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Old 2012-08-07, 18:07   Link #9121
K. Shiruto
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Regarding the causes for the second time Eve melted, I say what I had said a year ago or so.

My theory is that Eve gave Yamada almost all of her Eden Apple. As a result of that, the instant she ended up severely injured, her Doppelganger fragment couldn't hold her body up anymore (remember Eve's body is made entirely wih Doppelganger from what we did see in Blade's memories) and it began to crumble apart.

Why I'm saying that, you ask. Well, it's precisely because the content of the syringe Ishiyama used on and saved Eve's life, it was a dose of Eden Apple.

According with many examples we have seen so far, too much Eden Seed makes your body blast to shreds, even for needlesses (biggest one is Arclight who lost his eye and heart due to an overdose). Eve's body didn't burst out, however.

Of course, the one who has all the answers for our questions is none other than Saten.

Btw, it makes sense that Teruyama and Seth's fragments power increased, coz the spear is made with Arclight's Eden Seed, and we all know his seed is much powerful than of any other needless for reasons we already know.
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Old 2012-08-08, 14:18   Link #9122
Kurohane
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But for her to need that much dose of eden seeds, she would have had to indirectly give Cruz a significant amount of her own. Eden seeds can be lethal to ordinary people and needless, yet Cruz during that time showed no signs of being in danger from the Apple of Eden and still didn't show any signs of awakening. If the others knew eden's seed was already planted in to him due to Eve, then why give him the pill.

Arguments may go to Cruz stopping Aruka by unconciously using his power, but I have my doubts about that. I really am not taking what Blade and Disc said to Cruz about his power wholeheartedly, because its obvious they are still keeping something from him. Also, we haven't really seen Cruz stop anyone else since that one time.
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Old 2012-08-08, 14:44   Link #9123
K. Shiruto
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^Because what Eve did transfer into his body wasn't Eden Seed but probably a good chunk of her body cells. A body without cells is like an engine without fuel, it ceases working. But like I said in the post above, only Saten holds the answers for this.

Blade & Disk did make Yamada take the pill in order to speed up his awakening.
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Old 2012-08-08, 18:33   Link #9124
Avvesione
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
^Because what Eve did transfer into his body wasn't Eden Seed but probably a good chunk of her body cells. A body without cells is like an engine without fuel, it ceases working. But like I said in the post above, only Saten holds the answers for this.
But the thing is, Saten didn't know Eve had Doppelganger until he examined her in the Simeon Tower. Eve's purpose wasn't to have Doppelganger and Eden Seeds in her, so her being a Needless was not her intended purpose. It is just a result of the circumstances and situations that she and Blade have been placed in. And it wasn't until then that Saten had the idea to force Eve to use Doppelganger on Cruz, so whatever his plans were originally must've changed upon learning this information.

The other thing is, how'd they know Eve would melt when she was originally without Eden Seeds within her? The original reason she melted, which was unknown to everyone but Blade and Gido, is that she sustained an injury from Voras (or Volos, given the proper translation). So how'd they know she'd melt and that Eden Seeds would cure her? I mean, something must've happened since the order of events was: they discovered she had Doppelganger, she used it on Cruz, then she was hit by a PF Blast. There's some stuff missing that would piece everything together for us, so until then, we really don't know what the full picture of Eve is. So hopefully we can throw out some guesses and other information and hopefully patch this theory up before we get the final answer later on.
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Old 2012-08-08, 19:54   Link #9125
Kurohane
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And the fact it wasn't the injury itself, since Volos herself was pretty clueless when confronted about it. With the PF blast, Eve was weakened but showed no signs of illness when Cruz and Mio found her. Both events are different yet something must have caused a reaction in Eve's body, and both took time before the melting actually occured. Can we draw up anymore similarities between the two events?
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Old 2012-08-09, 04:09   Link #9126
Avvesione
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
Can we draw up anymore similarities between the two events?
We can, but I think the problem here is that we can't draw similiarities from the causes because we don't know exactly what caused both meltings. Whereas kurusu has a magnificent theory about Eve transferring the Eden Seeds to Cruz and then suffering the lack of Doppelganger to keep her body together because she's a clone (something that fits both occurrences of her melting) it doesn't necessarily match what we saw when Eve melted in the past after suffering a wound that wouldn't heal from Volos.

