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Old 2012-08-13, 18:17   Link #941
Arya
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I'm glad that I'm not the only one that felt that way regarding the males cast. I'm not going that far saying that they are "inferior species" as Enzo said, but simply because I'm holding back for now and even because, among many other good points, Tari Tari excels portraying the interactions between the cast, well the female cast. In every single aspect or details. Nothing seems a cliché. The Konatsu and Sawa implicit understanding teasing Wein felt so natural that I can't say that it was mean, it was truly fun (but Sawa "get over" looked a bit over the line). Later on, when Taichi tried to say something appropriate to Sawa, the girls reaction felt natural (and fun again, I loved how they reacted), defending their friend they were tightening their female bonds with the newcomer, understandable, but the last scene, the boys alone and clueless, felt intentional. Mixing all these subtlety with the constant attitude of the girls in avoiding Wein (and again, I find it very understandable, even if mean in a very realistic way) or the total lack of interest of the male cast toward the "girl world", well the result isn't that far from what Enzo has already well pointed out. The fact that Taichi and Wein don't interact either with each other doesn't help. And Taichi gets worse episode by episode. He is working too much in KC.
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Old 2012-08-13, 20:16   Link #942
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Originally Posted by Uberchu View Post
And it's not like there hasn't been foreshadowing. Wien had his letter to his sister and Tanaka with badminton.
What? Yang is his sister? When was this disclosed? I must have been sneezing or something.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I hate to say it, but I sometimes even get a sense that the guys are just being used by the girls...
Aren't they? Wasn't that established with the badminton game? The only reason the guys are on board is because the girls knew Taichi could sing, and Wien didn't know what he was getting into. So the girls suckered them into joining the choir club. Other than that, the girls don't seem to give a rat's patootie about the guys (okay, yes, just once Konatsu and Sawa showed some sympathy for badminton boy). If only three members were required to form a club, you know darn well that none of the members would be male.

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Originally Posted by Arya View Post
The fact that Taichi and Wein don't interact either with each ...
Actually, I'm not sure that's true. The guys have, so far, been pretty much ignored by the writers that it might seem that they don't interact, but there has been so little screen time with just them together that we just don't know. However, they must have had some sort of interaction to come up with that weird exercise, and that exercise, in and of itself, shows them interacting. And I don't think it's the type of exercise that two guys would do if they didn't get along.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
...Still, in spite of this, I do really like Tari Tari. But breaking down this gender barrier and/or getting more spotlight for the guys really is the main challenge facing the show. How it handles that challenge will, for me, determine if Tari Tari is just another pretty good slice of high school life show, or if Tari Tari is truly something special.
Great comments, Triple_R. I also agree that what will determine whether I put this anime on the top shelf will be if the writers give [almost] equal time and equal importance to the guys. The way the five of them have been portrayed so far in the anime is not how they are portrayed in the OP. Watching the OP you would think that this is one great bunch of five friends, instead of the great bunch of three girl friends and two guys they needed to fill out the club membership, which is what we've seen so far.
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Old 2012-08-13, 21:40   Link #943
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Although the drama wheel was a bit on the formulaic side in dividing character troubles into what seems to be defined arcs without much break, it was still a fun episode. Wakana joining the group was a nice thing to see and well reflected in the ED, and apparently beneath Sawa's very serious exterior lies a passion in pursuing a dream that her parents are very much opposed to. So the lack of communication led to some rather risky and self destructive behavior, and she's knocked out.

As for the guys, yea, but then again this is PA works and they have yet to generate interesting guys outside of Angel Beats. Kind of a pity this anime is only 13 episodes, as the time could be well spent in their direction.
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Old 2012-08-13, 22:29   Link #944
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I am obviously biased but Sawa arc got more attention from me while Wakana's bored me to death.

Sawa shouldn't have needed to diet. She looks slim enough. Even though she is taller than the other girls she is still shorter than the guys so she should still be light enough for a jockey.

Being a jockey is risky but successful ones can really pull in the bucks. However, considering that Sawa is a girl, it will be hard for her to pull it off.

