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Old 2012-08-14, 14:40   Link #101
itachi-san314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasheks View Post
^
Much like you can't provide a page that Tobi is shown using MS. With a slight difference that Tobi is always seen with a regular sharingan prior to casting the technique. Just not in the same panel, I'll give you that.
But until it is shown clearly what he uses it's all pretty much speculation, unless someone finds that page you asked for as I am too lazy to search.
I never said I could. I said it wasn't shown on purpose. Even if he doesn't use MS, it's not a fact yet that he doesn't like a lot of people claim it to be

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
To use basic teleportation logic (derived from every source that has teleportation as an ability), if you teleport into a solid piece of matter (or un-phase while in a solid piece of matter), then you die because your body either becomes part of the object you are moving into, or it is simply crushed
I agree, but Tobi's ability is said to be the best ever, even beyond what Minato could do. Displacing earth isn't the most far fetched thing in naruto for sure.

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To put it into perspective, in chapter 566 Tobi effortlessly slipped out of the ground without causing any disturbance. Why didn't he do that back during the Deidara battle?
my guess would be that he had to materialize in different places to plant the bombs.

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That being said, "Whack-a-Mole" was an anime-only jutsu for Tobi.
oh ok, I didn't remember that. thanks

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There isn't much to really compare the technique to, but similar kanji is used to describe the Sound Four's (confirmed) barrier ninjutsu and the one Tobi recently performed (I think there are other barriers that also use the same kanji). Specifically, both contain the characters 炎 and 陣 (flame and formation). Additionally, summoning requires blood (save for Pain's summons, which still have yet to be explained) or a seal which blood can be applied to or that already has blood in it.
hmm. interesting info. thanks

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
but now that we know that a pair of MS eyes looks the same we can assume that Tobi's eye should look like Kakashi's eye in MS mode.
assuming tobi doesn't have ems then yes.

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Also spamming MS jutsu always consumes a lot of chakra, so why would Tobi be able to spam MS? If he could then he could also spam rinnegan jutsu, but Kakashi already told us that Tobi is avoiding that.
well this might all fit under the umbrella of kishi giving characters enough chakra to do whatever it is the plot needs them to do. nagato was dying and he spammed the hell out of rinnegan. since tobi is more experienced or doesn't use such a great distance, maybe his kamui requires less chakra than kakashi's kamui?

Quote:
So Tobi can use this jutsu with almost no effect to his chakra level and Obito's eye, which is also a strong hint that he is not in MS mode.
a bigger hint to me is that kakashi needs MS to use kamui. we've never seen a MS technique used by somebody else without MS. if that was the case, then sasuke could have feasibly used Amaterasu vs Itachi in normal sharingan mode

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Personally, I'm expecting that Obito's eye will be found in the center of Tobi's head, or some other place on his body and not the eye socket we've all been focusing on.
interesting. he does have the eye hole for it now
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Old 2012-08-14, 15:32   Link #102
Artimus_Prime
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Originally Posted by Discerptor View Post
It seems likely at this point that Obito's Sharingan is similar to Shisui's in that it has a special ability usable by the right eye's normal Sharingan and a much more powerful but related ability that can be used by the left eye's Mangekyou Sharingan. In fact, I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that providing a prior example of a "special" Sharingan may have been a large part of the reason Shisui's Sharingan was presented in the story at all. As we've been shown repeatedly, Tobi has only been using the regular Sharingan this whole time, and that's why he hasn't gone blind.
once again i really want these two uchiha to be brothers…i mean, who died for shisui to activate his mangekyo??…come on kishi, give me this. also, whenever we see tobis kamui, we never see the design of the eye…there is no certainty that he only uses normal sharingan

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
since i'm clearly in the minority about thinking tobi uses MS to use kamui. or at least that it's not a fact that he uses normal sharingan all the time. can anybody site an example from the manga that shows tobi using a normal sharingan when he uses his kamui technique? my hunch is that you can't, but let's see
your hunch is correct…we both know such a page doesn't exist LOL

