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Old 2012-08-15, 02:05   Link #1021
SoFarGone
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So I finally had the time to watch this and its pretty good. Are the guys main characters or supporting characters because it sure seems like the latter. Also the manga version of this seems to portray the vice president has some evil women trying to ruin the choir club or something.
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Old 2012-08-15, 02:21   Link #1022
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Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
Man, sucks to be Wien now. Everyone has goals and here he is still trying to find a way to fit in.

Spoiler for character comparisons from another anime:

I feel like Wien is trying to catch up with everyone else. I don't remember, but did Wien say why he came back to Japan after being gone so long?


I remember having to use the weekly TV Guide to find my anime. Don't wanna go back to those days..
Maybe he had some form of relatives that could take him in or something so he moved back to Japan... the little segment with the letter to Yang brings up a lot of questions but it's still hard to say.
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Old 2012-08-15, 02:26   Link #1023
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Is Tanaka the only one in the group that knows Sawa's dream of being a jockey? If thats the case then I see him the only one helping her next episode.
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Old 2012-08-15, 03:14   Link #1024
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Personally, I do purposefully try as much as possible to keep that when I watch anime, because that sense of "joy" is the main thing I'm seeking out of the medium, and I still find it when watching shows like this one.
Well not to derail the topic too much, but I think this is a misrepresentation of what a lot of people do sometimes. When I watch an anime at least, I'm not constantly thinking in my head about how an anime could be better or how the characterization or directing or whatever can be better. I simply watch and experience and react. Depending on how I feel I might try to rationalize my experience afterwards, but that doesn't mean I'm actively doing that while I am watching. The only time that would happen is when something is so ridiculously bad that I am taken out of the experience all together .
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Old 2012-08-15, 03:24   Link #1025
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well not to derail the topic too much, but I think this is a misrepresentation of what a lot of people do sometimes. When I watch an anime at least, I'm not constantly thinking in my head about how an anime could be better or how the characterization or directing or whatever can be better. I simply watch and experience and react. Depending on how I feel I might try to rationalize my experience afterwards, but that doesn't mean I'm actively doing that while I am watching. The only time that would happen is when something is so ridiculously bad that I am taken out of the experience all together .
I won't speak for anyone else, but maybe there's a perception that people who write critically about anime after the fact (or, God forbid, blog about it) are looking for things to pick apart and savage, madly scribbling notes about every picayune error they see.

For me, at least, I watch anime because I love it - and I hope every show I watch is going to be great. And even if I intend to blog a show, I tend not to think about my reaction to it while I'm watching it - I just react. If I blog a show I'll worry about organizing my thoughts after the fact, possibly re-watch it with that in mind (though not most of the time).

And when it comes to blogging an episode, or commenting here, I just say what I think. If it's great, I say so - if I felt it sucked, I don't hold back (though as I rarely stick around for shows I don't like quite a bit that doesn't happen too often). Most often it's somewhere in between. But I don't watch an episode hoping to find things wrong with it, and I'm always much happier writing about a show I loved than one I didn't.
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Old 2012-08-15, 03:26   Link #1026
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well not to derail the topic too much, but I think this is a misrepresentation of what a lot of people do sometimes. When I watch an anime at least, I'm not constantly thinking in my head about how an anime could be better or how the characterization or directing or whatever can be better. I simply watch and experience and react. Depending on how I feel I might try to rationalize my experience afterwards, but that doesn't mean I'm actively doing that while I am watching. The only time that would happen is when something is so ridiculously bad that I am taken out of the experience all together .
Fair enough, but I can only base my perspective on what people like to talk about on the Forums. If most of what people do is "rationalize their experience" (or try to rationalize the show), it makes it seem that anime is, to them, primarily rational. I guess it's just different personalities and the way they convey their opinions. Personally, I don't like to make the show responsible for my feelings and opinions, just a contributor to it, so that influences the way I write.

Anyway, as you say, it's neither here nor there, so we should probably move along.
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Old 2012-08-15, 03:41   Link #1027
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Originally Posted by SoFarGone View Post
Is Tanaka the only one in the group that knows Sawa's dream of being a jockey? If thats the case then I see him the only one helping her next episode.
He's not the only one but he'd definitively be ideal for helping her with this, plus it would give more attention to his character. Two birds with one stone. He and Sawa are going through pretty much the same issues, except that Tanaka accepted he'd be better off with a more secure job. It'd be great to see them talk and help eachother out, hopefully without much crappy rushed romance.
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Old 2012-08-15, 06:01   Link #1028
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Sawa . Hopefully she is fine .

I can't handle a sad ending for Sawa side story .

