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Old 2012-08-14, 12:12   Link #981
Blonto
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A few general points:
1. I know how irritating poorly received fanservice can be, so I sympathize with Pell and Pocari Sweat's dislike of it in this episode. However, I personally didn't have a problem with it because I felt it was executed pretty well. Sawa and her seiyu played it very straight, as did Sawa's father and his seiyu. They managed to make me believe that an angry girl could conceivably do this to spite her dad given what he had just said to her, and that's good enough for me.
2. I think that people are being a bit too hard with the "This came out of nowhere!" criticism. Sawa's issues with her father were foreshadowed last episode. And we've long known that she loves both equestrianism and archery. This episode simply adds two and two together, and fully reveals what's going on in her life. The setup for it was at least satisfactory, in my opinion.
3. I also think that people are being a bit too hard with the "This seems silly after the Wakana arc" criticism. A failed life dream isn't insignificant guys, especially for a person Sawa's age. Yes, it's not quite on the level of losing a parent at a young age, but it's also not small potatoes. Tari Tari has done a very good job, in my opinion, in showing just how much Sawa loves equestrianism. So while this episode didn't emotionally hit me like the final episode of the Wakana arc did, it still hits me some.
Pretty much this.
I did very much like the voice acting in that scene, even if it was for fanservice. They could've incorporated it in a much worse way.
I definitively didn't feel like Sawa's problem lacked foreshadowing. Throughout the show we're shown that she loves archery, she's loved riding since she was a kid and the problems with her dad were hinted at in the previous episode. This episode simply made the offscreen tensions between her dad and her explode and that's where they decided to start her arc.
I'm also bothered by all the people saying Sawa's problems seem meaningless, especially just because it was preceded by drama involving a dead parent. Her future is not a small thing, especially when you're at an age where you're expected to decide what to do with your life. Maybe I take it more seriously considering I know enough people who have to deal with that.
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Old 2012-08-14, 12:14   Link #982
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But she has the right to try. It's her life, and it would be much better for her to try and fail (if she does fail) than give up before even trying and be frustrated for the rest of her life.
True. I guess all of that frustration she had lead to her accident. Well I guess we'll see what she is going to do now.
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Old 2012-08-14, 12:16   Link #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Perhaps Wakana might have some interesting thoughts if she heard that one of her friends had said "I hope you die!" to a parent. I'd like to think that was intentional on the part of the writers, but I think that's giving them too much credit in this instance.
It does make for a compelling and ironic contrast...

If it is intentional, I think that you'll see Wakana play a role in trying to patch things up between Sawa and Sawa's dad.


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Originally Posted by Zeross View Post
i've seen it that way :
her dad was saying something like "hey I pay your food and the tuition for your school with my hardwork so stop playing", then she get upset and started to remove her uniform saying "you can have it back, sell it" in the sens of "if paying my tuition is too much a bother for you, then fine stop doing it and sell my uniform, if money is all you care about".
Yeah, that's how I took it too. It makes sense, in context. And it's not like Sawa's dad started blushing over his own daughter. It was handled respectfully, imo.


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Originally Posted by Julio C View Post
Am I the only one who agreed to Sawa's father? For that type of career to aim for takes a lot of consideration. As it was mentioned, being passionate is not enough.
His position is definitely reasonable. He's probably being a bit too overbearing about it, like relentlessflame said, but then maybe he feels he needs to be that way given Sawa being so strong-willed about it.
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Old 2012-08-14, 12:16   Link #984
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They did note how Taichi is being practical with his dreams of becoming a pro badminton player, and is focusing on a major besides sports just in case he doesn't make the cut. Contrast that with Sawa, who doesn't appear to have a "plan B" or alternative in mind after graduation. And while being a jockey may be physically impossible for her, there's other sports that involves horses. Maybe they are setting up this contrast for Taichi to step in and actually offer her some help? One can hope... lol
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Old 2012-08-14, 12:18   Link #985
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But she has the right to try. It's her life, and it would be much better for her to try and fail (if she does fail) than give up before even trying and be frustrated for the rest of her life.
i disagree about this one. we are talking of her skiping university to devote herself to be a jokey here (at least that what i understood).

