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Old 2012-08-15, 01:56   Link #21
Anh_Minh
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I'm guessing you don't need much damage to your brain to kill you. Actually cooking it would certainly be overkill.

Especially when it can target a specific area of your brain. It just has to get a really critical one.
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Old 2012-08-15, 03:24   Link #22
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm guessing you don't need much damage to your brain to kill you. Actually cooking it would certainly be overkill.

Especially when it can target a specific area of your brain. It just has to get a really critical one.
True, but if the microwave doesn't do that much damage, how could it affect the brain so fast? We're talking about the bare minimum split second it would take to pull the NervGear out. We came back to jcdietz notion.
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Old 2012-08-15, 04:05   Link #23
Anh_Minh
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That thing's strapped on. It'd take more than a second to undo the strap.
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Old 2012-08-15, 05:07   Link #24
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
That thing's strapped on. It'd take more than a second to undo the strap.
Ah, I see, I missed that detail. The safety feature becomes the death trap lol.

Right, let's talk about that sensor then. How does the NervGear detect attempts to remove it?
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Old 2012-08-15, 15:20   Link #25
jcdietz03
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Another problem is that of feedback. There's no way Kayaba could know whether someone the program tried to kill was successfully killed or not IF the helmet was removed quickly enough. All he knows is:
1) someone tried to remove their helmet
2) they're not in the game anymore

Obviously the people who die in the game (with their helmet on) will have their helmet on long enough for it to observe their brain ceasing to function (thus confirming their death).

I see a punishment system (the system randomly kills X people if someone escapes) being more plausible than "it's impossible to escape."

Anyone have ideas about:
1) What lag looks like?
2) What happens if you disconnect in combat? Do you return in the "town of beginnings?"
I see the game being fairly forgiving in these aspects (because it's fundamentally fair). Those aspects can't be controlled or exploited by the player, so there's nothing lost by being lenient.
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Old 2012-08-15, 15:40   Link #26
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
2) What happens if you disconnect in combat? Do you return in the "town of beginnings?"
... You die. Same as if you disconnect in any other situation.

Yeah, they'd better hope their network is really good.

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2012-08-15 at 15:52. Reason: spoilers
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Old 2012-08-15, 16:17   Link #27
M1sFyr3
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Or they had to hope that the government paid enough attention to spend resources on getting them stable, solid connections
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Old 2012-08-16, 07:59   Link #28
n120cky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra View Post
Maybe it is one of those games which have a lot of pre-made guild emblems that you could choose from.

edit: didn't check date of post, oh well
Well it is possible, but it will be cool if SAO has art element in it's feature ex : painting, music, or even cooking (which is we already know it's there).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
... You die. Same as if you disconnect in any other situation.

Yeah, they'd better hope their network is really good.
I thought player only die when they die in game, I bet nervGear can detect the difference between disconnected and killed in action.
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Old 2012-08-16, 08:01   Link #29
Clarste
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If he let them disconnect it'd be an easy way for them to escape.
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Old 2012-08-16, 08:07   Link #30
n120cky
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Being disconnected is not same with freed from the game, at least nervGear can do maximum timeout if a player disconnected from the game, before it fried user brains.
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Old 2012-08-16, 17:00   Link #31
Shimapan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
People in-game can't take off the NervGear because it is interrupting their brain's signals to their body. Most of them anyway. I don't really understand why you would die if someone outside the game forcibly removed your NervGear. You would only die if the NervGear was given time to kill you (with no one around to help you).
Yes, the helmet would need some time to fry the brain, just like a microwave oven needs some time as well to cook food - it's not cooked the moment you put it in.
Getting microwave emitters in the helmet (which can harm and possibly even kill people) past any safety controls should be pretty hard as well, so they can't be very strong, so as not to violate any safety guidelines. As such, the helmet would probably need at least one minute of constant radiation to kill someone. That might not be that long, if someone is all by himself. However, as everyone is now in closely monitored intensive care, that can easily be avoided. There can be an alarm once the radiation starts, with the helmet being removed quickly. Straps on the helmet can be removed beforehand for all, so the helmet can be removed quickly.

In short, there's no good reason why they would allow people being kept hostages by Kabaya and not pull off their helmets immediately. Even if there was some sort of penalty for the remaining players, once you started taking the helmets off (which isn't there, as it was never mentioned). You'd just need enough people, 10,000 at most, to pull off all helmets simultaneously in one synchronized move.

Overall, that "instantly fries brain"-stuff wasn't thought through very well. Then, we never even get to know why they don't do anything about Kabaya, and the hostage situation is going on for two years already.
Even if there *was* something that would keep the players ingame (which there isn't, as the "instand fry"-stuff is nonsensical), at the very latest at the point that the 2,000 players died right at the beginning, there would be a huge global outcry. When was the last time a psychopathic mass murderer murdered 2000 people and more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
Another problem is that of feedback. There's no way Kayaba could know whether someone the program tried to kill was successfully killed or not IF the helmet was removed quickly enough. All he knows is:
1) someone tried to remove their helmet
2) they're not in the game anymore

Obviously the people who die in the game (with their helmet on) will have their helmet on long enough for it to observe their brain ceasing to function (thus confirming their death).
True, it would require some time for the helmet to kill anyone, and it would also require some sort of special sensors to tell that it really worked and the person is indeed dead.
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Old 2012-08-16, 17:30   Link #32
Xellos-_^
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it takes 10 seconds as that is how long a player has to use the resurrection item.
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Old 2012-08-16, 17:40   Link #33
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
... You die. Same as if you disconnect in any other situation.

Yeah, they'd better hope their network is really good.
......Why am I imagining an advertisement of an ISP from this comment?