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Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
Hmm... it seems that in my previous post I didn't highlight enough what didn't work in this episode in my opinion.
The fact is that the direction the series has now taken is worrisome, from my point of view, because it has abandoned almost completely the choir route, to follow individuals' routes. Let me be clear, I like all the characters' here, but considering the 13 episode lenght I think it wasn't the case to venture into individual dramas.
There was only one the series needed, because it had to unlock the catalyst character, Wakana. It was done well and it was enough. This week I was expecting the chorus adventure to restart, I expected them to start practicing, singing and hanging around together, yet we're stuck again.

This is what I really don't like, because at least another episode will be dedicated to Sawa and after that:
1) If they don't show other characters' background it'd become kinda unbalanced in regards to the others (if you think about it we haven't seen much of Konatsu's private life either).
2) If they do show the others' background and let the chorus alone, then what were the first episodes for?

I wouldn't want that the chorus club was used as just an excuse to gather people, device often used in novelties and in anime too, but that I wasn't expecting from Tari Tari. And considering the low ... alchemy between the chorus members as of episode 7, it's more than a possibility.
I agree with most of what you say here Pelli but imo focusing too much on Chorus club would be a bit boring.

This is my guess. Episode 8 will be another Sawa episode. They could try to tie Tanka's story to Sawa's story since they are both in competitive sport. Also Tanaka's story seems to have much less drama in it so probably they can just wrap it up here . Maybe his story will help Sawa in some way. If that doesn't happen or even if it does, there is a chance that Tanaka will still get another episode dedicated to him.

Then episode 9 ( maybe 10 too but doubt it) would work on Wien's background story.

Then we would have episode 9(10)-13 exclusively about the chorus club and it would probably include Konatsu, the vice president, chairman and the conclusion of their chorus journey.

In worse case scenario ( Imo) we would have at least the last 3 episodes 11-13 dedicated to the chorus club ( which would probably include the chairman, vice president, ... ).

P.S. I don't understand what you mean about low level of alchemy between the members. can you expand on that .

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He's not the only one but he'd definitively be ideal for helping her with this, plus it would give more attention to his character. Two birds with one stone. He and Sawa are going through pretty much the same issues, except that Tanaka accepted he'd be better off with a more secure job. It'd be great to see them talk and help eachother out, hopefully without much crappy rushed romance.
Though i wouldn't mind the romance between Sawa and Tanaka, i agree with you that Tanaka would be ideal in helping her .
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Old 2012-08-15, 07:52   Link #1029
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I agree with most of what you say here Pelli but imo focusing too much on Chorus club would be a bit boring.
Heh, point of views. You call it boring while I'd call it refreshing. Once I'll digest the turn this anime is taking, I'll probably enjoy it more because I already like both characters and environments. As of now, it just caught me off guard.

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P.S. I don't understand what you mean about low level of alchemy between the members. can you expand on that .
It was a metaphor to illustrate that chorus members don't really get along with each other well, gender-wise. Females hang out with females, males hang out with males. Like this, the chorus is "fragmented", and as in most scenarios where teamwork is required, chance of growth/success are quite low.

Expanding a bit on the matter, the females represent the "choir" part of the club, while the males are the "badminton" part. In hindsight, the scene where the girls went to the concert together but without the guys makes more sense. I mean, it's no big surprise that they don't (or can't) blend well together. The authors used this trick to preserve both clubs from extinction, and they probably meant just that. It's one club now, but they're actually two inside, like before.
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Old 2012-08-15, 08:37   Link #1030
Blonto
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Though i wouldn't mind the romance between Sawa and Tanaka, i agree with you that Tanaka would be ideal in helping her .
I didn't put that well. I like romance, I wouldn't mind it at all here. I just don't like romance that feels more like fanservice rather than a part of the story.
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Old 2012-08-15, 08:40   Link #1031
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Originally Posted by Blonto View Post
I didn't put that well. I like romance, I wouldn't mind it at all here. I just don't like romance that feels more like fanservice rather than a part of the story.
In other words romance that feels like pure shipper fuel, to which I largely agree. I don't mind romance if it's done well or if it's actually significant part of a story's plot, but adding it just for the sake of adding it ... I will raise a few eyebrows.
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Old 2012-08-15, 08:58   Link #1032
Blonto
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In other words romance that feels like pure shipper fuel, to which I largely agree. I don't mind romance if it's done well of it's actually significant part of a story's plot, but adding it just for the sake of adding it ... I will raise a few eyebrows.
Yeah, shipper fuel. It's the kind of romance that doesn't come from characters, but from generic "romantic moments" and while those have their place, it's never good when the romance relies solely on them.
I don't mind if it's not a significant part of the story, in fact I prefer when it's done in a subtle way as that leaves more time to explore the characters themselves. I just don't like seeing romantic plot tumors.
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Old 2012-08-15, 09:35   Link #1033
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Watching everyone suddenly concerned about their future plans, made me realize just how fast everything is going. One moment they're singing their first recital, and then the next, they're already concerned with college. This is definitely one series that would benefit from having more episodes.