even where i live, i france, skiping university is a realy bad idea for you future carier and job oportunity (hell even with university if you didnt study the right thing its hard as hell...), so i japan where education and schools are seen in an even higher regarde...

trying to be a jokey and failing could be very disastreous for her future, its not something you can "try and fail then do something else" so easly.
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Old 2012-08-14, 12:31   Link #986
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I hope Sawa comes to a realization after that accident.

Giving up on a university to pursue a career like that is a dumb idea. It's better to pursue a career while attending a university/college. Even if you don't make it at a professional level of that sport, you'll still be able to do something else a lot easier than with someone without a higher level of education.

I also do think that that was what Sawa's father was trying to implied.
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Old 2012-08-14, 12:47   Link #987
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
His position is definitely reasonable. He's probably being a bit too overbearing about it, like relentlessflame said, but then maybe he feels he needs to be that way given Sawa being so strong-willed about it.
He has a point, she has a point - it's a classic parent-child disagreement. But his role in the ep was specifically to be an ogre, someone for the audience to boo and hiss, so that's how he was presented.
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Old 2012-08-14, 12:56   Link #988
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
He has a point, she has a point - it's a classic parent-child disagreement. But his role in the ep was specifically to be an ogre, someone for the audience to boo and hiss, so that's how he was presented.
Are you saying you think he'll remain a largely antagonistic figure? A sharp contrast to Wakana's father?


One thing I forgot to mention before.

Yes, Wien really did buy the Rhino thing. It can be pretty startling what you can get people to believe about countries they're unfamiliar with if you convey the absurd lie with seeming sincerity.

I recall Canadian comedian Rick Mercer's Talking To Americans. What Mercer managed to get Americans (even including University Professors and top American politicians) to believe about Canada was pretty amazing. So I can totally buy Wien being fooled by the Rhino story.
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Old 2012-08-14, 12:57   Link #989
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Originally Posted by Blonto View Post
No, this show definitively isn't aimed at otakus. It seems like a show for both genders, even more for girls. Maybe it's the lack of fanservice or lack of anime cliches or the slow pace or just that the girls seem more natural than they do in other anime aimed at males. For instance, I think the kind of teasing they do here wouldn't pass well in a show aimed at males because it shows a part of reality where even nice girls can be a bit mean sometimes as opposed to caricatured girls who are only mean (read:violent) towards their crush or their worst enemy.
I think you are mistaking shounen shows for seinen shows, and as a result have a sort of warped perception of what "being aimed at otaku" is all about. It doesn't mean that a show is shallow, fanservice-laden, blatant wish fulfilment to the extreme (though this show still does have a component of that). In fact, as your anime viewing audience gets older, they may find those sorts of shows too tedious and pedantic (barring a unique premise, exceptional writing, or some other hook). The hook of this show is precisely in the rather natural, generally low-key presentation of its cast, the somewhat-realistic (but still dramatized) presentation of the story, and the rather pretty art, character designs, and animation. It can probably appeal to either men or women to some degree, but the primary audience for this sort of anime is men in their 20s/30s (like, not coincidentally, most of the people discussing in this thread). These are the sorts of people most likely to have the disposable income to buy the Blu-Rays (and other merchandise) for an anime-original show.


Anyway, I know this is a reply to a pretty old post by now. Regarding what's been discussed since... I guess I'll just say that I pretty much agree with the 5 points recently raised by Triple_R. I didn't find this episode particularly egregious in any regard; it seemed to follow rather logically from what had been set up previously to me. So, as always, YMMV.
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Old 2012-08-14, 13:00   Link #990
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Originally Posted by Zeross View Post
trying to be a jokey and failing could be very disastreous for her future, its not something you can "try and fail then do something else" so easly.
And you think living your whole life with regret and frustration isn't a disaster?

