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Old 2012-08-19, 06:27   Link #21
Pocari_Sweat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I just see Okada as polarizing, at this point. Maybe a year ago she was overrated, but I've seen opinion on Okada really change a lot over the past year or so. I think Okada gets as much hate as she does praise now. And that's probably as it should be - She's done some very nice work, but she's done some stinkers too.
Yep. Overrated implies that the person is whilst good at what he/she does, but the proportion of praise that person gets to what he/she did, is well above in proportion.

Mari Okada has been hit or miss in the past 2 years. She either does solid work or she does shocking work. That's not overrated, that's just inconsistent/polarizing.
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Old 2012-08-19, 06:30   Link #22
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Well are we talking about overrated and underrated based on Anime Suki's opinions or based on the industry's decisions

I framed my answer on who I think the industry should give more work too not who I think other fans underrate.

Also in this context I think it is perfect legitimate to bring up light novel writers, especially if the industry chooses to adapt more or less of their work specifically.
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Old 2012-08-19, 07:37   Link #23
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Also in this context I think it is perfect legitimate to bring up light novel writers, especially if the industry chooses to adapt more or less of their work specifically.
Than why stop at light novel authors? Lets also talk about video game writers and manga authors too! Who cares if an author writes in a manner that only a native would understand fully, or that the works may not reflect on the original source, lets talk about everything. I'm sure the mangaka of Yumekui Merry would be overjoyed if people were judging his abilities on the anime original last half of the anime. Likewise Arakawa with the second half of the first FMA and The Conqueror of Shamballa. I'm sure it's a good idea to judge the light novels of The Good Witch of the West based on the anime, they only tried to fit 8 light novels into 13 episodes.
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Old 2012-08-19, 08:08   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Than why stop at light novel authors? Lets also talk about video game writers and manga authors too! Who cares if an author writes in a manner that only a native would understand fully, or that the works may not reflect on the original source, lets talk about everything. I'm sure the mangaka of Yumekui Merry would be overjoyed if people were judging his abilities on the anime original last half of the anime. Likewise Arakawa with the second half of the first FMA and The Conqueror of Shamballa. I'm sure it's a good idea to judge the light novels of The Good Witch of the West based on the anime, they only tried to fit 8 light novels into 13 episodes.
Maybe you should read what I actually wrote.

I said in the context of whether the industry relies too much on a certain writer. Hence talking about novel writers is legitimate.

As for manga-ka in the context of what I said they are legitimate too but as the majority of manga-ka work on one series for such a long time, it's a bit harder to say the anime industry "relies" on their writing too much. Even if a novel writer works on only one series, each book of that series tends to be its own separate work as opposed to a tankabon of a manga series.


We are not talking about whether an anime adapts a work well, that's a different discussion and no one has actually said anything like that on this thread so your post makes no sense.
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Old 2012-08-19, 09:33   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I should watch Macross Frontier.
If you donít like cringe-worthy lines delivered in cringe-worthy ways and many of them happens during very unlikely situations, DONíT watch Macross Frontier, especially the movies.

And yes, whoever wrote the script for Macross Frontier (be it Kawamori or Yoshino or both) got my vote for one(s) of the most overrated series writers.

So, Kawamori is also responsible for Aquarion EVOL? Figures.
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Old 2012-08-19, 09:54   Link #26
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
If you don’t like cringe-worthy lines delivered in cringe-worthy ways and many of them happens during very unlikely situations, DON’T watch Macross Frontier, especially the movies.

And yes, whoever wrote the script for Macross Frontier (be it Kawamori or Yoshino or both) got my vote for one(s) of the most overrated series writers.

So, Kawamori is also responsible for Aquarion EVOL? Figures.
Spoiler for Kawamori (Director, Creator):


As for Macross Frontier, yeh it is one of the weaker Macrosses but at least it's still head and heels better than the abomination known as Macross 7. And like it or not, it is one of Yoshino's better involvements .
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Old 2012-08-19, 10:19   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
As for Macross Frontier, yeh it is one of the weaker Macrosses but at least it's still head and heels better than the abomination known as Macross 7. And like it or not, it is one of Yoshino's better involvements .
This is just my personal view, but at least Macross 7 still has Basara as a kickass-weirdo main character, Mylene as the obligatory cute girl (which is not annoying), Gamlin’s “Using song to fight the enemies is BS!” personality as a rival to Basara, and the silent no-nonsense Veffidas as a female drummer. Plus, the divorced(?) Max & Millia are hilarious at times. Those characters alone made the series for me (even more than Alto, Sheryl, & Ranka combined). Mostly because they spent much less time EMO-ing that makes it a fun silly show like Transformers G1. Oh yeah, don’t forget that Fire Bomber’s songs in M7 can truly rock your world!
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Old 2012-08-19, 14:33   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
If you don’t like cringe-worthy lines delivered in cringe-worthy ways and many of them happens during very unlikely situations, DON’T watch Macross Frontier, especially the movies.

And yes, whoever wrote the script for Macross Frontier (be it Kawamori or Yoshino or both) got my vote for one(s) of the most overrated series writers.