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
He has a normal sharingan eye every time we see him, i've never seen him with MS eyes in battles and when he uses his version of kamui. We now know for sure that it's Obito's eye, and it was never shown in MS mode when Tobi was performing his super-kamui. If it was not Obito's eye we could say that the specific eye that Tobi uses looks the same in MS/EMS mode as a normal sharingan, but now that we know that a pair of MS eyes looks the same we can assume that Tobi's eye should look like Kakashi's eye in MS mode. Also spamming MS jutsu always consumes a lot of chakra, so why would Tobi be able to spam MS? If he could then he could also spam rinnegan jutsu, but Kakashi already told us that Tobi is avoiding that. So Tobi can use this jutsu with almost no effect to his chakra level and Obito's eye, which is also a strong hint that he is not in MS mode.
-Yes, whenever we are SHOWN the eye, its normal
- when he uses super-kamui though, we never get to see the eye
- yes a pair of MS looks the same. kakashi has one…we have seen the design. since tobi has the other, it should look identical as you mention
- as itachi-san mentions, a strong hint is that MS is required for kakashi to use the technique. it may be possible i guess, but unlikely that tobi is doing this without MS power. Why do i think this? we have been told that the mangekyou is required to control the 9 tails…if the original masked man (non-swirly mask) was using obits eye as well, i assume it HAD to have MS powers otherwise he would not have gain control of kyuubi...which would be an even stronger hint that our current tobis eye is in MS mode...........(i admit, this particular point is not as strong as i would like it to be since i have other thoughts about the "other" masked man, but this will have to do for now)

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Personally, I'm expecting that Obito's eye will be found in the center of Tobi's head, or some other place on his body and not the eye socket we've all been focusing on.
this would be fun to see…but every time he absorbs, things swirl into that right eye socket. so i dunno bout that
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Old 2012-08-14, 17:13   Link #103
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
-Yes, whenever we are SHOWN the eye, its normal
- when he uses super-kamui though, we never get to see the eye
Well maybe i was fooled by the anime, i somehow remember that the eye is shown while Tobi performs the jutsu, but now i'm not sure of it any more.
But in general, we always see MS turned on some time before the jutsu is actually performed, so why would Madara always turn on then off his MS eye. He would have to do it hundreds of times when phasing through people and teleporting to his dimension.

So i looked at Tobi's fight against Konan (around chapter 510), there after the upper part of the mask is blown off and Tobi is inside a sea of exploding tags he still has the normal sharingan while he is continuously phasing to avoid explosions. And his other eye is used up for the izanagi.