It's not so easy, and I admit that her father has a point, but all he can (and should) do as a father is advice her, not force her to do what he wants. It's her life and it's her decision, and if she wants to give it a shot her father doesn't have the right to stop her.
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Old 2012-08-14, 13:07   Link #991
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's not so easy, and I admit that her father has a point, but all he can (and should) do as a father is advice her, not force her to do what he wants. It's her life and it's her decision, and if she wants to give it a shot her father doesn't have the right to stop her.
I just want to point out that this is a bit of a cultural view. I have basically the same perspective personally, but not all cultures believe this. Some take a more strict view of the old "my house, my rules" view, and that includes dictating what their children may or may not do as long as they live there. That said, the key point here is that, though the father disagrees strongly, he actually doesn't go so far as to stop her or to really stand in her way. (And really, given who he's married to, he can't be so harsh on someone who pursues their passions...) It's clear to me that he's playing this role because he's trying to help her face reality before reality makes her face it (so he is okay with playing the villain, even though I'm sure it pains him, because he's a "nicer villain" than the world can be). I think there are other tactics he could have taken with her that might have been more effective... but it's easy for us on the outside to say that.

Anyway, generally speaking, I do think this is a fairly realistic family conflict. I remember some epic arguments I got into with my dad growing up, so it definitely seems familiar.
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Old 2012-08-14, 13:17   Link #992
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
And you think living your whole life with regret and frustration isn't a disaster?

It's not so easy, and I admit that her father has a point, but all he can (and should) do as a father is advice her, not force her to do what he wants. It's her life and it's her decision, and if she wants to give it a shot her father doesn't have the right to stop her.
Her dad did tell not tell her to abandon horseback riding and what she enjoys, he told her to look into finding a career or education, basically a plan for the future, and she can keep riding as a hobby. If she goes to college, gets a degree that can guarantee her a future, and, on the side, continues her practices and succeeds, I doubt her father would reprimand her. He just wants for her to have a future. You speak of regret but think about how much regret her father would have if he left her entirely to her own devices, especially given her obvious disadvantages, and she ended up failing and having no Plan B?

I don't think he was presented as an ogre at all, in fact his opinion and concern are perfectly valid. He is overbearing but Sawa is also being hardheaded (we've known that she can explode with passion since the Condor Queens arc), like father like daughter after all. The mom is clearly the mediator in the family as she, unlike her husband and daughter, is very level headed. Now, if her dad had threatened to sell the horse and told her to drop riding entirely because it is a "silly waste of time" that ya, he'd be your more general ogre role. Here, though, he's presented fairly.
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Old 2012-08-14, 13:39   Link #993
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They did note how Taichi is being practical with his dreams of becoming a pro badminton player, and is focusing on a major besides sports just in case he doesn't make the cut. Contrast that with Sawa, who doesn't appear to have a "plan B" or alternative in mind after graduation. And while being a jockey may be physically impossible for her, there's other sports that involves horses. Maybe they are setting up this contrast for Taichi to step in and actually offer her some help? One can hope... lol
This is actually a nice catch. Either the writers are geniuses or what, but this serves as a really nice contrast to what Sawa plans to do. I hope the writers capitalize on this as it seems Badminton-kun might be one of the more prominent figures in getting Sawa over this ordeal. The guys may be getting shafted but the writers aren't exactly ignoring them as bad as some of you are saying. Bonus points to PA Works for this.

In any case, the writers are really good with the subtle details, from the strict weight requirements to be a professional jockey to all the foreshadowing for the other characters.

On another note, Tari Tari pre-orders are actually doing quite well (beating out a few other series of the season, SAO... in the rankings anyway) although I'd like to say tanu's artwork may be a big factor too! At least for me since I love his/her artwork.
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Old 2012-08-14, 13:43   Link #994
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But she has the right to try. It's her life, and it would be much better for her to try and fail (if she does fail) than give up before even trying and be frustrated for the rest of her life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
And you think living your whole life with regret and frustration isn't a disaster?

