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Old 2012-07-24, 16:50   Link #141
aigomorla
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I dont remember anywhere stating

Spoiler:
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Old 2012-07-24, 18:52   Link #142
Berserkguard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
My thoughts on the whole Sachi stuff.

Spoiler for obvious novel spoilers, beware:
^ This. Pretty much how I feel. Although, it would have made for an interesting plot if the second part of what you said actually happened

I really like Kirito so far. Seems like a nice level-headed hero figure.
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Last edited by Berserkguard; 2012-07-24 at 18:53. Reason: Edited post to conform more to character discussion
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Old 2012-07-27, 11:42   Link #143
willx
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Originally Posted by Berserkguard View Post
^ This. Pretty much how I feel. Although, it would have made for an interesting plot if the second part of what you said actually happened

I really like Kirito so far. Seems like a nice level-headed hero figure.
I have to admit that I like Kirito too. He's an average boy that's a good gamer, who reluctantly becomes a hero and works hard, overcoming hardships and dealing with personal trauma and tragedy.

With regards to Sachi, he makes it clear they didn't have a "romantic relationship" during their time together, but it's pretty obvious that they were getting closer and closer. She was a shy and timid girl after all. It's truly a heart breaking tale.
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Old 2012-08-13, 18:35   Link #144
erneiz_hyde
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Hello, I'm an anime-only viewer, and I am interested in Kirito's character. I have a few questions for the novel-readers regarding this. I don't mind spoilers, but I think this could be answered without revealing too much of the plot.

Can you describe/summarize what 'flaws' this Kirito character has?

Anything, like his Achilles' Heels or his Kryptonite, fundamental or even potentially fatal personality problems. Something like how Sou Touma from QED is a super genius but can't handle human relationships, or how Aoi Toori from Horizon needs to be constantly happy or risk being dead the next instant.

He's a good character, and I like him, but put too much goodness it will make a character somewhat unbalanced. Likewise if a character has too much flaw and no real development.

Maybe I should get to actually read the novels, but as of now, I don't really have the will to read any LNs (happens all the time. I'm moody in how I watch my favorite anime as well, often withholding an entire season or two), but this Kirito is certainly amusing so I'd like to know more about him soon.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 2012-08-13, 20:38   Link #145
M1sFyr3
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Spoiler for Previous question:


Well I don't really see it as a fault, but he blames himself for actions he did to save others. Such as him having to hurt some people in order for self defense or to save a friend, and then thinking he could have acted otherwise and prevented damage. He tends to then think of these actions on occasions and it has a psychological impact on him.

Also not really a problem, but Kirito gets close to other girls with out knowing it. It's just his personality to be nice to people but he ends up getting the girls jealous at each other at times

All of these are realistic and the author of the LN does a great job developing his character (in my view.) He also learns to solve some of his smaller flaws along his journeys. There isn't too much flaw so he is a well balanced character.
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Old 2012-08-13, 21:53   Link #146
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"Too nice" and "too heroic" hardly count as a flaws.
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Old 2012-08-13, 22:34   Link #147
Krono
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Spoiler for Previous question:


He doesn't really have some singular, defining, all consuming flaw like you seem to be looking for.

At the start, he ditched Klein, the only friend he had in the game, because he didn't want to take on the responsibility for protecting Klein's friends, and the responsibility for their death if one of them was killed while he was trying to lead them to the next town. He left everyone else in town, the majority of which didn't even know the basics he'd showed Klein, to their own devices out of his desire for maximizing his chances for self preservation.

His reluctance to reveal his level and his full knowledge to the guild he joined resulted in them being overconfident, and ending up in a trap he could survive, but they couldn't, and he couldn't protect them either.

Small stuff like that is his flaws.
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Old 2012-08-13, 23:15   Link #148
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1sFyr3 View Post
There isn't too much flaw so he is a well balanced character.
Actually a well balanced character would have more important flaws to compensate for his/her strengths. Kirito lacks that sort of depth. He's an entertaining character no doubt, but I don't think he's well balanced. The author could definitely put a little more thought into this IMO.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-08-14 at 03:31.
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Old 2012-08-14, 01:58   Link #149
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Spoiler for Kirito the sis-con?:


Or obviously Kirito just loves his imouto
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Old 2012-08-14, 02:03   Link #150
Netto Azure
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Nope, Kirito definitely is a Sis-con.

From Sachi to Scilica, the signs were there. Lawl

As for Kirito's flaws...I agree with some of the posts above. Although I consider him The Ace...which is why people are attracted to him heh.
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Old 2012-08-14, 03:22   Link #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureWrath View Post
Or obviously Kirito just loves his imouto
He loves his imouto (more of a cousin) as one... It only proves how he cares for his family.
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Old 2012-08-14, 06:40   Link #152
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krono
At the start, he ditched Klein, the only friend he had in the game, because he didn't want to take on the responsibility for protecting Klein's friends, and the responsibility for their death if one of them was killed while he was trying to lead them to the next town. He left everyone else in town, the majority of which didn't even know the basics he'd showed Klein, to their own devices out of his desire for maximizing his chances for self preservation.
Eh, wasn't it Klein who refused Kirito's offer and not Kirito who ditched him? Klein refused because he still had friends in the town center. If going by the anime alone, it seems originally Kirito really wanted to take Klein along with him. Though arguably, Klein leaving is probably a even 'good' thing, because Klein could teach his friends what Kirito told him, therefore increasing their chance of survival.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureWrath
Or obviously Kirito just loves his imouto
Well, as long as it's not Yosuga no Sora level of love, I'd say that does not count as his flaw . Like GenjiChan said, it's probably more of a familial love, which is a positive trait.

