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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 06
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 21 15.22%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 28 20.29%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 42 30.43%
7 out of 10 : Good... 24 17.39%
6 out of 10 : Average... 13 9.42%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 4 2.90%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 3 2.17%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 3 2.17%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-08-16, 09:24   Link #261
Quadratic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPopo View Post
Kirito could have been a huge help to Klein and co due to his knowledge as a beta tester, the problem is that he would have lost valuable time not leveling/ finding the best grinding spots. In episode 4, he takes valuable time to hunt a low level PK guild, time which could have been better spent grinding. The end result sacrifice would have been the same.
At low levels it's crucial to level up quickly since everyone's about the same level competing for the same resources. The fact is that he was willing take 1 person, but more than that would be detrimental to his own survival. By the time ep 3/4 comes around, Kirito has leveled passed the majority, so he has more breathing room to relax. The fact he went after the PK guild shows the difference in level by the sole fact that he "abandoned" Klein.
Compare against the PKers in ep 6, he knew not to take them on since their difference in levels were smaller (I would bank on him taking them on if he knew he could win)

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Originally Posted by MrPopo View Post
As for the bit with Silica, he was being more cautious this time around what with giving her better equips and a teleportation crystal, as well as not actively hiding his high level. These are all little things that serve to show Kirito being more careful as a result of what happened with the Black Cats.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the whole cousin thing related to Silica alone? It had no relevance as to why Kirito agreed to hunt down the PK guild in the first place.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Black Cats at least somewhat motivated him to take the detour in episode 4. Kirito could have easily thrown in a line that would have connected the two episodes together.
Good points, not a complete stretch, though I felt he just had a sense of justice since his situation differed from the guild leader's. The guy's guild members were murdered, and Kirito seeked to avenge them on his behalf. Who would Kirito be avenging against in his own situation? Himself?

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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I was talking about people hunting Kirito down for being a beater. PK guilds exist, but they surely don't care who's a beater or not. They either don't take the threat of death seriously or they're actual serial killers who enjoy killing people. Neither of those groups would bother to hunt down a high level clearer out of perceived revenge for the deaths of others due to not sharing information.

Also, PK guilds would be incredibly rare. It takes a certain kind of sociopathy to even take the risk of killing someone, regardless of whether or not you personally believe it.
But a few people agreed with the 'douche' in episode 2 (you hear agreement in the crowd). These guys were the frontliners at that point. In their eyes, he's suppose to be responsible for many deaths but they're ok with it.

Also, play Diablo 3 in hardcore mode. Hint: it's a co-op game and once your char dies, you have to start a new one (in hardcore mode, that is), yet people have found ways to grief other hardcore mode players (ok, not guilds, but there's a lot people who are willing to grief).
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Old 2012-08-16, 09:29   Link #262
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
But a few people agreed with the 'douche' in episode 2 (you hear agreement in the crowd). These guys were the frontliners at that point. In their eyes, he's suppose to be responsible for many deaths but they're ok with it.

Also, play Diablo 3 in hardcore mode. Hint: it's a co-op game and once your char dies, you have to start a new one (in hardcore mode, that is), yet people have found ways to grief other hardcore mode players (ok, not guilds, but there's a lot people who are willing to grief).
Maybe I'm just naive, but I've always assumed that despite all the people on the internet using violent language or griefing each other in games, crossing the line into actual murder would be somewhat rarer. Especially when having another skilled player on your side may be your only chance of survival and/or escape.
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Old 2012-08-16, 09:47   Link #263
Adigard
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Shouldn't they be though? I mean, what if high-level members of a PK-Guild anonymously infiltrates the clearer group and target players as they're in heavy damage fighting bosses?.
I imagine they'd be jailed? No? We know from the beast-tamer episode that there is some form of player-run or administered jail. we don't have particulars yet, but we know exists.

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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Also, what do you think will happen if someone who acts like Leroy Jenkins join the clearing battles?
I would assume the immediate threat of dying would stop much of that behavior. In addition I think such people would have been wiped out in the opening months. Anyone around a year+ later probably has adjusted (whatever their definition of adjustment is).