It's not so easy, and I admit that her father has a point, but all he can (and should) do as a father is advice her, not force her to do what he wants. It's her life and it's her decision, and if she wants to give it a shot her father doesn't have the right to stop her.

well you know i was in a situation very similar from her.

i always wanted to work on the video game devlopement since middle school. my mother always took it as just a childist hope and game and never took it seriously.
i was kinda pissed at her reaction, and decided to show her that i was serious. i started to actively study computer programing on my own (created my first sortof game when i was around 15 i think), entered a school to study informatics, then folowed up with a university that specialized me in the video game devlopement (artificial inteligence field).

then i actualy made a living of it in a small company that, like almost all small company in this domain, when bunkrupt some time after. i dont mean to brag but i'm fairly good in programation and quite confident in my capacity.
well it took me a whole year to find another job, and those were VERY hard time. i finaly got a job as programer in a bank and now thing are back to normal.

why does it took me so long, well just because my diplom mentioned "video game" and no society took me seriously. "eh you studied video game ? that cool but we dont work in that field so your experience and knowledge are useless" was a common answer.

seeing how hard it was to be taken seriously with a damn university diplom in computer science just because i studied video game, i can imagine that past experience as a jokey would produce something even more drastic.

at some point during my job research, i even started to regret having done those study in video games. i was realy starting to wish i've done another field instead and listened to my parents. it turned out well for me and i can now use my knowledge in video game devlopement to use it as my passion, but now i clearly see it as i have my regular job (wish i like, the question isn't there) and i keep video game as a passion, because i realised i wont be able to make a CORRECT living of it anymore.


i realy think that this, transposed to japan's strictness and beiing a jokey make the thing realy a "hit or miss" thing. if she can succeed (wich seem to be hard with her weight) then that good, but if she can't it can realy fuck up her carier.

so i understand her father position, i wouldn't use the same approach if it were me, but as long as he dont actualy forbid her and just strongly disagree i dont see the problem.
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Old 2012-08-14, 13:43   Link #995
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Her dad did tell not tell her to abandon horseback riding and what she enjoys, he told her to look into finding a career or education, basically a plan for the future, and she can keep riding as a hobby.
And how is that not trying to stop her? She wants to be a professional jokey. If he tells her to forget about it and just ride as a hobby, he's clearly trying to stop her.

Like I said, he has a point, and I wouldn't find it wrong if he was just voicing his concern. But he is doing a bit more than that, and to me that's a line a father shouldn't cross. It's just my opinion.
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Old 2012-08-14, 13:57   Link #996
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On another note, Tari Tari pre-orders are actually doing quite well (beating out a few other series of the season, SAO, etc) although I'd like to say tanu's artwork may be a big factor too! At least for me since I love his/her artwork.
Well, they're doing pretty well indeed, but not quite as well as SAO. In any case, though, for a show like this, it seems to be performing adequately for sure.

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And how is that not trying to stop her? She wants to be a professional jokey. If he tells her to forget about it and just ride as a hobby, he's clearly trying to stop her.
I don't think he has actually stopped her yet, though, even though it's within his ability. He's "strongly suggesting" (which has an implication that he might stop her if she goes too far), but he hasn't actually literally gotten in her way yet. I guess I would say "he is trying to convince her to stop", as oppose to "trying to stop her".
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Old 2012-08-14, 14:08   Link #997
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I definitively don't see Sawa's father as an antagonistic figure. Neither of them is wrong. I just hope the series will handle this issue better than most, because these stories tend to make the parent into a devil and the teen into a free-spirited soul on its way to stardom. It's not nearly that simple in reality.