As for being a chick magnet...has there been any serious drama occurring because of this? I'm guessing not, and it's your typical heroines-battling-for-hero's-attention mishaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
"Too nice" and "too heroic" hardly count as a flaws.
Maybe not, but these are often symptoms for some flaws. That's why I thought perhaps there's some underlying condition or some past to why Kirito behaves the way he is, like how Haruyuki of Accel World becomes very good at gaming as an escape from reality. Though it doesn't seem to be the case as of yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun
Actually a well balanced character would have more important flaws to compensate for his/her strengths. Kirito lacks that sort of depth. He's an entertaining character no doubt, but I don't think he's well balanced. The author could definitely put a little more thought into this IMO.
For the record, I don't think a balanced character is absolutely critical to a good story, nor does I think an unbalanced character absolutely ruins everything. It's mostly the handling and the genre of the story.

I mean, shows like Star Driver is a ridiculous pile of unbalanced characters, but I enjoyed it anyways because it obviously doesn't take itself seriously either.

Spoiler for oot rant:


So, if Kirito turns out to be the near-perfect main character with little to no significant flaws (which seems to be the case judging from our fellow users' reply here), it won't necessarily ruin the entire show for me, but it still depends on how the character Kirito is being handled.

I guess I'll just continue to watch the anime for now, and hope that occasional mood bursts swing me to finally read the LN (though honestly if I'm going to read anything, it'll probably be Horizon first. Good thing I can read Japanese! )

EDIT: Somehow I suddenly get the idea that SAO would be an even more interesting story if it has multiple protagonists for the different arcs, maybe making Kirito occasionally appear as the legendary badass that the different protagonists either respect or hate or whatever. Similar to how Mai in Mai Otome was handled. This way, Kirito can stay as The Ace but not so dragged on it became like the case I put in the spoiler. Though, since I don't read the LN, thus I don't know the structure of it, so I don't know if this approach is possible for the author to implement.
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Old 2012-08-14, 07:17   Link #153
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
As for being a chick magnet...has there been any serious drama occurring because of this? I'm guessing not, and it's your typical heroines-battling-for-hero's-attention mishaps
Spoiler for LN spoilers:
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Old 2012-08-14, 07:49   Link #154
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
For the record, I don't think a balanced character is absolutely critical to a good story, nor does I think an unbalanced character absolutely ruins everything. It's mostly the handling and the genre of the story.
I would argue that but this thread is not the right place so I won't. Although, I do think you don't need a story to be truly good (writing wise) in order for it to be entertaining and even successful.

SAO is really entertaining for me and I know it sells a lot, but the writing on the character department is lacking, even for the shounen genre. What's really good about SAO is the setting. The attention to detail and that sort of thing. If the characters were as good you would have something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
EDIT: Somehow I suddenly get the idea that SAO would be an even more interesting story if it has multiple protagonists for the different arcs
Yeah, a sort of ensemble cast scenario (like in Horizon) would probably suit this kind of setting better. Tori is as much the protagonist of his story as Kirito is his, but having the spotlight scattered amount the whole cast makes quite the difference.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-08-14 at 08:03.
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Old 2012-08-14, 07:49   Link #155
Znail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Spoiler for Space:

Can you describe/summarize what 'flaws' this Kirito character has?
One problem is that several of his flaws are so common among male anime characters that many anime viewers wont even notice them. The most obvious one is his lack of experience with girls. He even mentions it himself in the anime and it bothers him a fair amount. Now, it should be obvious that it isn't really a big problem as the girls he has met so far haven't had anything against him. So, he ends up being mostly dense towards their feelings, wich is turn is such a common troupe that it will just slip by without notice. But note that this isn't just some plot point to keep a harem around, but rather an actual personality trait. It also shows up in him fairly often making Asuna angry with him due to him saying the wrong things. This once again is easy to just overlook as it's so common with tsundere girls getting angry that you overlook that it's actually Kirito that stepped on a mine.

Another minor issue is his looks. It's so common with girly looking male heroes that anime viewers most likely doesn't even notice it anymore. But note that Kirito had a rather different looking avatar originally, before the mirrors changed him and everyone else. Kirito doesn't like to be mistaken for a girl, which has happened to him several times. This is actually why he originally approached Asuna, she was hooded and he assumed she was a feminine looking guy like himself.