Perhaps it's something simple, like any damage to Eve's body will cause her body to melt. She never really used Doppelganger after healing Cruz in the Simeon Tower (probably important to note that she did use it to heal everyone else that was defeated by Aruka), and she really couldn't repair herself after PF Blast (could be due to losing Eden Seeds necessary to control/use it), so that might be it.

But why would the clone be so vulnerable to such severe degradation? Perhaps Triple Six knew of it with the Eve Project and that's why they were able to save Eve with Eden Seeds. But why doesn't Blade suffer the same consequences when he is a clone, too, but without Doppelganger? Perhaps we'll learn more about the steel skeleton, reinforcement, and machinery in his body that holds it all together.

(...but wouldn't that alter the morphology when Arclight was comparing body structures at the very beginning and noticing that he and Blade matched? Maybe I'm reading a bit much into that.)
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Old 2012-08-09, 11:34   Link #9127
Kurohane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
We can, but I think the problem here is that we can't draw similiarities from the causes because we don't know exactly what caused both meltings. Whereas kurusu has a magnificent theory about Eve transferring the Eden Seeds to Cruz and then suffering the lack of Doppelganger to keep her body together because she's a clone (something that fits both occurrences of her melting) it doesn't necessarily match what we saw when Eve melted in the past after suffering a wound that wouldn't heal from Volos.
Good point. The reason still remains unknown. I think its a safe bet to assume that both solutions were quick fixes rather than solving the problem as a whole. You know like dealing with the symptoms of a virus rather than healing the body of the virus itself. With that in mind, this is likely to happen again.

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Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
Perhaps we'll learn more about the steel skeleton, reinforcement, and machinery in his body that holds it all together.
Yeah, I want to know more about that. I'm thinking Blade meet with Menogroze for that as well. We saw Menogroze in his memories, so he must have met him before.
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Old 2012-08-09, 12:19   Link #9128
Ynot
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My idea about what's going on with Eve has a bunch of assumptions, but at the moment this is what I think has happened.

When creating a mate for Adam they had to make sure Eve's body would be able to deal with Edenseed since her child would probably have a lot of those, so her body already has a certain amount of Edenseed within it if only to check whether her body could take it. I'm theorizing, just like the Adam clones, her body wasn't 100 percent compatible. Instead of her right eye and heart(like Arclight), her brain got destroyed. But lucky enough they had a spare, Kasumi's.

In Memory-world Eve didn't just started to melt. It started with her wound (inflicted by Voras) not being able to heal. I think the moment they inserted Kasumi's human brain the remaining Eden cells would hold the body together, fix wounds etc but slowly diminished untill they were all used up and Eve's body started to melt. Her human brain wasn't able to replace any of those Eden cells with new ones. I'm guessing Blade's brain-part also had a healthy helping of Eden cells which were transplanted together with Doppleganger and helped her reshape her body.

The second time she melted was after having been through a tough time, I presume relying heavily on her Eden cells(shapeshifting like crazy because of the super concentrated dero doron drink canister implanted in her body and healing wounded comrades). Again she ran out of eden cells and started to melt once more.

This Time Ishiyama&Saten came to the rescue injecting some Eden cells and rescued Eve. This pretty much means Eve will run out of those sooner or later and start to melt again.

When I first saw Teruyama's transformation into his "demon" form and the Eden cells regeneration capability I started to suspect there are very strong ties between Doppleganger and Eden cells which inspired me to come up with the Eve theory above.
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Old 2012-08-12, 14:06   Link #9129
Avvesione
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Hmmm... what I'm wondering now is, what is it about Kasumi's body that allowed her to be compatible with Eve N.? We figure they had 13 failures of Eves before Eve N., so it's understandable that the Eve Project had trouble similar to the Adam Project, but I'm curious what happened in those experiments compared to the final one in which, we think, Kasumi's brain was used to solve the mystery.

It's too bad Gido isn't around since he seems to be the only one who really knows what's going on. I think it'd be pretty awesome to see Blade learn Blackout Invoke and then use it on Gido to learn the truth that way or something.
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Old 2012-08-13, 00:16   Link #9130
Kurohane
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Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
I think it'd be pretty awesome to see Blade learn Blackout Invoke and then use it on Gido to learn the truth that way or something.
Wouldn't be surprised. If he can move out of the way of Teruyama's Vulcan Shock Ignition and let Gido get hit, he can surely do that. First, he has to find Ishiyama to learn his fragment... and Gido to use it on. Where is Gido anyway?
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Old 2012-08-14, 01:12   Link #9131
Avvesione
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
Where is Gido anyway?
No one knows, thought judging from the art mistakes at the end of Chapter 89, he seems to be alive and well and still on the 'good' side.