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Yeah, that's how I took it too. It makes sense, in context. And it's not like Sawa's dad started blushing over his own daughter. It was handled respectfully, imo.
I was so afraid her dad would start blushing or that her mom would get the wrong idea. They handled the scene better than most anime nowadays would.

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Maybe they are setting up this contrast for Taichi to step in and actually offer her some help? One can hope... lol
That would actually be a great way to give him some development within another character's arc. They both share atypical dream professions, but their approaches differ. It would be such a waste not to connect these two stories and it would leave enough time for Wien to get development.

Last edited by Blonto; 2012-08-14 at 14:21.
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Old 2012-08-14, 14:12   Link #998
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Hmm... it seems that in my previous post I didn't highlight enough what didn't work in this episode in my opinion.
The fact is that the direction the series has now taken is worrisome, from my point of view, because it has abandoned almost completely the choir route, to follow individuals' routes. Let me be clear, I like all the characters' here, but considering the 13 episode lenght I think it wasn't the case to venture into individual dramas.
There was only one the series needed, because it had to unlock the catalyst character, Wakana. It was done well and it was enough. This week I was expecting the chorus adventure to restart, I expected them to start practicing, singing and hanging around together, yet we're stuck again.

This is what I really don't like, because at least another episode will be dedicated to Sawa and after that:
1) If they don't show other characters' background it'd become kinda unbalanced in regards to the others (if you think about it we haven't seen much of Konatsu's private life either).
2) If they do show the others' background and let the chorus alone, then what were the first episodes for?

I wouldn't want that the chorus club was used as just an excuse to gather people, device often used in novelties and in anime too, but that I wasn't expecting from Tari Tari. And considering the low ... alchemy between the chorus members as of episode 7, it's more than a possibility.
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Old 2012-08-14, 14:21   Link #999
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Hmm... it seems that in my previous post I didn't highlight enough what didn't work in this episode in my opinion.
The fact is that the direction the series has now taken is worrisome, from my point of view, because it has abandoned almost completely the choir route, to follow individuals' routes. Let me be clear, I like all the characters' here, but considering the 13 episode lenght I think it wasn't the case to venture into individual dramas.
There was only one the series needed, because it had to unlock the catalyst character, Wakana. It was done well and it was enough. This week I was expecting the chorus adventure to restart, I expected them to start practicing, singing and hanging around together, yet we're stuck again.

This is what I really don't like, because at least another episode will be dedicated to Sawa and after that:
1) If they don't show other characters' background it'd become kinda unbalanced in regards to the others (if you think about it we haven't seen much of Konatsu's private life either).
2) If they do show the others' background and let the chorus alone, then what were the first episodes for?

I wouldn't want that the chorus club was used as just an excuse to gather people, device often used in novelties and in anime too, but that I wasn't expecting from Tari Tari. And considering the low ... alchemy between the chorus members as of episode 7, it's more than a possibility.
The chorus part of the story is still present. Particularly in regards to the current antagonistic choir members intruding on their club meeting, the revelation that the Vice Principle is in charge of the main stage, Wakana's meet up to watch the musical for ideas... and so forth. Although I do admit it's been overshadowed by the current affairs with Sawa. For now, I hope the writers are able to capitalize on all the little foreshadowing they've thrown at the audience. Show's execution is superb as it is now but if they do manage to do everything right, I'll be a happy camper.
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Old 2012-08-14, 14:25   Link #1000
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The chorus part of the story is still present. Particularly in regards to the current antagonistic choir members intruding on their club meeting, the revelation that the Vice Principle is in charge of the main stage, Wakana's meet up to watch the musical for ideas... and so forth. Although I do admit it's been overshadowed by the current affairs with Sawa. For now, I hope the writers are able to capitalize on all the little foreshadowing they've thrown at the audience. Show's execution is superb as it is now but if they do manage to do everything right, I'll be a happy camper.
This is one of those anime where we'll have to wait until the end to truly make a judgment. From here on it can either be fantastic or meh depending on how they handle what they've got so far.
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