So far all of them "failed" at what they want to achieve so Sawa probably have to give up professional jockeying for the time being.
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Old 2012-08-13, 23:14   Link #945
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Hmmm... Sawa's mini-arc. Been dreading this despite liking many more of Hayamin's roles than the other two female seiyuus' roles combined. And while it wasn't as bad as I expected, i feel it's still the weakest of the mini-arcs so far.

As for the 'harsh' treatment of the boys, I don't mind it too much. I've seen worse happen to the female cast of other series, and much more often to boot. And here they actually have reason to, considering that the three girls are established by now to be close knit friends while the guys are 'just there', as evidenced by the girls being the only ones going to the musical.
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Old 2012-08-14, 00:06   Link #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAnomaly View Post
Sawa shouldn't have needed to diet. She looks slim enough.
Website has her listed as 55Kg, I have a female friend that made an attempt at being a jockey,she was told to keep her weight down under 50Kg,she generally had it at around 45 Kg to have a safe margin.
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Old 2012-08-14, 00:30   Link #947
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Website has her listed as 55Kg, I have a female friend that made an attempt at being a jockey,she was told to keep her weight down under 50Kg,she generally had it at around 45 Kg to have a safe margin.
Yeah, I think the issue is that she just doesn't have the right body type to do that job. She's fairly tall, and the ideal jockey is small/petite/light. Given her height, trying to force herself to be that much lighter isn't healthy for her. Of course, it's not her fault that she was born that way... but it's something she's going to have to accept. That said, I don't know if that's the only sort of job she could have that involves horses. I think the most painful thing to admit for her would be that her dad is right (but I do think he's being a bit too overbearing/insistent about it, even if it's ostensibly out of worry/concern).
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Old 2012-08-14, 00:51   Link #948
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55kg? I see. I though she looked lighter than that. From her profile she is 1.67m which is reasonable for that weight. She really is on the upper limit for a jockey.

Perhaps she could go for equestrianism instead but its probably even harder to make a living out of it.
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Old 2012-08-14, 01:52   Link #949
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As for the guys, yea, but then again this is PA works and they have yet to generate interesting guys outside of Angel Beats. Kind of a pity this anime is only 13 episodes, as the time could be well spent in their direction.
I wouldn't expect a strong focus even if the episode count were doubled. The target audience is clear, and the tendency is to avoid dwelling too much on male characters (the rationale is that viewers don't particularly care who they are and may even be annoyed if they receive too much focus).

In terms of plot, Tari Tari may seem like a drama aimed at a wider teenage audience. However, that isn't the kind of show they're making.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R
But then, on the other hand, maybe Tari Tari's writers are aware of this gender barrier like I am, and a major future plot point will be tearing town that barrier.
Is that barrier abnormal within Japanese society? High school romances are discouraged due to the pressure of getting into a good university, and my understanding is that there's less mingling between male and female classmates (that would be my observation too, but I've only met with a class of Japanese students on two occasions, both well over a decade ago. Even during lunch, boys and girls kept to opposite sides of the room).
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Old 2012-08-14, 02:10   Link #950
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In terms of plot, Tari Tari may seem like a drama aimed at a wider teenage audience. However, that isn't the kind of show they're making.
The main target audience might be the otaku as usual, but this anime airs on Saturday at 10:30pm, which isn't what you'd usually call late night IMO. With this slot plus a manga adaptation in Gangan Joker, which is a pretty mainstream manga mangazine, I think they are going for a wider audience than just the otaku. At least that's the impression I've got.
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Old 2012-08-14, 04:20   Link #951
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I wouldn't expect a strong focus even if the episode count were doubled. The target audience is clear, and the tendency is to avoid dwelling too much on male characters (the rationale is that viewers don't particularly care who they are and may even be annoyed if they receive too much focus).