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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
Why do i think this? we have been told that the mangekyou is required to control the 9 tails…if the original masked man (non-swirly mask) was using obits eye as well, i assume it HAD to have MS powers otherwise he would not have gain control of kyuubi...which would be an even stronger hint that our current tobis eye is in MS mode...........(i admit, this particular point is not as strong as i would like it to be since i have other thoughts about the "other" masked man, but this will have to do for now)
Funny that you bring that up, in that case Tobi was controlling the kyuubi the whole time, but we have never seen his eye in MS mode while he was fighting Minato and at the same time keeping the genjutsu on the kyuubi. In chapter 501 page 8 we see Tobi casting the sharingan genjutsu on the kyuubi, as he takes control over the kyuubi it's eye is first a normal sharingan then some forms a special pattern (obviously the reason is if the kyuubi had a sharingan eye while destroying Konoha then the Uchiha clan would be blamed immediately after the attack by the whole village), and Tobi's eye is shown with blood veins which usually means the sharingan being used for a difficult jutsu which means that it was Obito's eye used for it and not another hidden sharingan behind the mask, and the eye is a normal sharingan.
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Old 2012-08-14, 17:35   Link #104
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are we getting this chapter tomorrow or a new one? this break and leak got me all confused :S
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Old 2012-08-14, 18:02   Link #105
james0246
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Originally Posted by WefiDasst View Post
are we getting this chapter tomorrow or a new one? this break and leak got me all confused :S
No new spoilers until next week. The thread title explains it all (Hunter did it...I think).
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Old 2012-08-14, 18:13   Link #106
WefiDasst
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
No new spoilers until next week. The thread title explains it all (Hunter did it...I think).
thank you
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Old 2012-08-14, 18:32   Link #107
Mateus
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
No new spoilers until next week. The thread title explains it all (Hunter did it...I think).
Damn! Just when things are getting good - hopefully more Naruto vs Tobi next week, unless we get back to the kage curbstomp or Orochimaru (always good)
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Old 2012-08-14, 18:58   Link #108
Artimus_Prime
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Funny that you bring that up, in that case Tobi was controlling the kyuubi the whole time, but we have never seen his eye in MS mode while he was fighting Minato and at the same time keeping the genjutsu on the kyuubi. In chapter 501 page 8 we see Tobi casting the sharingan genjutsu on the kyuubi, as he takes control over the kyuubi it's eye is first a normal sharingan then some forms a special pattern (obviously the reason is if the kyuubi had a sharingan eye while destroying Konoha then the Uchiha clan would be blamed immediately after the attack by the whole village), and Tobi's eye is shown with blood veins which usually means the sharingan being used for a difficult jutsu which means that it was Obito's eye used for it and not another hidden sharingan behind the mask, and the eye is a normal sharingan.
In chapter 568 we see real Madara genjutsuing the 9 tails and his sharingan is normal and strained as well...but we definitely know he has the mangekyou. It doesn't need to activated to control the kyuubi...if you have the MS you can control the 9tails as mentioned in the manga...thus obitos right eye LIKELY uses MS power because 1)we see kakashi MS for the same technique and 2)obito eye was used to control the 9tails as u mentioned...
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Old 2012-08-14, 20:17   Link #109
David_The_Gnome
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Not true. He used an Earth technique in the Deidara v. Sasuke battle
I've been reading the manga exclusively for quite awhile. Though, I'm iffy on considering anything outside of the manga canon.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Tobi can use techniques, he simply doesn't.
Didn't say he can't.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
[Tobi] literally just used an Uchiha flame technique last chapter (596), additionally he seemingly used Kotoamatsukami on Yagura at some point (though this could have been a different Tobi), and can potentially use Tsukuyomi. Tobi can use techniques, he simply doesn't.
Then with the exception of what you mentioned, let's go back to my point. We have some facts from the author. Though everything seems to be pointing towards Obito being Tobi there are a few loose ends. Just wondering if anybody else can make heads or tails out of it while we wait for the next chapter.
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Old 2012-08-14, 20:39   Link #110
Hunter
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Actually...why hasn't Obito's eye (in Tobi) gone blind yet? Tobi has, presumably, been using the eye (specifically the time-space ninjutsu) for 17 years, so how come the eye hasn't lost its "light"? Itachi's eyes went out after only 7 or so years of usage (and I doubt he ever used them that much), yet Tobi has been using the same eye for more than twice as long with no problems (to the eye). So...what's up with that...?
His body made of Hashirama DNA probably stops or at least considerably slows down the side effect of MS use. That and the rate at which the MS close itself is entirely dependent on the plot.
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Originally Posted by David_The_Gnome
I've been reading the manga exclusively for quite awhile. Though, I'm iffy on considering anything outside of the manga canon.
That's fine then because Tobi physically travelled underground in the manga as well.
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Old 2012-08-14, 21:21   Link #111
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
The anime has no bearing on the manga, if Edo-Madara had already made his appearance and it turned out that Tobi was someone else they would just change his voice a 3rd time once Tobi revealed his true persona.

Anyhow Tobi can't be Madara or part of Madara -playful of serious. They are nothing alike in personality, power, figthing style, appearance and knowledge. No, the sad truth is that it's increasingly probable that Tobi is Obito.
Not Obito's eye or Obito's body or his captured soul or whatever. Just Obito, period.
Hell his laughable rant about heros and Kakashi even explains his reaction when he told Sasuke about Izuna's ultimately useless sacrifice. He gave his eye to his brother in arm so he could save the girl he was infatuated with but she ended up dead anyway so woe is me. Let's fuck the world so everybody can dream happily ever after.

God this is boring.
If Rin is indeed dead, then this really could be why Tobi/Obito ( if they are the same people) is doing what he is doing. Maybe we will get a Kakashi Gaiden part 2 . This is a really good theory indeed imo and it wouldn't be that surprising ( Imo) if kishi took this path.

Or maybe a reverse could also be possible. Maybe Kakashi had a mission with Rin in which he prioritized saving his friends over the mission or maybe he tried to sacrifice himself to save the said members but then Rin sacrificed herself to save him. Or maybe He actually did save his fellow Ninja in said mission and had to endure the same treatment that his father had to deal with. Or anything/something else along these lines.