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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Regardless, these few 'sociopaths' are a lot more dangerous than you seem to be willing to give them credit. Because, like all the rest, they are trapped within the game too, and it's what they do for fun. Also, they might not hunt Kirito down for reasons you stated, but what's stopping them to "feel like PK-ing this guy cause he seems so full of himself" or for "who's your daddy now" or simply "for the lulz"?
The average PK'er is probably preying on the people left in the starter city, or preying on the mid-level players where the threat of overpowered player's coming down and squashing them (a la Kirito in the beast tamer ep) is low. The more powerful PK groups (a la Laughing Coffin) are probably MUCH more careful in who they target.

I hate the LN v. Anime comparisions, because they are so pointless, but the LN did address this. Kirito was the victim of a MPK attempt on day one over something silly.
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Old 2012-08-16, 10:12   Link #264
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
I imagine they'd be jailed? No? We know from the beast-tamer episode that there is some form of player-run or administered jail. we don't have particulars yet, but we know exists.
That is if they actually got caught in the act. The point of my example is that so these PKer could backstab everyone in the room as they finished fighting the bosses (thus has low HP), return and said "the plan failed, the boss killed everyone". It's a possible scenario regardless of if it actually would work. Anyways, this is not the point of what I said, continuing:

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Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
I would assume the immediate threat of dying would stop much of that behavior. In addition I think such people would have been wiped out in the opening months. Anyone around a year+ later probably has adjusted (whatever their definition of adjustment is).
You are probably right. But read the bottom part of my post for this.

The point is the front-line fighters couldn't have afforded to accept just anyone to their group. They have to be a rock-solid team with good coordination and team work. And that couldn't have happened with just anyone.

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Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
The average PK'er is probably preying on the people left in the starter city, or preying on the mid-level players where the threat of overpowered player's coming down and squashing them (a la Kirito in the beast tamer ep) is low. The more powerful PK groups (a la Laughing Coffin) are probably MUCH more careful in who they target.

I hate the LN v. Anime comparisions, because they are so pointless, but the LN did address this. Kirito was the victim of a MPK attempt on day one over something silly.
Exactly my point right? And why wouldn't it happen again?

Anyways, pardon me, but it seems you guys have been talking about risk of PK for Kirito specifically. I misunderstood that part so I've been speaking about the threat of PKs for the general populace, not specific individuals or groups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste
Maybe I'm just naive, but I've always assumed that despite all the people on the internet using violent language or griefing each other in games, crossing the line into actual murder would be somewhat rarer. Especially when having another skilled player on your side may be your only chance of survival and/or escape.
I have faith in humanity that in any kind of situation, someone somewhere can always find a way to be stupid, doing it exceeding all kinds of expectations, and actually numbering in quite a few.
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Old 2012-08-16, 10:15   Link #265
Triple_R
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My view on Kirito is that he's not a "solo player" because he's downright anti-social. He's a "solo player" because he deeply values his freedom and independence. He's probably not keen on being a fully integrated part of a militaristic force. The clearers have a slight militaristic vibe to them, as we see by how Asuna could order people around like a military commander, and as we also see by the very terminology of "front lines".

Some SAO players probably take comfort in the idea of truly belonging to a group dedicated to clearing the game and rejoining the real world. They may in fact like the sense of order and structure that the militaristic feel of the "front lines" gives them, as this sense of order cancels out the overwhelming sense of disruption caused simply by being trapped in SAO and cut off from the real world for so long.

I think Kirito prefers to act on the periphery, to help out where he can, but also to feel the freedom to do as he pleases within the game and not be heavily relied upon by others. That makes some sense given what happened back in Episode 3, of course.