In terms of plot, Tari Tari may seem like a drama aimed at a wider teenage audience. However, that isn't the kind of show they're making.
Oh, I understand this quite well. It's fairly standard for the genre, but then again a lot of shows, not just anime, don't really spread the development around fairly. But still, I can understand the concern even if it doesn't block my own enjoyment.
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Old 2012-08-14, 04:22   Link #952
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What?! NO?! Screw Taichi! No one wants his Kokoro Connect White Knight ass here! hahaha.
I get KC flashbacks too. Let's call him Badminton-kun, then. We should pick a first name too...How about Racquet? Or we could go with Tanaka I guess. But Badminton-kun sums up his character better
I liked how Wakana got in on the joke, it was a great subtle way to show she's a part of the group now. Also, didn't anyone think Tanaka was a bit of an ass for not telling Wien they were joking? Survival of the fittest, I guess.

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I was way more annoyed when the choir girl came in and told Tanaka to 'Move'. If that was me, I'd be like, 'Make me'...or, as Wakana's dad put it, 'pretty please'. Instead he just upped and moved, chet. I mean, you could obviously tell she was being a b!tch.
Yeah, I was like that too at that scene! Don't be such a dog, Badminton-kun! You weren't even in the way! Granted, everyone was pretty passive during that scene.
I liked how one of the girls was being friendly towards Konatsu while the other two were still obviously holding a grudge. I wouldn't be surprised if those two didn't need anything from that classroom and just came with some poor excuse to throw an insult. Konatsu tried to show good will but she wasn't too surprised to see that the girls were like that.

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The main target audience might be the otaku as usual, but this anime airs on Saturday at 10:30pm, which isn't what you'd usually call late night IMO. With this slot plus a manga adaptation in Gangan Joker, which is a pretty mainstream manga mangazine, I think they are going for a wider audience than just the otaku. At least that's the impression I've got.
No, this show definitively isn't aimed at otakus. It seems like a show for both genders, even more for girls. Maybe it's the lack of fanservice or lack of anime cliches or the slow pace or just that the girls seem more natural than they do in other anime aimed at males. For instance, I think the kind of teasing they do here wouldn't pass well in a show aimed at males because it shows a part of reality where even nice girls can be a bit mean sometimes as opposed to caricatured girls who are only mean (read:violent) towards their crush or their worst enemy.

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As for the 'harsh' treatment of the boys, I don't mind it too much. I've seen worse happen to the female cast of other series, and much more often to boot. And here they actually have reason to, considering that the three girls are established by now to be close knit friends while the guys are 'just there', as evidenced by the girls being the only ones going to the musical.
Pretty much this. The girls have strength in numbers and familiarity. The two guys aren't even close friends. The behavior coming from that just seems natural to me.

Last edited by Blonto; 2012-08-14 at 07:24.
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Old 2012-08-14, 04:55   Link #953
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What?! NO?! Screw Taichi! No one wants his Kokoro Connect White Knight ass here! hahaha.
Speaking of the Taichis this season, I'm still tripping over Taichi from Chihayafuru. He's still my favorite tho.
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Old 2012-08-14, 05:41   Link #954
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This has been the first episode of Tari Tari that left me unsatisfied. Several things were just not right, or not in the right place imho.

1) The show should be about a choir and its members correct? At least so it was for the first four episodes. Then it took an alternate way to illustrate Wakana's background, but that was necessary because Wakana is supposed to become the choir's leader (and her arc was really good too).
Now there's another alternate way, which feels much less necessary, and as a result, the "choir and sometimes badminton club" plot is frozen.

2) Sawa's story felt rushed, shallow and out of the blue. It just doesn't blend with the rest. Also ending the episode with a girl falling from a running horse (which per se would be far more dangerous than the few scratches she seems to get judging from the preview, but let's leave it at that) and then running a very catchy tune such as the ED, again didn't sound appropriate. Speaking of which, making a different preview with less blatant views of Sawa perhaps would have made for some thrilling. It's contradictory, first they show her seemingly in grave danger, one minute later they show her with some scratches and bandages.

