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Old 2012-08-15, 09:39   Link #221
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Remember when Windows had "Games for Windows Live" and people said that MS was locking down windows as a gaming machine?
It was. It still is major crap compared to steam. The only reason it's on the PC is that games like Bioshock 2 and Fallout 3 wanted it on. Thankfull, the GFWL trend is dying, most games just switch to steam's platform, which is less quirky or buggy. MS pushes something people don't like, eventually it'll be irrelevant. Every popular software I know that tried to push stuff on people ended up losing lots of users. Ok, except Apple, Apple's brainwashing still works. Then again, Apple never had that many users to begin with.
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Old 2012-08-15, 10:10   Link #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
It's lighter than W7 because it does away with the GDI 2d interfaces that were in W7, it's prefetching capabilities are great compared to its predecessor. And for AMD FX Series users: It has substantial gains, since W8 plays better with Multicore architectures.
I believe this is available as a patch for 7. Basically treats FX modules more like HyperThreaded Cores than two full cores.

Unless there is something more that I missed.
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Old 2012-08-15, 10:17   Link #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
I believe this is available as a patch for 7. Basically treats FX modules more like HyperThreaded Cores than two full cores.

Unless there is something more that I missed.
the W7 patch is what it is, a patch. W8 is inherently more optimized for multicore processing
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Old 2012-08-15, 10:52   Link #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
So basically, what your saying is that the businesses will have a hard time using the new interface, when in practice, the people don't even really use the start menu that much.

Again, I point back to the times when people didn't like the same start button in favor of the Program Manager: It's not that bad of a change since the Start Screen is just an improved Start Menu. Whereas back then, the differences between the Program Manager and the Start Menu were really big. In the Start Menu vs Start Screen comparison, It's the same menu presented in 3D-Acceleration, and hell the Start Screen can bring up the program you want faster than the Start Menu can, I've tried it using a 4 yr. old computer vs an i3 with 8GB RAM.

It's the same Start Menu, but with faster search times and more search options.
You don't work with business clients much, I'm guessing because nothing you said had anything to do with the problems businesses face. Businesses have special purpose software designed to meet their business needs. Some are not-so-portable, making OS upgrades something to be viewed with wariness. When you have, say, a pharmaceutical program that is intertwined with IE, Outlook, a database, an integrated phone system, and uses Windows library calls -- its a program that is considered "mission critical" and you cannot just assume you can "throw it on and if it doesn't crash it is fine" because it can kill people and that costs money....
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Old 2012-08-15, 12:03   Link #225
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^but that's just an excuse so they don't have to hire or train their IT staff( especially the programmers) or at least ask them to develop programs that are up to par., so why not blame the companies for their routines then?
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Old 2012-08-15, 12:19   Link #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
^but that's just an excuse so they don't have to hire or train their IT staff( especially the programmers) or at least ask them to develop programs that are up to par., so why not blame the companies for their routines then?
Get back to me after you've been in the business world for a while .... o.O
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Old 2012-08-15, 13:14   Link #227
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Get back to me after you've been in the business world for a while .... o.O
I bet he never had to deal with people who say they can no longer use their computer because the location of an icon on the desktop was changed, either (true story). Trust me, people like that are common in much of the business world.
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Old 2012-08-15, 13:55   Link #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
^but that's just an excuse so they don't have to hire or train their IT staff( especially the programmers) or at least ask them to develop programs that are up to par., so why not blame the companies for their routines then?
All good things are built on top of all the shitty things we've done. Free perfection just doesn't exist. All of today's goodies are tomorrows garbage.

The process for building near perfect complex system is extremely tedious and particularly volatile in software engineering where you almost always find some undocumented oddball case to deal with. If something hasn't failed before in a certain mystical fashion it's pretty hard to test or look for the failure. Needless to say time is money, so given how everything has a budget there's only a very limited time to do anything (especially in today's production-line spoiled sociaty where expectations are of fast delivery), therefore priorities have to be established; one thing is inevitably going to give way to another.

In general programmers (excluding dedicated code-nannies) who've worked on anything of some reasonable scale before are pretty assiduous when coding as-is. Sometimes what's lacking is simply order to the process, the tools... or just the money (ie. time) to get them. No matter how strong, a limping horse can only go so far.
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Old 2012-08-15, 15:00   Link #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
If MS can ... make the average user prefer it over desktop
If that's the case, then the whole locking down Windows becomes a non-issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
These kind of comments may have merit in the consumer market.... but changes like this have actual impact for business users --- training, desktop layout, etc. A business says, "The damn thing was working..." Hint: Microsoft gets a vast chunk of money from Fortune 500 corporations and more.
On that note, I think Microsoft is well aware that most companies are just starting to update to 7. So, while Microsoft would always pitch their latest OS to everyone, 8 is mostly a consumer play.