My sense is that the clearers tolerate this about Kirito because he's good and proficient at what he does. While he comes and goes as he pleases, he can be very helpful during big missions, and he's not a bad guy.
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Old 2012-08-16, 10:47   Link #266
willx
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I'm surprised at the level of arguments that have arisen due to this one episode, and largely due to it seems because @Quadratic and some others are unsatisfied with the direction the anime is taking. I think I will repeat my quote from posts prior, this is how the anime looks like it is treating the story:

Quote:
Re: "Get on with the main plot already!"

^ I think some people are failing to understand that the setting is.. "You're all stuck in this game until it's finished. Now.. live your lives in here!" so all of this "Life inside the game" is all really kind of part of the plot..
Inevitably, one must separate disagreements of writing and plot development, as compared to, personal feelings related to 1) views on how characters SHOULD act or be portrayed and (more delicately) 2) unconscious personal projections onto those characters.

I will say that from my opinion, although there were tweaks made, what I've seen thus far has been a good job of integrating what were "side-stories" back into the main story in a chronological order, and also reveals hints about the characters changing and developing.

The experiences till now, up to and including this episode, serve as experiences for our cast.. as well as broaden their understanding of SAO. People are living and dying. They're people with their own personality quirks and issues. What was once a game is now a "real" world, with the added veil of a certain degree of detachment.. so perhaps "true colors" or "base human instincts" are coming to the fore.. As a viewer we learn about all this, and frankly, some of this is probably news to our beloved Kirito and Asuna as well.. Learn about human nature kids, including it's dark side.. you're only 15/16 after all..

Spoiler for Current Light Novel & SS being tweaked to be more integrated:
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Old 2012-08-16, 11:34   Link #267
arkon
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post

He was technically "exiled" at the end of ep 2. Before that he's just a normal solo player.
After ep 2, we see no effect regarding his "exile"/"beater" status, since he had zero problems joining up with the Black Cats, Silica, and join in the meeting with the frontline!
The lack of show, don't tell is apparent:
"I'm a solo player" -> parties with Klein
"I'm a solo player" -> joins a guild
"I'm a solo player" -> parties with Silica
"I'm a solo player" -> parties with Asuna
(Trust me, he really is a solo player!)
His soloing is nearly all off-screen.
Surely almost all solo players are self-exiled loners or rather self-imposed exile. I think there's too much emphasis being placed on the exiled thing (and I'm guilty of it too I suppose ). I can't really speak for relentlessflame but my posts have taken that to mean the soloer aspect of Kirito.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the examples there.

We've been shown throughout the series so far that Kirito is not averse to joining up with others in order to help people out or when it serves his interests (such as clearing the boss floors). In the first episode where he "parties" with Klein, he's stood out in a field showing him the basics after he's been specifically asked for help. This essentially sets the precedent for things to come. This guy has asked for help and Kirito is not refusing it

The guild... well this is assumption as we don't get inside his head as to reasons he's joined up. My assumption is that he's either wanting to try out what the experience is like for himself. From what they talk about at the start of the episode, it sounds like he helped them out of a tight situation and that leads them to ask him for some more help... I guess his defensiveness is sufficiently broken down in that situation (although not entirely--with the whole hiding his level thing) to do it. It's a bit flimsy. I will give you this one.

We also see him go for the special boss solo, even after Klein's group follows him and offers to help Kirito. He simply refuses that help. Obviously events transpire in such a way that he manages to slip away and square up with the boss. You could say he's doing it almost as a form of self-punishment by trying to right his own wrongdoing (I caused this so I should fix this). Still it's another example of him going solo and we are shown it, if not the whole encounter.

Silica - he uses her as bait to capture those guys, after he's heard the story from the defeated guild leader. We see the solo aspect here as well. He's gone after these guys on his own out of his own sense of justice and fairness, but obviously he needs Silica to draw them out. So I do think it's disingenous to basically say "he's partying with Silica - solo player lol" when the reason he's doing it is because he's going solo in the first place to help that guild leader out.