3) Some poor choices in dialogues and writing. No need for fanservice in the scene when Sawa was confronting his dad. It lessened the (already weak because not supported by much foretelling) impact of the scene. Also the misunderstanding about Sawa being in love, way too forced thus cheap.

4) As pointed out already, the two males members seems to be there as accessories more than else. I won't venture in how the girls treat them but I did notice that when they had tickets for that concert, they were all happy to go together, just the 3 of them. None of the three suggested the males should go too (if it was a sort of "see and learn activity" for the choir, then why leave two members out? If they were short of two tickets they could have bought them).

On the whole, this episode represented two steps back for the series, and can compromise what's to follow. The sooner they'll be back on the main plot, the better. In this episode I'm saving some interactions and the usual Konatsu moments, like when she forced Wakana to self introduce. 6/10
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Old 2012-08-14, 06:10   Link #955
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Speaking of the Taichis this season, I'm still tripping over Taichi from Chihayafuru. He's still my favorite tho.
All other Taichis are lesser Taichis compared to Chihayafuru's Taichi.
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Old 2012-08-14, 06:15   Link #956
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It's contradictory, first they show her seemingly in grave danger, one minute later they show her with some scratches and bandages.
When she fell off the horse, and lay on the ground I had the thought on the next episode she would be on a hospital bed with dextrose bottle. But the preview shows only slight injuries. I guess she's tougher than she looks?
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Old 2012-08-14, 07:02   Link #957
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Actually, I'm not sure that's true. The guys have, so far, been pretty much ignored by the writers that it might seem that they don't interact, but there has been so little screen time with just them together that we just don't know. However, they must have had some sort of interaction to come up with that weird exercise, and that exercise, in and of itself, shows them interacting. And I don't think it's the type of exercise that two guys would do if they didn't get along.
I usually don't find the male gags fun in this series and that "interaction" looked a bit stupid if I had to say, not something two sentient people would have come up to. That alone told me that they are nearer to Laurel and Hardy (well, I'm even counting the "clueless scene" in this episode where I don't remember if Laure Wein scratched his head or not) than being friends.

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4) As pointed out already, the two males members seems to be there as accessories more than else. I won't venture in how the girls treat them but I did notice that when they had tickets for that concert, they were all happy to go together, just the 3 of them. None of the three suggested the males should go too (if it was a sort of "see and learn activity" for the choir, then why leave two members out? If they were short of two tickets they could have bought them).
Right, I forgot in my previous post about the concert as an evidence (again realistic) of a sort of subtle (even not so much) intention of the authors.

Anyways, I'll stop talking about the boys, I don't even like them

I have to agree with those who found this episode less entertaining even if Sawa-sama was the focus. I mean, I agree with Pellissier, it felt rushed and out of the blue. Anyways I side with Sawa's father. But probably because I'm totally ignorant on Jockey's career, so it looked not down-to-earth. Thought reinforced by Sawa's forced diet, implying her body is not suited, anyways.
But, but as always the girls interaction were lovely, Konatsu, that scouldrel, and Sawa, play fair please, Wein is such an easy target. And then as usual Konatsu completely getting it wrong, always unable to read the mood, about Sawa motivations. She is such a scoundrel, I finally got Sawa's family urge slapping her

About the Taichis, now I'm getting curious to watch Chihayafuru just to see him eheheh. Even if following three series with three Taichi at the same time would be a bit chaotic
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Old 2012-08-14, 07:35   Link #958
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Sawa's "get over" looked a bit over the line.
In Japanese it was "Sai wa mou ii" which is more along the lines of "Enough with the rhino". To me it sounded like something you'd say to friends when they push a joke one time too many.
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Old 2012-08-14, 07:44   Link #959
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Even though I've been loving Tari Tari, I concur with the people who said this episode wasn't very good. There were numerous problems including the following:

1. Near the start of the episode, three of the school vocal ensemble members including the leader and piano player walks in and the leader starts abusing Kontasu and the choir club as a whole. I find the timing of this "drama" quite off. This should have come up anywhere between episode 2 to 4 where the formation and maintenance of the choir club was the main issue (alongside breaking Wakana's shell).

