with the right answer and he loses perhaps more than he wins. It's the fact that he keeps trying despite theses losses that makes him a compelling character.

Mutta as the main character pretty much always succeeds at what he does, in fact he often finds the answer no one else does. So really Mutta's character flaw did not prevent him from achieving his goals at least not in terms of what the story showed us.

Hence I would still say Mutta comes off as a bit too perfect. Don't get me wrong I really love Mutta as a character and I don't think my complaints about him are a huge detriment to the series but it is what it is. Although as I said above it's an issue with a lot of main characters not just Mutta.
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Old 2012-08-15, 12:30   Link #457
Guardian Enzo
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Too perfect? Mutta, really? Do you not see the agony of self-doubt the guy puts himself through each and every day? Mutta is a psychological mess - even when good things happen to him he feels guilty about it.
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Old 2012-08-15, 13:09   Link #458
Kirarakim
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Too perfect? Mutta, really? Do you not see the agony of self-doubt the guy puts himself through each and every day? Mutta is a psychological mess - even when good things happen to him he feels guilty about it.
I did say he was a bit neurotic

What I am trying to say the "flaws" you guys are saying Mutta has do not actually undermine his abilities in anyway, despite these "flaws" he always succeeds in the end. In fact sometimes he succeeds because of them

I know I said Mutta is a bit of an author insert but I think calling him an audience insert is more accurate. Now don't get me wrong he is a far more compelling character than a "Gary Stu" but many of Mutta's "flaws" I believe are there for the audience to identify with. I don't really notice them working against Mutta.

Space Brothers is about achieving your dreams, what better way to tell this story through a protagonist who lacks self confidence. Mutta wins because that is what we want to see, but because he succeeds it does make him come off a little too perfectly at times (as opposed to saying he's perfect).
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Old 2012-08-15, 13:10   Link #459
SeijiSensei
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I have a question about Sharon. At the outset of the show it seemed she was in a lesbian relationship with the dark-haired woman who wears glasses. Now we hear that she was married. It's certainly possible for both of these to be true, but i found the sudden news about a deceased husband a bit surprising given her earlier characterization. One of the things I liked about how Sharon and her apparent partner's relationship was portrayed is that it seemed so matter-of-fact. Perhaps someone who has read the manga has more insight into this?
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Old 2012-08-15, 14:39   Link #460
Guardian Enzo
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Yeah, sorry - but I find it hard to see a guy in his mid-30s who was fired from his job, lives with his parents and only got the chance he got because of nepotism (mostly) is too perfect or an author insert. Maybe you have to be of a certain age to recognize the pathos in this situation, but the guy is a poster child for regret and self-doubt. The fact that he's getting a second chance is a major basis for the story - and let's not also forget that in several instances, his "success" has quite plainly been due to luck (which has historically not been his friend, also a major theme).
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