Tobi/obito having seen that the world doesn't change, he then tried to change the world his own way.
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Old 2012-08-14, 23:53   Link #112
David_The_Gnome
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That's fine then because Tobi physically travelled underground in the manga as well.
In that case, not sure why it was mentioned somewhere above that the jutsu Tobi used to get those mines setup was anime exclusive. Thought the posters were talking about something else I missed. Nonetheless, it didn't even occur to me before that traveling underground was a jutsu given that ninjas in this universe walk on water as often as they swam.

If you guys are That adamant on a simple statement I made then I could just retract it.

Or change it to, "Outside of using summoning techniques and space-time warping Tobi chooses not to use any other jutsus that often for whatever reason".

LOL happy?

Last edited by David_The_Gnome; 2012-08-15 at 00:21. Reason: quick edits
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Old 2012-08-15, 00:23   Link #113
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^You're confusing two different jutsus. The 'whack a mole' (or whatever it was called) is an anime only jutsu, but the jutsu used to travel underground comes from the manga (that was the jutsu we were discussing).
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Old 2012-08-15, 00:31   Link #114
David_The_Gnome
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The 'whack a mole'...
Thanks for clarifying.

Somehow, reading this I'm glad it was "anime only" as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 2012-08-15, 02:29   Link #115
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Originally Posted by yakumo-chan View Post
I have a theory why Obito became a Bad Person,

Madara Saved Obito using Zetsu,
Then Obito became Madara's Student.
Madara Teaches everything to Obito, and his plan about the Infinite Tsukoyomi
then Obito Killed Madara, and somehow gained his powers,
which is why he said " The Ultimate power of the Sharingan will be Mine! Uchiha Madara's Power!"

so...

Madara = Sith Lord
Obito = Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker
Convinced me, that's the only way Tobi could be Obito and right now it seems to be the most likely theory.
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Old 2012-08-15, 08:21   Link #116
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Tobi = obito's father. He knew his sharingan was special so he tracked him until he could take it for himself. I think this will be potentially revealed via sasuke and orochimaru.

I think it's interesting that Tobias isn't a ba guy. If he was he would have killed kakashi a long time ago imo. And when you look back hoe many people has tobi actually killed?
The Anbu guarding the kyuubi,
A bunch of jinchuriki,
Konan, and Fu/torune (who tried to kill him first)

Idk it's just interesting (or convenient on kishi's part) that tobi would let kakashi keep that sharingan which is now shown to be the key to defeating him.
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Old 2012-08-15, 09:50   Link #117
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Just because they're lawful evil doesn't make em any less evil.
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Old 2012-08-15, 10:04   Link #118
yakumo-chan
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Originally Posted by b1gdawg View Post
Convinced me, that's the only way Tobi could be Obito and right now it seems to be the most likely theory.
Yeah, since Obito is a good guy, we really can relate him to Nagato, Nagato was a good guy when he was a kid, then he became a bad guy when he met Tobi by a false Idealism.

Nagato did said something good before which is "Someday I will break the curse, If there's such a thing as peace I will find it"

so Obito can be a bad guy,

the only thing that's bothering that TObi is not Obito is because of the TObi vs. Minato fight and KOnan vs. TObi fight

In chapter 552... Itachi said something important to Naruto.. its in page 7-8.. he said
Spoiler for BIG:

"You start to forget about others, To be Arrogant and to be attached to your Ego,... ONE DAY YOU WILL BECOME JUST LIKE MADARA"


so If Naruto can become evil just like Madara, why not obito??
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Old 2012-08-15, 10:18   Link #119
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Still not sold on the whole Obito thing. Would prefer it be Rin who later took Obito's eye.
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Old 2012-08-15, 11:51   Link #120
Kowai
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Have any obito=tobi supporters been able to explain their age gap?
How was obito fighting minato?

What if tobi is not only obito's father but madara's son too?

It is clear that tobi is from the hidden leaf because:
He appears to be an uchiha - not confirmed
He had beef with the uchiha - he helped itachi slay the clan (to avenge his father?)
He knows about the various ninja of konoha - kakashi in particular (maybe because he was on his potential son's team) but also shikamaru/the Nara clan (when he steals the jar and shikamaru catches him in kagemane)
Has a relationship with danzo - unknown but who was on danzo's team if hiruzen trained the sannin?

The purpose of his mask is not to hide his identity from the reader (hiding a character we have seen before) but to hide his identity from the other ninja in the story.
So I really really don't see it being obito unless time travel justsu is involved, and although Kishi likes dbz, he doesn't need to go that big of an asspull route.
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