So, Kawamori is also responsible for Aquarion EVOL? Figures.
I find myself contining to puzzle over how somebody that gave us Vision of Escaflowne, Earth Maiden Arjuna, Super Dimension Force Macross and some of the best mecha designs of the 80's and 90's could also give us AKB0048, Aquarion and Basquash! For me Macross F fits in somwhere in the middle of his body of work. Seriously though what the fuck happened to this guy and when did he go from being a respected contributor to sci-fi anime to some vaguely creepy dude that seems more interested in portraying J-Idol concerts than space opera and fantasy nowadays?
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Old 2012-08-19, 15:17   Link #29
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To the OP: Your problem with underrated/overrated is that you're working under the false assumption that good writing should equate to a popular series.

Anyone who's been even semi-serious about watching anime for more than a day or two should hopefully realize that great writing has no correlation to great popularity (nor does it necessarily work in reverse).

I'm also going to possibly cause some angst by saying I don't even classify a screenwriter who's simply adapting someone else's work to the screen in the same league as a writer who actually wrote the source material, and trying to compare the two as you seem to be doing seems...like the apples and oranges cliche.

Now, all that said, I also think writers-of any stripe-rarely get much thought by anime viewers in general. You can take the writer you think is overrated for example. It's easy to say he's overrated in that the shows he's written for are hardly examples of great stories, but it's working under what I believe is the false assumption that anyone actually gives credit to that writer for those show's successes. Frankly, I seriously doubt even 10% of the screaming masses of Guilty Crown fans have given a second of thought towards the writer.

Urobachi Gen is one of the rare writers where outside of some OCD niche fans, people actually talk about the writer of the show or source material. Is he overrated? Considering he only entered the collective mass conscious with Madoka Magica, and then continued with Fate/Zero, two shows that have aired very recently, combined with having actually come up with the material, rather than simply adapting someone else's material, I hardly think there's anything overrated at how people talk about him at the moment. Let's not forget that his anime writing resume is actually quite small. Maybe when he's got a long list of titles and only a few successes, while still being hailed as a great writer (in the realm of anime stories at least)...well, let's return to talking about whether he's overrated or not then.

I feel like the entire topic is really just a way to let off some steam that the quality of writing usually has no impact on a show's popularity. Which is true.
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Old 2012-08-19, 21:52   Link #30
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The quality (or not) of the writing has a total impact on popularity, just like the chara designs, the direction, the marketing and the VAs.

If the fans who buy the BDs don't think about the writer when they're buying the show, that's their problem, but one of the contributors who made the show so successful was the series compositor.

I don't buy the "otaku don't care about X" phrase that gets thrown a lot around here. How do you know? Do you regularly lurk 2ch or Futaba? Do you live in Akiba? Maybe a lot of otaku that bought, say, Madoka Magica, are Aoki Ume, Yuki Kajiura or Gen Urobuchi fans and that played a big part in their decision to buy the show. If the image of the fans that contribute to the industry you are making in your head is that of rabid humanoid monkeys who only ever care for cute girls, you're simply plain wrong. A lot of shows have cute girls, some sell and some don't, so the difference doesn't have anything to do with that at all.
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Old 2012-08-20, 00:52   Link #31
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Maybe you should read what I actually wrote.
Actually you're completely right, that's what I get for skimming while trying to multitask.

Quote:
I said in the context of whether the industry relies too much on a certain writer. Hence talking about novel writers is legitimate.
I still think it's stupid to fully judge a light novel author by his adapted works.

Quote:
As for manga-ka in the context of what I said they are legitimate too but as the majority of manga-ka work on one series for such a long time, it's a bit harder to say the anime industry "relies" on their writing too much.
Manga adaptions have been the backbone of the anime industry for a long time now.
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Old 2012-08-20, 03:42   Link #32
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
To the OP: Your problem with underrated/overrated is that you're working under the false assumption that good writing should equate to a popular series.
If the popularity is the same meaning as recognition or established name like Gen Urobuchi, that's what I was intending my topic to be. After all most DVD with the name Gen Urobuchi attached and under the right conditions, it will most likely sell like hotcakes. This guy is most likely pretty much the one responsible for bringing the series composition into the anime topics. Before then all they discussed was all about anime and sometimes the director and the music. So, it's quite strange when you see a DVD that sells a lot of copies just because a certain name is attached.

Say if Sankarea was written by Hiroyuki Yoshino, it would have been entirely different anime and probably sell better than it is now. It sold poorly because the credit is made of team that are not that well-known in the business.

By now, he is pretty inactive but I thought Jun Maeda was overrated too. I heard he had dual responsibility with his KEY anime for writing and music. While it's impressive and all, I found most of his work forgettable and quite uneventful. I had a very hard time watching any Key works mostly because of distracting character design. All I can remember are the bug eyes and a few emotional scenes. The plot was far too slow to be immersed in and not to mention some of them were too cheesy to take it serious.

While Yoshitoshi Abe is good at writing good psychological characters, everything he wrote is mostly similar, down-to-earth and slice-of-life story. He doesn't seem to want to write a new stuff, nowadays, he only writes Ryoshika Ryoshika.
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Old 2012-08-20, 04:35   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
If you don’t like cringe-worthy lines delivered in cringe-worthy ways and many of them happens during very unlikely situations, DON’T watch Macross Frontier, especially the movies.