Seeing as this is a just one cour show, I really don't think romance is the way to go here. Instead, I'd rather that this show continues on the route that it's currently on and tackle the individual characters' issues at a nice pace.

Anyway, it really is a strange feeling to have watched the latest Hyouka episode before this, which similarly expresses that there are just some obstacles that passion and hard work, by themselves, cannot surpass. That is a hard fact of life that Sawa needs to appreciate, and her father makes some very good arguments regarding that point. Of course, it's still up to question how this show deals with it.

Now, I'm losing hope here, but I'm still hoping that the vice principal's back story gets a bit of exploration. As an antagonist, I find her to be a somewhat intriguing character.
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Old 2012-08-15, 11:17   Link #1034
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It's funny how you can compare a series episode's quality on a specific week based by directly comparing to its competitors that also happens to air on the same day.
Spoiler for Comparison to Hyouka and Kokoro Connect:


Anyways, back onto Tari Tari proper. My idea of Tari Tari being a pure music anime was already debunked at episode 2 when the creators decided they would blast through the club formation segment. Initially I was a bit puzzled at the decision but looking back where we are now, it makes perfect sense as it seems to be clear that Tari Tari's focus is not to be a music anime per se, but a character and life drama using music as a vehicle to develop the said characters and topic. In other words, Tari Tari is no Nodame Cantabile or Beck: Mongolian Chop Squad, where the actual premise was about music and music was always on the forefront and was the driving theme that caused everything including the characters themselves to line up appropriately. Behind the numerous lighthearted moments in both those series, you would also see the uglier sides of the characters because of the musical theme and how one should taking it seriously if music was to be taken at a professional level. So far nothing of the serious sort in regards to music has been explored in Tari Tari.

In that sense, because of the differences in approach, Tari Tari is not much different from say the direction taken by K-on and Sakamichi no Appollon.
Spoiler for Comparison to K-On and Sakamichi no Appollon:


So to Pellissier, Reckoner and a few others that are a bit worried about the series taking a less musical approach I cannot help but say this was already the case from episode 2 onwards... at least from how I see it. However, whilst I'm happy with Tari Tari's focus, I can respect why some people want more of a musical focus since animes where music is the primary integral theme with everything else revolving around that theme, are indeed rare.

But as mentioned in my previous posts, in regards to this week's episode alone, I still did not really like it due to the fact the timing for a Sawa drama episode seemed off (seems really insignificant after a mother's death) as well as various presentation problems which I've already pointed some out in a listed format, which I would criticize regardless of the episode's placement.

However, I am still very optimistic of the series and it hasn't changed my belief that it is the best PA Works production since True Tears.
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Old 2012-08-15, 11:40   Link #1035
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Even if I also got surprised from the more formulaic way the narrative seems to have taken, I'm glad that the show didn't focus too much on the chorus club. If anything this show surprised me for its consistency in many aspects, from character interactions to flow of events. Back to the first episode who really cared about the choir? Only Konatsu, Sawa fully supported her, but not for a real interest in singing. Wakana is the one that could be more involved and probably she will, but not so far. Badminton-kun, well if I call him in this way there's a reason, so imagine how he could care about the choir side of the club. Wein is hard to guess, but to me he is interested in singing as much as he is in badminton. Long story short, the club is a mess and the fact that Konatsu should be the president make it a mess squared
So, Tari Tari has been consistent, because nobody really cared about the club. And as it has been already pointed out the members have no alchemy. And the reason is because it's like they have been put together randomly, out of necessity instead of a common interest. So I'm glad that so far no invisible force pushed them to be friends or to discover a natural love for choruses that nobody knew before. With this is mind I don't know how they could have focused on something that neither the protagonists cared about in the first place.

Going a bit further, the show seems to have a little dose of cynicism portraying our girls not caring for the male "friends". The only one who could have cared about at least of one of them is Sawa, but lately being absorbed by her issues didn't help her in staying focused. And apparently even the boys don't interact with each other. So again they are even a mess as a gang of friends. So what do I want to say here? Well, I don't know, but things so far are messy, really, so I don't know how the writers will patch up things staying coherent through the end. But do they intend to patch up things? I hope they don't. It feels refreshing this mess, so I want the end to be a mess too. (I'm saying that because I fear that in the near future the club will close ranks against its common and stronger enemy, i.e. an invisible force that will push them together etc etc etc).
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Old 2012-08-15, 11:59   Link #1036
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I think the intent of club element is as a catalyst to bring the cast together and get them closer to each other. I think that was already the case with Wakana, and I think will be the net effect with Sawa after this arc. I think that, in order to overcome the final barrier in the show (winning over the Vice Principal), they will have to band together one more time to sing the piece Wakana wrote with her Mom (mirroring the piece that Wakana's mom wrote with the Vice Principal).