Asuna - they essentially party up to carry out this investigation together. She does approach him rather forcefully to say that he will be helping her, and as per previous precedent we've been shown that Kirito is not averse to helping people out. I suppose you could also argue that he's also trying to figure out how the PK was done, because as we see he strongly believes in the game's fairness and want to show that it still is fair.

In most of the cases here - they almost always approach Kirito first and he doesn't deny these people his help.

Last edited by arkon; 2012-08-16 at 11:53.
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Old 2012-08-16, 12:48   Link #268
Adigard
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Originally Posted by arkon View Post
We also see him go for the special boss solo, even after Klein's group follows him and offers to help Kirito. He simply refuses that help. Obviously events transpire in such a way that he manages to slip away and square up with the boss. You could say he's doing it almost as a form of self-punishment by trying to right his own wrongdoing (I caused this so I should fix this). Still it's another example of him going solo and we are shown it, if not the whole encounter.
This episode actually does a solid job of answering why Kirito would challenge the boss solo.

He's fighting the boss specifically for the resurrection object. If the item drops into the loot pool of a player, and Kirito joins a nine party guild to defeat the boss, the odds he'll get the object are 10%. Those aren't good odds.

That's ignoring the fact that, as this arc shows, loot drama would occur. Someone could simply keep the res. item without saying a word, and everyone would assume it never dropped / was a silly rumor. As an outside in Klein's guild, even if Klein likes Kirito there is no guarantee Klein's guild mates would help Kirito.

Of course Kirito is going to challenge the boss solo. By the same token Kirito can't possibly hope to explain to 9 other player's the importance of saving this one single dead girl when every single player in SAO has likely seen friends die.

Odd, it's almost like the show is trying to follow the whole "show, don't tell" approach.
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Old 2012-08-16, 13:25   Link #269
MrPopo
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
At low levels it's crucial to level up quickly since everyone's about the same level competing for the same resources. The fact is that he was willing take 1 person, but more than that would be detrimental to his own survival. By the time ep 3/4 comes around, Kirito has leveled passed the majority, so he has more breathing room to relax. The fact he went after the PK guild shows the difference in level by the sole fact that he "abandoned" Klein.
Compare against the PKers in ep 6, he knew not to take them on since their difference in levels were smaller (I would bank on him taking them on if he knew he could win)
I suppose you can argue that helping Klein would have been more dangerous than going after the PK guild. However, a lack of information makes it difficult to contest whether or not the difference in danger is really all that important. For example, we're told that in the first month 2000 people died, but we don't know how many of those were due to carelessness, suicide, outside intervention, or PKing, the last point being the main source of danger. If a majority of those deaths were due to PKing, then there would be a cause for concern, but we don't know this. If otherwise, then the only real loss here is time, which is a sacrifice made in both scenarios we're comparing.

In addition, Kirito wasn't labelled as a beater back then so there was less danger of being PKed. In episode four however, that danger is ever looming so time taken away from grinding may be even more precious than it was back then.

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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
I felt he just had a sense of justice since his situation differed from the guild leader's. The guy's guild members were murdered, and Kirito seeked to avenge them on his behalf. Who would Kirito be avenging against in his own situation? Himself?
Their situations aren't all that different, both are the sole survivors of their guilds. The only difference was that one guild was wiped by mobs and another by PKers. His sense of justice was spurred by his desire to get closure, any closure on his failure involving the Black Cats. Given the parallels between their situations, it's not unreasonable to assume that that was the primary motive for Kirito's undertaking.
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Originally Posted by willx View Post

Inevitably, one must separate disagreements of writing and plot development, as compared to, personal feelings related to 1) views on how characters SHOULD act or be portrayed and (more delicately) 2) unconscious personal projections onto those characters.
I do think that this is the primary point of contention here. It seems that a lot of people aren't happy that we're getting very little focus on the soloing/beater aspect of the story. However I've been under the impression that that's not what these side stories were really about. Rather I think the main focus here is how different people react to this stressful situation they're presented with. We've seen scapegoating, anxiety, escapism vs. reality, and batshit insanity. It's quite the range already.
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Old 2012-08-16, 14:03   Link #270
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by MrPopo View Post
I suppose you can argue that helping Klein would have been more dangerous than going after the PK guild. However, a lack of information makes it difficult to contest whether or not the difference in danger is really all that important. For example, we're told that in the first month 2000 people died, but we don't know how many of those were due to carelessness, suicide, outside intervention, or PKing, the last point being the main source of danger. If a majority of those deaths were due to PKing, then there would be a cause for concern, but we don't know this. If otherwise, then the only real loss here is time, which is a sacrifice made in both scenarios we're comparing.