But other then that so should it be noted that he is looking extra good right now as he is essentially a computer geek that likes to play games and SOA is right up his alley. That he is more of a hardcore player then most does make him look pretty cool here. But he did fail in kendo in real life and obviously so will a skill at computer games have a limited use in real life. It's just that right now so is SOA the entire world, so being good at it makes for a cool looking guy.

It's also worth noting that while he is good at fighting in SOA so does he have few other skills in there. He had to ask his friend too appraise the weapon, he doesn't have the cooking skill of Asuna, etc. He is a true powerplayer in that he only learns skills that has an actual use in hunting.
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Old 2012-08-14, 09:06   Link #156
Krono
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Eh, wasn't it Klein who refused Kirito's offer and not Kirito who ditched him? Klein refused because he still had friends in the town center. If going by the anime alone, it seems originally Kirito really wanted to take Klein along with him. Though arguably, Klein leaving is probably a even 'good' thing, because Klein could teach his friends what Kirito told him, therefore increasing their chance of survival.
Part of that is information getting lost in the novel->anime transfer, but no it wasn't simply a matter of Klein refusing his offer. Klein bringing up his friends being in the plaza was essentially him saying "I can't leave them, can we bring them along as well?" and he correctly identified Kirito's hesitation as "No, we can't." And rather than change his plans, Kirito parted ways with Klein. Not without regret, which the attempted to portray with him stopping and looking back. He also continued to play solo rather than return when he could protect both Klein and his friends, and give them a better boost with his knowledge of the game.
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Old 2012-08-14, 09:56   Link #157
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Hello, I'm an anime-only viewer, and I am interested in Kirito's character. I have a few questions for the novel-readers regarding this. I don't mind spoilers, but I think this could be answered without revealing too much of the plot.

Can you describe/summarize what 'flaws' this Kirito character has?

Anything, like his Achilles' Heels or his Kryptonite, fundamental or even potentially fatal personality problems. Something like how Sou Touma from QED is a super genius but can't handle human relationships, or how Aoi Toori from Horizon needs to be constantly happy or risk being dead the next instant.

He's a good character, and I like him, but put too much goodness it will make a character somewhat unbalanced. Likewise if a character has too much flaw and no real development.

Maybe I should get to actually read the novels, but as of now, I don't really have the will to read any LNs (happens all the time. I'm moody in how I watch my favorite anime as well, often withholding an entire season or two), but this Kirito is certainly amusing so I'd like to know more about him soon.

Thanks in advance.
There's quite a few character flaws that this guy has -- but as people mentioned above, many of them are considered "heroic traits" in manga/anime so most people don't notice them.

Although in recent episodes such as "Murder inside the area," Kirito is shown as having strong deductive or critical thinking skills, one of his character flaws I'd say is that he is too impulsive and emotional

Spoiler for LN pseudo-spoilers on impulsiveness:


Also, this works cause he's the main character and he has plot armor, but in general he has a "Let me take care of it!" attitude that is sometimes shockingly dense. It's almost a tad chauvinistic at times. I'm generally a critical thinker, a planner and am almost coldly analytic .. not a "hero character" myself.. And I can immediately think of half a dozen ways to eliminate him.

So, typical "hero" flaws, right?
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Old 2012-08-14, 10:51   Link #158
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
So, typical "hero" flaws, right?
That would be just a character trait. You may find it annoying but it's not an actual character flaw unless it's a real drawback for the character. Besides actual character flaws would not make the audience feel annoyed if they're well written. Like Taichi from Chihayafuru. He lacks self-confidence, which tampers with his performance in Karuta (there you see clearly how his character flaw becomes a drawback) but you don't get annoyed for the most part because you see him earnestly trying to overcome this issue, which results in some really interesting character development.
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Old 2012-08-14, 11:06   Link #159
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well to be certain in the early parts of the Aincrad arc he is quite socially awkward due to his lone wolf persona

things to take about this is his monologue during the red-nose reindeer when he is desperately keeping his level from the rest of the cats of the full moon guild and to Sacchi, He does not know what kind of backlash he will suffer if he says he's a Beater, a Clearer and A SOLO PLAYER

then we have in the first part of Aincrad arc where in he pretty much ditches out trying to help Klein survive the early floors of Aincrad one he can not take the heavy burden of being responsible for other people's lives (also evident when he enters death seeker phase after Sacchi's death) he could have help Klein alone but Klein wants to find and bring his friends along this worries Kirito.

I'm not sure if its a flaw of his or a charming point but he's quite a mysterious guy

well dense probably

and is a Sis-con at heart to the point of trying to protect Sacchi, Scilica and Lyfa to his best of his Abilities

and he might be a closet Masochist how in the hell did he pump up his unarmed combat to level 900+ just imagine what he does fighting monsters with bare fists without any sword skills max skill points in SAO is 1000
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Old 2012-08-14, 11:13   Link #160
Clarste
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Sachi's older than him. Kirito's a middle schooler and most people he meets are in high school or older. And the reason he struggles so hard to protect people is because Sachi died. He didn't struggle hard enough to protect her, he just gave her reassuring words. That's his basic character arc from volume 1.
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