And yes, whoever wrote the script for Macross Frontier (be it Kawamori or Yoshino or both) got my vote for one(s) of the most overrated series writers.

So, Kawamori is also responsible for Aquarion EVOL? Figures.
Is it cheesy? I don't mind that really.

Lol one is Kawamori + Yoshino, then other is Kawamori + Okada. XD Still Frontier looks like it's worth a try. I can't really say the same for Aquarion. Okada's considered a - for me atm.

That being said, we should probably expand this topic to include staff in general, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
I feel like the entire topic is really just a way to let off some steam that the quality of writing usually has no impact on a show's popularity. Which is true.
It really feels like that, at least when I was replying. More like "things you consider too successful"
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Old 2012-08-20, 05:31   Link #34
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Most underrated for me has to be Noboru Takagi. He adapted Baccano and Durara to anime form which is damn fine considering the way those two series tell their story. He also adapted Sankarea into anime form which turned one of the most mind numbing-head slapping manga into something actually enjoyable. I'd give more props to Sankarea's director for it to be "good" but that show really shows how great of a writer Noboru Takagi is.

Some of his resume: Koi Kaze, [C], Natsume Yuujinchou, Texhnolyze, Jigoku Shoujo, and the upcoming Tonari no Kaibutsu Kun anime.

For overrated, Mari Okada really fits the bill. I do love a lot of her works but she really is a bit of a bipolar. Her work stems from some of the best (Hourou Musuko, Toradora, Anohana), to some of the worst (AKB0048, Black Rock Shooter).
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Old 2012-08-20, 07:17   Link #35
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Wait, Sankarea was adapted by the same guy who did the adaptation for Baccano and Durarara? All the better then, I have come into this show (Sankarea) with a lot of skepticism because its subject matter (romance with a zombie) was prone to squick and distasteful jokes, and what I got was a pretty sensible and endearing tale about a girl who wanted freedom and found only one way out, and a boy whose leanings in romance would have made him unacceptable in society.
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Old 2012-08-20, 11:26   Link #36
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Is it cheesy? I don't mind that really.

Lol one is Kawamori + Yoshino, then other is Kawamori + Okada. XD Still Frontier looks like it's worth a try. I can't really say the same for Aquarion. Okada's considered a - for me atm.
On second thought, I think Iíll suggest you to watch two Macross Frontier movies (Itsuwari no Utahime then Sayonara no Tsubasa) instead of spending more of your time watching 25 episodes of anime series (thatís more or less 12 hours, right?). The two movies themselves are kinda like a more compact (albeit different) version of the series which is okay for newcomers. They are good representation of what Macross Frontier is all about. All in all, the series & the movies have different plots but similar cringe-worthy execution. I just want to warn you before going into the abyss.

For comparison, Macross 7 with all its ridiculous elements works in entertaining me since the series doesnít take itself too seriously right from the start so they can move along with all the silly fun. Macross Frontier is the exact opposite. Itís dead serious + main characters EMO-ing while many of the dialogues and melodramatic scenes are gag-inducing and too over-the-top imo.
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Old 2012-08-20, 19:02   Link #37
TJR
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I find myself contining to puzzle over how somebody that gave us Vision of Escaflowne, Earth Maiden Arjuna, Super Dimension Force Macross and some of the best mecha designs of the 80's and 90's could also give us AKB0048, Aquarion and Basquash! For me Macross F fits in somwhere in the middle of his body of work. Seriously though what the fuck happened to this guy and when did he go from being a respected contributor to sci-fi anime to some vaguely creepy dude that seems more interested in portraying J-Idol concerts than space opera and fantasy nowadays?
Requirements for financing. Sponsors aren't confident enough in mecha, so there's always pressure to extend appeal to moe fans and/or fujoshi. Idol concerts sell CDs, which means that they can draw more investment from record labels.

That said, you could easily accuse Kawamori of being all too eager to embrace current trends. His strategy is to combine multiple areas of appeal into one package, which maximizes external investment and creates multiple avenues to success (i.e. popularity with mecha otaku, moe otaku, fujoshi, and fans of idol acts. Indeed, even if the show fails with one potential audience, there's a shot at being successful with another).

Many directors resist this approach (IIRC, Ichiro Itano had some scathing things to say about Macross Frontier. On Blassreiter, he even dismissed Urobuchi's idea of adding moe character designs to attract more fans) and have successfully pitched shows without pandering to every possible niche. However, Kawamori is running a business, so.........
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Old 2012-08-21, 01:34   Link #38
Akuma Kinomoto
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Back on topic, I think the mangaka circle of CLAMP gets a lot of love-hate reaction from people and it's not just limited to their body of work distinguishing who follows their projects and who doesn't. Rather, even the readership that follows their work on a regular basis will praise a series one moment then criticize a title on the next. I guess they're like Mari Okada except Okada has only been at this since 2008 while CLAMP goes back to the 90s; what's their excuse?
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