In addition, Kirito wasn't labelled as a beater back then so there was less danger of being PKed. In episode four however, that danger is ever looming so time taken away from grinding may be even more precious than it was back then.
I don't think PKing was a problem yet. Not a major one. The problems were, quite simply, the inability to adapt to the situation (whether that meant suicide or the kind of carelessness you see in games), and the lack of information. The game was completely new, and a small mistake could be deadly.

And it's easy to see how helping Klein was dangerous, but going after Titan's hand wasn't. He wasn't without info on the latter's members, so he could judge his level sufficient. But at the beginning, they were all low level players. They hadn't been able to overlevel the way they would afterward, so he had very little margin to start with.
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Old 2012-08-16, 14:10   Link #271
Znail
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And about the danger of helping Klein, so wasn't it the danger to himself that he was worried about, it was the difficult of protecting multiple people while traveling.
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Old 2012-08-16, 14:43   Link #272
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I think Kirito had enough closure with the Black Cats after receiving Sacchis crystal and he helped the other guy out because he sympathized with him.

Also, aren't you to focused on the beater thing? Sure in the beginning it might have caused him some problems, but after they outplayed the beta it's more or less an even field. Currently I think it's just a insulting term just like noobs or so.
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Old 2012-08-16, 14:46   Link #273
Anh_Minh
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I think being a beater is a bit like being gay. Some assholes are going to care, but most people are too busy with their own things to give a damn.
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Old 2012-08-16, 15:21   Link #274
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't think PKing was a problem yet. Not a major one. The problems were, quite simply, the inability to adapt to the situation (whether that meant suicide or the kind of carelessness you see in games), and the lack of information. The game was completely new, and a small mistake could be deadly.
Kirito was a beta tester though, so they weren't without information. Sure some things may have been different in the final version of the game, but he was able to get to the better grinding spots safety so I assume the changes weren't all that impactful. Also, if PKing wasn't a real problem, then I don't see what was so dangerous about helping Klein. All the things you listed are things that could have been avoided if they took things slow.


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Originally Posted by Vocah View Post
I think Kirito had enough closure with the Black Cats after receiving Sacchis crystal and he helped the other guy out because he sympathized with him.
When I said closure, I meant something along the lines of redemption, where doing a good deed would help counterbalance his previous failure.

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Originally Posted by Vocah View Post
Also, aren't you to focused on the beater thing? Sure in the beginning it might have caused him some problems, but after they outplayed the beta it's more or less an even field. Currently I think it's just a insulting term just like noobs or so.
It isn't an issue of practicality. Some people just hate on others because of any number of silly reasons, no matter how irrational. In such a tension-filled environment, that hate would have even more of a chance to escalate into something serious.

On another note, I had initially brought up these specific points of the show as a means to argue about something else. I realize I'm kinda going off topic and addressing specifics not related to this episode. So I'll stop now
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Old 2012-08-16, 15:40   Link #275
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by MrPopo View Post
Kirito was a beta tester though, so they weren't without information. Sure some things may have been different in the final version of the game,
The subtlest differences were the most dangerous.

Spoiler for novel aria in the starless night:


Quote:
but he was able to get to the better grinding spots safety so I assume the changes weren't all that impactful.
You were asking about the 2000 deaths in the first two months, not the danger to Kirito.