"Connect or die. Choose xxx as your reliable ISP!"

Anyways, how has the internet service progressed in universe? Do they already have some kind of a free-for-all global network in place already?
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:18   Link #34
Znail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
Yes, the helmet would need some time to fry the brain, just like a microwave oven needs some time as well to cook food - it's not cooked the moment you put it in.
Getting microwave emitters in the helmet (which can harm and possibly even kill people) past any safety controls should be pretty hard as well, so they can't be very strong, so as not to violate any safety guidelines. As such, the helmet would probably need at least one minute of constant radiation to kill someone. That might not be that long, if someone is all by himself. However, as everyone is now in closely monitored intensive care, that can easily be avoided. There can be an alarm once the radiation starts, with the helmet being removed quickly. Straps on the helmet can be removed beforehand for all, so the helmet can be removed quickly.

In short, there's no good reason why they would allow people being kept hostages by Kabaya and not pull off their helmets immediately. Even if there was some sort of penalty for the remaining players, once you started taking the helmets off (which isn't there, as it was never mentioned). You'd just need enough people, 10,000 at most, to pull off all helmets simultaneously in one synchronized move.

Overall, that "instantly fries brain"-stuff wasn't thought through very well. Then, we never even get to know why they don't do anything about Kabaya, and the hostage situation is going on for two years already.
Even if there *was* something that would keep the players ingame (which there isn't, as the "instand fry"-stuff is nonsensical), at the very latest at the point that the 2,000 players died right at the beginning, there would be a huge global outcry. When was the last time a psychopathic mass murderer murdered 2000 people and more?



True, it would require some time for the helmet to kill anyone, and it would also require some sort of special sensors to tell that it really worked and the person is indeed dead.
What safety controls? Do you know of any country that has safety controlls for entertainment consoles? Exactly what kind of products do you think actually require coverment approval before release? There are actually some, but it's very limited and that is medical machinery for use at hospitals. Household appliances are not checked if they could fry someones brain if missused.

If you look at episode 1 so is it more then just straps that keeps the nervegear stuck on the head. But I guess that doesn't matter as your argument is based on the idea that you would somehow be unable to put a sufficiently strong microwave emitter in there due to some by you invented govement control agency that checks game consoles for safety.
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:31   Link #35
lightbringer
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Before even considering whether a helmet could fry your brain or not, there's the question of how such a helmet would be manufactured in secret with no one leaking its lethal capabilities and no health inspection or regulatory safety testing done on the device. From the specs alone (battery size, microwave, whatever) it would seem pretty shady. Even considering that governments are normally far behind the tech wave, I believe the device would fail on regulatory and manufacturing grounds rather than due to the technical aspect of it.

Although the aspect of "a microwave powerful enough to instantly fry your brain but small enough to comfortably fit into a helmet" is certainly highly questionable as well even if we factor in technological advances.

Obviously in the SAO world we suspend our disbelief since it's basically a plot device needed for the setting of "people trapped in an MMO death game" but I guess this is not the thread to mention that particular aspect of it.
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:41   Link #36
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
it takes 10 seconds as that is how long a player has to use the resurrection item.
It takes 10 seconds from a player death to the helmet emitting the microwave, after which, you're instantly dead.

There's no way the 10 seconds is the time it takes to fry your brain, because the revival item would be pointless as you would be brain damaged when you revived and one would wish they died outright instead.
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:43   Link #37
Adigard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
In short, there's no good reason why they would allow people being kept hostages by Kabaya and not pull off their helmets immediately. Even if there was some sort of penalty for the remaining players, once you started taking the helmets off (which isn't there, as it was never mentioned). You'd just need enough people, 10,000 at most, to pull off all helmets simultaneously in one synchronized move.

Overall, that "instantly fries brain"-stuff wasn't thought through very well. Then, we never even get to know why they don't do anything about Kabaya, and the hostage situation is going on for two years already.
Even if there *was* something that would keep the players ingame (which there isn't, as the "instand fry"-stuff is nonsensical), at the very latest at the point that the 2,000 players died right at the beginning, there would be a huge global outcry. When was the last time a psychopathic mass murderer murdered 2000 people and more?
Welcome to the setting of the story. I'm not sure what else to tell you? It certainly hasn't been even vaguely important in the anime. Since we haven't spent a single second in the real world since Kirito turned on SAO we don't actually know WHY the player's are still stuck inside.

I think we can all agree it's unlikely, but it is the setting.
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:48   Link #38
erneiz_hyde
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Well, it IS a speculation thread isn't it?

What would be the point of the thread if we can't speculah?
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:49   Link #39
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
Before even considering whether a helmet could fry your brain or not, there's the question of how such a helmet would be manufactured in secret with no one leaking its lethal capabilities and no health inspection or regulatory safety testing done on the device. From the specs alone (battery size, microwave, whatever) it would seem pretty shady. Even considering that governments are normally far behind the tech wave, I believe the device would fail on regulatory and manufacturing grounds rather than due to the technical aspect of it.

who said anything about manufacturing in secret? The company that does the manufacturing just assemble the device. Do you really the worker putting this stuff together is going to wonder if it being use to kill people?

As for inspection, how many inspectors form the various government agency have go to China and check up on the iPhone factory?

The government is told this is a toy, a game console. Why would the government think otherwise?
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Old 2012-08-16, 18:53   Link #40
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
who said anything about manufacturing in secret? The company that does the manufacturing just assemble the device. Do you really the worker putting this stuff together is going to wonder if it being use to kill people?

As for inspection, how many inspectors form the various government agency have go to China and check up on the iPhone factory?

The government is told this is a toy, a game console. Why would the government think otherwise?
True.

Besides, there's nothing money can't buy anyways. even silence
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