If 8 is successful with consumers, by the time more companies are ready to move beyond 7, they may find 8 (or whatever comes next for Windows) to be a suitable update, even with some training, and that's not even taking into account those with Software Assurance.
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I didn't say they'll lock the PC down in Windows 8. But should this thing actually succeed, you'll get it by Windows 10.
Not necessarily, Microsoft would have to make sure that WinRT can support more complex programs.

As long as there is a need for complex apps, including some of Microsoft's own programs, the desktop will always be there.
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Old 2012-08-15, 21:52   Link #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I bet he never had to deal with people who say they can no longer use their computer because the location of an icon on the desktop was changed, either (true story). Trust me, people like that are common in much of the business world.
And they're often in the 'executive corridor' (i.e. the CEO, etc)
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Old 2012-08-16, 14:04   Link #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I bet he never had to deal with people who say they can no longer use their computer because the location of an icon on the desktop was changed, either (true story). Trust me, people like that are common in much of the business world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
And they're often in the 'executive corridor' (i.e. the CEO, etc)
Not just the executive corridor. They are all over the place, less call center and tech dept.

There are major communications companies who are still using the XP operating system due to hardware costs if they switch to Windows 7; others were coaxed out of using the Vista because of OS issues.
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Old 2012-08-16, 23:08   Link #232
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I could bring up major oil companies that still use PDP-8 machines on critical infrastructure because they are intrinsically coupled to the system. Replacing them would cost a fortune... its better to keep a cadre of programmer engineers who can handle antiquities
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Old 2012-08-17, 12:02   Link #233
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Uh, has anyone mentioned about game compatibility with Win8? Leaves me wondering how much would work under this new environment, including some legacy programs (unless a virtual machine running XP would have to be used).
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Old 2012-08-17, 12:18   Link #234
npal
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Uh, has anyone mentioned about game compatibility with Win8? Leaves me wondering how much would work under this new environment, including some legacy programs (unless a virtual machine running XP would have to be used).
Most things work. Only thing that's not working so far in RC is L.A Noire I think. Didn't have a problem with anything else from what I can recall these past months. I'll wait for the RTM to come out in October to check again.
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Old 2012-08-18, 08:49   Link #235
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Uh, has anyone mentioned about game compatibility with Win8? Leaves me wondering how much would work under this new environment, including some legacy programs (unless a virtual machine running XP would have to be used).
I think only MMO's have a problem with Windows 8 right now, so far, anything that runs on Windows 7, runs well.
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Old 2012-08-18, 10:01   Link #236
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Is Windows 8 Microsoft's Riskiest Bet?
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Old 2012-08-18, 10:24   Link #237
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One thing I've noticed from videos is that this entire UI they have for windows 8 is not really designed for multi monitor setups, which is wierd as hell when you consider how many people these days use multi monitor setups; heck it's almost shoved in your face.

Windows 7 is abysmal at it too. No way to setup two desktops with out using a tiling trick, or how the jiggle-window-at-edge of screen is suppose to work when you're on the second monitor, various non-existent options for working with two monitors, to give just a few examples.

And here comes windows 8 with even more annoying "only use first monitor", "we use edges... uh what's this thing called a second monitor?", "just go to the edge for menu... oh wait no too far, you're in the second monitor". Why are multi-monitor setups ignored so much?

Speaking of multi-monitor support, how's linux and mac doing on this?
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Old 2012-08-18, 10:47   Link #238
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Don't bother with hot corners. Keyboard shortcuts. They are a lot faster than using a mouse. WinKey brings up StartScreen/Search, WinKey+C the Charms thing.

Linux, probably depends. I use openSUSE, I don't think its any worse or better than Windows.

OS X, worse than Windows apparently. Mountain Lion apparently fixes things with full screen mode greying out other monitors.

Multi-monitor setups are generally ignored since people generally don't use them.
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Old 2012-08-18, 10:58   Link #239
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Linux has good multi-monitor support since it is built on X. Some graphics adapters and their drivers do a better job than others, NVIDIA in particular. Improving support for multiple monitors is one of Canonical's priority development areas for Ubuntu, but here's a YouTube video from 2009 with Ubuntu+Compiz running on six displays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Multi-monitor setups are generally ignored since people home users generally don't use them.
If you walked into the offices of system administrators and application developers, you'd see a lot of multi-monitor setups.
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Old 2012-08-18, 11:13   Link #240
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Don't bother with hot corners. Keyboard shortcuts. They are a lot faster than using a mouse. WinKey brings up StartScreen/Search, WinKey+C the Charms thing.
I do use shortcuts (winkey+d, winkey+e, winkey+1,2,3, etc). But is there a windows shortcut for placing a windows on the first half a screen when on the second monitor? On windows XP I remember you could just Ctrl select things and have them tile; not sure if you can do that anymore.
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