Quote:
Also, if PKing wasn't a real problem, then I don't see what was so dangerous about helping Klein. All the things you listed are things that could have been avoided if they took things slow.
I said it wasn't a problem then. That's not the same as "it would never be". Kirito just didn't want to be stuck with the masses. He wanted to be as strong as possible, as fast as possible.
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Old 2012-08-16, 15:52   Link #276
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I haven't read the LN, nor do I feel it's necessary to use it as a means to analyze the anime.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
You were asking about the 2000 deaths in the first two months, not the danger to Kirito.
The lack of danger to Kirito is what I've been arguing this whole time. I actually do think that helping Klein would have been the more dangerous option, I was simply arguing that I don't think the danger was that much more significant.
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Old 2012-08-16, 16:07   Link #277
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by MrPopo View Post
I haven't read the LN, nor do I feel it's necessary to use it as a means to analyze the anime.


The lack of danger to Kirito is what I've been arguing this whole time. I actually do think that helping Klein would have been the more dangerous option, I was simply arguing that I don't think the danger was that much more significant.
It's hard to say if it would have been dangerous, as such. It would have slowed him down. It's also possible he miscalculated by how much. Maybe it wouldn't have been that bad, or maybe he could have made up the time later. It's also possible that instead of being an elite among elites, he'd have been a more normal clearer like Klein.

Or maybe - though that kind of reasoning is a bit too convenient - the first attempt on the boss room, without him, would have resulted in total wipe out, plunging everyone into despair. And they'd never have gotten the guts to try again. Which sounds pretty dangerous, in its own way.
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Old 2012-08-16, 16:08   Link #278
Shimapan
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
After ep 2, we see no effect regarding his "exile"/"beater" status, since he had zero problems joining up with the Black Cats, Silica, and join in the meeting with the frontline!
The lack of show, don't tell is apparent:
"I'm a solo player" -> parties with Klein
"I'm a solo player" -> joins a guild
"I'm a solo player" -> parties with Silica
"I'm a solo player" -> parties with Asuna
(Trust me, he really is a solo player!)
His soloing is nearly all off-screen.
True, for supposedly being a solo player, he teams up quite often.

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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
How about no? There's plenty to things to explore without showing "grinding", which you think is want I want, which isn't true at all.
If he's a beater, he should be detested and some people would try to PK him. But no one's after him, AND he's accepted in the front line without complaints (well, other than Asuna).
How does he compete for xp against other parties? We're told he only goes for easy/soloable targets, yet group parties would actually fight the same foes to lessen the risk of death.
Yes, he's got a very bad reputation at the beginning, yet we see no consequences of it whatsoever. One would expect that there are indeed some people trying to PK him because of that.
Or, if they don't want to do the deed himself, they'll just hire a PK death squad like Laughing Coffin to murder the person. As we've seen a single person holding a grudge is enough already, regardless how ludicrous the reason for the grudge is. Grimlock had a grudge against Griselda just because she turned out to be a different person that what he wanted her to be, so he had her murdered by Laughing coffin.

Thus we see that PK guilds do take assassination requests, and that they're not picky when it comes to the reasons for it - they probably don't care.
Now LC didn't have the slightest problem to murder Griselda, a well-respected guild member. How much easier must it be for them to murder someone who is a solo player and not well liked by several people?
We've already seen that Kirito wouldn't be able to deal with LC, if he would be all by himself (hence the bluff about other front liners coming) - and he *would* be all by himself, all the time, as a solo player!

As such, if he really would be a solo player, he would be in constant danger of being assassinated, given his bad reputation at the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Of course, knowing the format of this show, they'll probably not be explore these parts and it'll just be left up to the audience to fill in the blanks.
Treu, there are a lot of blanks for the audience to fill in. This whole thing reeks of a "make stuff up as I go"-storytelling by the author, in which nothing was planned out beforehand, but where he simply makes stuff up as he goes, just as his story requires it. Many of the stuff made up in situ is then promptly discarded again, once it has served its usefulness, to never be heard of again - like e.g. the pet revival flower. He just made up the ideas of pets in the spot, because the story required it for Silica to be even cuter. Then he decided he needed some more drama, so he had her pet die, and Kirito then conveniently knows where there's a pet revival flower, even though he'd never seend a pet before in the game. Super-Kirito saves the day again! I seriously doubt we'll hear of pets again, they have fulfilled their role of making Silica even cuter and can thus drop off the face of earth, err, Arcrad again.