Then again, the way he was drawn (never talking, never showing his eyes) and the position he was in originally (defending while facing blade) might indicate it was a clone of Gido or something spying on them (which is how Saten and Ishiyama were able to find Eve). If that were the case, then Gido would be with Simeon right now, either as a captive or if he switched sides and still worked for the Adam and Eve Projects (just keeping it all under wraps, like Saten).
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Old 2012-08-16, 03:30   Link #9132
Avvesione
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Also, figured I'd start one other topic before we get to chapter day (the 18th this month), so here it is:

Anyone else think we might see another Stigmata again soon, especially given all the characters fighting right now? Anyone have any thoughts or ideas on what each character's increased powers might be? Might be fun to throw those ideas around now before the chapter is published, especially if we see a new Stigmata or two in the next chapter.
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Old 2012-08-16, 14:02   Link #9133
Kurohane
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Since Blade and co. are fighting Riru, good chances are we'll see her stigmata. I bet that is how she is able to control that many objects at will, and even stop Agnishiwattas' fast molecule vibration. Since Blade knows Aginishiwattas and the Forth Wave now, he might surprise us by using their stigmata as well. We still don't really know the special powers of Aruka's fragment when using stigmata.

If we ever go back to Seth and Solva vs. Kafka and Uten, this is my personal theory, but Seth may be stronger from the eden seeds, but she doesn't have stigmata like Kafka, but Solva is the one who has one. Magnetical force is also one of the four primary forces. One of her increased abilities may be to turn whaterver objects she wants into a magnet. Instead of the usually drawing and repeling things from herself. She will be able to turn any two or more objects into a positve or negative force at will, and either draw them together or repel them.
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:18   Link #9134
K. Shiruto
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^Blade doesn't have any stigmata since he lost his. Arclight has all of the 9 he unlocked because... well, because he's God, that is.

As for the fight between Seth & Solva and Kafka & Uten, just let the real Kafka enter the stage and see how they turn the tables on.

Yes, I've kept saying the real Kafka, the one who thanks to Yamada avoided his fate, must be somewhere around the Blackspot now.
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:30   Link #9135
Leidolfr
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What I wonder is if in the next chapter we will see the intentions of Saten, this character is the most intriguing as it is the most mysterious of all.

There is also the possibility that Cruz has some stigmata, or at least so I think.
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Old 2012-08-17, 02:36   Link #9136
Xiammes
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What I wonder is if in the next chapter we will see the intentions of Saten, this character is the most intriguing as it is the most mysterious of all.

There is also the possibility that Cruz has some stigmata, or at least so I think.
Saten is the man of interest at the moment in the series, depending on how he acts, he can change the entire Arc with just a few scenes.

Its highly possible Cruz has a stigmata, if he didn't have one before, he certainly does now.
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Old 2012-08-18, 01:08   Link #9137
Avvesione
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Well, looks like Needless is back this month. Looks like another chapter of Riru and Cruz and stuff, though. Really hoping we can get back to the other fights soon but it's looking more and more doubtful as we continue on with this storyline.
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Old 2012-08-18, 01:31   Link #9138
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I am assuming that some crazy plot twist will happen during the Set and Solva fights, and they will appear and we will get some flash back chapters.
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Old 2012-08-18, 01:48   Link #9139
Avvesione
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I'm beginning to think that myself. Hope not, but it looks more and more likely with Cruz and everyone progressing so deep and so quickly through the Simeon building that their fights are likely already over now.
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Old 2012-08-18, 04:05   Link #9140
Ynot
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I expect a Seto&Solva to make an appearance this chapter, but only to save Blade&co from Riru. Maybe they'll fight her so Blade and the others can move on and follow Arclight or perhaps just buy them enough time to let Yamada come up with some sort of tactic against Riru. I certainly don't expect to see the fight between them and Kafka&Uten anymore unless it's a very short flashback.

In a lot of situations where the good guys were in a pickle reinforcements were introduced to turn the tide. Seto&Solva are close by and even have powers which look like Riru's(ability to manipulate objects from a distance without touching those). I'd prefer to be surprised though and see Saten jump out and do something incredible or something.
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