2. After the Wakana arc, Sawa's drama regarding her "future career" seems very insignificant. Losing a mother >> Sawa's future career in terms of significance and because of that the near melodrama felt forced and for the first time in Tari Tari did not feel genuine. I feel as if this arc should have come before Wakana's if it was to have any impact.

Also the change in Sawa's character seemed way too drastic considering the fact that this whole wanting to become a jockey and the father being against it would have been something that's been going on for a while. So why did Sawa have to "explode" and be mega angsty now out of all times. Also the diet... shouldn't Sawa have known about jockeys having to be lightweight already? Why diet all of sudden? This should have mentioned early on in the series, much like Wakana's "past" was foreshadowed even when Konatsu was taking the spotlight (ep 1-2 in particular). It seems like there's a Sawa's arc for the sake of making a Sawa arc. Not very genuine at all.

3. What's with the fanservice of Sawa undressing in front of her father which results the obvious shot of her "massive rack". Tari Tari doing poorly in DVD pre-orders or something? I remember Hanasaku Iroha doing really badly in preorders until that terrible episode 3 too after which it spiked up. Still makes me mad to this day. Is it similar marketing scheme? Either way, I absolutely do not approve because that scene was random and pointless other than trying to give pervy otakus a boner.

4. Konatsu thinking Sawa is lovestruck made me somewhat roll my eyes. How cliche and unfunny. Characters misunderstanding X is in love with Y is a staple cliche in romance anime but Tari Tari is not a romance anime. Stop trying to feed shippers because once again it's not genuine and feels if you're desperate.

5. The way PA budget-cutted again in the way they didn't even bother showing us what was happening on stage when the three girls were watching that musical made me chuckle... in a sad way. Cmon PA, I know the budget for this series is probably not even half of what Hanasaku Iroha got but at least make some creative ways to perform budget cuts instead of ones that are complete and obvious eyesores. Heck resort to CGI for the musical performance if you have to. It's better than nothing.

As for the male treatment as a whole in Tari Tari, maybe my expectations are dirt low in regards to the issue due to watching so many animes where male characters are treated like punching bags, that male characters not getting development at all (or getting very little) is heaven compared to say getting beaten to death by a tsundere. My personal threshold is that verbal abuse or male character development absence is tolerable, it's when things get physical or the male characters made a complete joke of that I started to get annoyed. It's why I'm not really minding it here compared to Kokoro Connect which is another currently airing anime where male treatment has been criticized where
Spoiler for Comparison of Male Character Treatment in Kokoro Connect:
Granted, the male character treatment in Tari Tari isn't that great either. Like I said, I just have low expectations.

On the other hand we still have 6 episodes left, which leaves possibility for a Wien and/or Taichi arc in the future. I'm leaning more towards Wien since Taichi's issue has been somewhat "resolved" (the badminton segment in episode 5), whilst there seems to subtle hints throughout the series that Wien is not dealing with his adjustment to Japan very well and that he's feeling quite lonely. This is especially shown in the various letters to Yang he's been sending and his desire to be a "hero".

But yeh, I would say this was easily Tari Tari's weakest episode so far. It wasn't offensive or anything, just very unimpressive, cliche without the execution to back it up (unlike previous eps where despite being a "generic premise" presentation has been head over heels compared to other animes of similar genre) and for the first time, forced and not genuine (Sawa drama). If the average of Tari Tari has been about 8-8.5/10 so far (sounds about right to me), then this episode was a 5.5-6/10.
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Old 2012-08-14, 07:57   Link #960
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Originally Posted by Blonto View Post
In Japanese it was "Sai wa mou ii" which is more along the lines of "Enough with the rhino". To me it sounded like something you'd say to friends when they push a joke one time too many.
I guess I understood what Sawa was implying, but it felt a bit harsh anyway. Now that you mention it, but did Wein got the joke or really believed about the story of the rhino? Because I sincerely got the latter.
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