I think the role the Choir Club played in the past is pretty instructive to this. It's a place where people had fun and important relationships were formed. Ref: the explanation from Sawa's mom to Wakana a few episodes back, and what we already know about the relationship between Wakana's mom and the Vice Principal. The Vice Principal acts like the most important thing about a music club is music itself, likely because love of music is what she took away from the influence of Wakana's mom. But I think the most important thing wasn't actually the music, but the friendship she made there. After Wakana's mom passed away, the VP probably feels that she's continuing in the legacy of what she'd want (helping others pursue a passion for music), but I think she's missing the heart and kindness of friendship (perhaps partly out of bitterness for losing her close friend).

So all that to say... I wouldn't say the story here is so messy or chaotic. Each of the characters has their own lives and their own worries, but they converge in this one particular club where they help each other out. Neither the club itself nor the music are really the central point, but it revolves more around a sort of nostalgia for a place that helped define their high school life -- for the children as with (some of) their parents.
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Old 2012-08-15, 13:16   Link #1037
SoFarGone
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Originally Posted by Blonto View Post
He's not the only one but he'd definitively be ideal for helping her with this, plus it would give more attention to his character. Two birds with one stone. He and Sawa are going through pretty much the same issues, except that Tanaka accepted he'd be better off with a more secure job. It'd be great to see them talk and help eachother out, hopefully without much crappy rushed romance.
hmm who else in the group knows about Sawa's dream? I don't remember her mentioning it to anyone else but Tanaka. I guess we can assume Konatsu knows since she is Sawa's best friend.
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Old 2012-08-15, 14:33   Link #1038
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So all that to say... I wouldn't say the story here is so messy or chaotic. Each of the characters has their own lives and their own worries, but they converge in this one particular club where they help each other out. Neither the club itself nor the music are really the central point, but it revolves more around a sort of nostalgia for a place that helped define their high school life -- for the children as with (some of) their parents.
That might very well be the case, but swap out choir club for any other sort of hobby and then the story is essentially almost the same. If it fails to incorporate it in a meaningful way, I find that disappointing. I actually thought the choir aspect was something nice about the show, irrespective of how pleasant the characters might me.

Also if it was about bringing people together, then why does it feel constantly like two of the members are constantly shafted (The guys?). They didn't even get invited to the opera this episode. Club unity? Where? I understand the importance of Wakana's episodes to the overall setup of this story, but now Sawa's feels tangential to the idea you're speaking of. This is the real first time the show has started waltzing away from its setup into something else that is not related whatsoever to the choir club (Wakana's drama at least had to do with why she wasn't singing, but Sawa's?).

Again, in a 2 cour show this wouldn't be a problem, but this is a cause for concern if they start branching out too much.

Furthermore if it is what you say it is, I also dearly hope they don't forget the other two members of their choir club. I don't think there'd be any excuse to not give them their just do. Although Wien might already be a hopeless cause.
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Old 2012-08-15, 14:37   Link #1039
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It may be because they haven't been developed much, but the guys do seem to be the least interesting... Well I guess that's kinda a vicious cycle: because they're underdeveloped they seem boring and thus won't be developed further?
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Old 2012-08-15, 14:45   Link #1040
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That might very well be the case, but swap out choir club for any other sort of hobby and then the story is essentially almost the same. If it fails to incorporate it in a meaningful way, I find that disappointing. I actually thought the choir aspect was something nice about the show, irrespective of how pleasant the characters might me.
Well, keep in mind that in the rest of my post that you didn't quote, I went into a rather lengthy speculation that explained why the music element is actually still important. It is a "meaningful element", but it's not the point of the show.

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Also if it was about bringing people together, then why does it feel constantly like two of the members are constantly shafted (The guys?). They didn't even get invited to the opera this episode. Club unity? Where?
That wasn't a "club activity", the three girls are friends. Plus, the dad had two tickets and she asked for one more. I'm not necessarily sure she would have been a position to get 5 tickets. It was just a girls night out, as it were. Don't see anything unusual about that. The two guys have hung out together before too without inviting the girls. I don't see the fact there's a lack of outside fraternizing between the genders as being particularly unrealistic, personally.


As for the rest... I'll just wait and see what role all the characters play in the end. As I said before, I don't see the point in fretting so much about whether the show is going to run out of time and do things poorly. Let's just see what they do first.
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