At the beginning Kirito was portrayed as a solo player to make him look tougher. Look, Super-Kirito can take on anything by himself, he doesn't need a guild. As with many other things as well, this was done without any regards of the implications thereof.
His supposed solo player status was then simply ignored on several occassions, just so he could team up with others whenever the story required it. Having him a solo players isn't too practical, after all.

As I pointed out above, being a solo player would also be very dangerous in hindsight, with the PK guilds which the author made up later on, and which still later also carry out assasinations for pretty much arbitrary reasons. Again, this was probably made up on the spot as well, as he felt he needed more powerful antagonists, without any regards for the implications.

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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
He isn't in a top level guild because he prefers soloing. He has said so multiple times.
We don't know the exact level of acceptance he has in the frontlines, but judging from the following facts, I'd say he's doing ok:
1. he is able to keep up in the frontline as a solo player
2. he is able to join boss clearing meetings
3. no one (in the frontlines) has shown hostility towards him (that we've seen; disagreements with Asuna doesn't really count)
Those three all don't fit at all, if he's supposed to be a solo player. He had a very bad reputation at the beginning. If he really had been a solo player and kept to himself all the time, no one would've got to know him, and his bad reputation would've remained. As a consequence, no one wopuld've wanted to have him around, especially not in critical situations where you need people you can trust 100%, like in boss clearings.
For his reputation to change, he can't have stayed a solo plyer, but must've played together with others frequently, for extended periods of time as well, so that they see that he isn't as bad as his reputation says, but actually a nice guy. He must've played together with others especially well even, for a long time, so that they trust him enough to rely on him in crital situations like the boss clearings.

No even remotely sane person would say: "Look, there's Super-Kirito. He's super strong, but has an awful reputation. As he always stays by himself as a solo player and never talks with anyone, no one knows anything about him. But hey, let's invite him to the boss clearings, just because, even if we need 100% dependable people for such critical operations. So what if he turns out to be a bad person and attacks our backs while we're fighting the boss?"

Kirito supposedly being a solo player probably seemed a good idea to the author at the beginning ("Look at Super-Kirito, handling all by himself!"), but becomes more and more impractical as the story proceeds, so he teams up several times regardless, and it also becomes more and more unlikely, if not even impossible, as more and more story elements are made up on the spot without previous planning, like strong PK guilds (LC) which also do assasinations for abitrary reasons.
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Old 2012-08-16, 16:09   Link #279
Znail
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Originally Posted by MrPopo View Post
I haven't read the LN, nor do I feel it's necessary to use it as a means to analyze the anime.


The lack of danger to Kirito is what I've been arguing this whole time. I actually do think that helping Klein would have been the more dangerous option, I was simply arguing that I don't think the danger was that much more significant.
It wasn't more dangerous for him to help Kleins friends in addition to Klein, but it would have been a greater danger of one of them dying while under his responsibility.
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Old 2012-08-16, 16:21   Link #280
MrPopo
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Or maybe - though that kind of reasoning is a bit too convenient - the first attempt on the boss room, without him, would have resulted in total wipe out, plunging everyone into despair. And they'd never have gotten the guts to try again. Which sounds pretty dangerous, in its own way.
That's the benefit of having audience vision I guess. Ironically, if the LN passage you posted was true, then Kirito going off on his own may have been among the most dangerous thing he's done as his information wasn't as useful as he thought it was.

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Originally Posted by Znail View Post
It wasn't more dangerous for him to help Kleins friends in addition to Klein, but it would have been a greater danger of one of them dying while under his responsibility.
That is a good point, that probably did factor in to his decision.
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