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Old 2012-08-20, 11:55   Link #661
shmaster
Hanged Man & Chariot
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Only consider Narukana the sword, it is technically three.
Nozomu is only a NHE in the Narukana ending, where Narukana becoems a whole. You can tell in Statsuki's ending, where Narukana is still divided, Nozomu never claims he has become a NHE. So the same should apply into the fan disc cannon where Narukana is still not whole.

On Seii, it is the other way around. Seii is the one who asked for help. Seii and Narukana are both offspring of Setsuna, thus Seii cannot truely defeats Narukana.
But on the question of which side Seii is one... I am some what skeptical. Ultimatly speaking, Setsuna's entire lineage belongs to the Sheild Universe, which is completly different from the Eigou's offspring from the Sword Universe. It is hard for me to see Setsuna and Seii joining any side that is lead by Eigou's offspring.

I think the easiest way to resolve the conflict right now is to have Myugi wake up and then beat the crap out of that evil whore Temuorin.

Last edited by shmaster; 2012-08-20 at 13:22.
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Old 2012-08-20, 12:29   Link #662
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Law Eternals cont'd

Observer of Samsara Bobo (gods, that's a stupid name I swear..)

Eien Shinken - Tier 2 (Mugen)

Wields time manipulation abilities greater than those of Tokimi.

Not only can he see the past but he can also retroactively affect it as well as time travel, but he rarely does this due to the massive impact in has on the world.

Through compression of time, he can create moments that last for close to eternity.

Also, if he were to be completely annihilated, and that very instant, his existence would return to the point of his oldest memory and he would carry on living.

At locations where his claws rend, space and time become dissociated from each other.

He can use the temporal difference in his surroundings to defend against attacks.


Mikage

Tier 3 Eien Shinken "Kida" (Strange Snake)

Kin of Yamata no Orochi who appeared in Japan long ago.

Its 8 heads govern Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Sloth, Desire, Rage and Innocence

Before taking any action, under the rule of the head that is in control at the moment, the remaining 7 heads have to decide by majority on the decision.

The 8 heads are capable of conversing amongst themselves and each head has its own views.

Usually however, Pride will serve as the spokesperson.

Reason being that for the other heads, there are many instances where conversation will not occur.

Innocence is just an assumed form however, it says nothing, keeping the truth to itself.

Satori no Shigei

Tier 2 Eien Shinken Satori (Enlightenment)

Shigei is able to embody Satori. When that happens, a halo manifests around him.

Although he reached the brink of satori when still alive, the colossal revelation that entered his brain somewhat corroded his personality.

In his eyes, everything is reflected as naught but an aggregation of subatomic particles.

That's why Iyaga's belief of "accepting all living things" causes him to tilt his head.

Ego and life, the phenomena that draws forth the waves of Mana are in Shigei's view, the "Heart" that causes one to misinterpret the various reactions in the Mana waves.

Shigei's eyes severs the connection between organic and inorganic of whatever he gazes upon, rendering them into subatomic particles.
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Old 2012-08-20, 13:07   Link #663
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
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Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Chaos Eternals:

Logas of Destiny

Eien Shinkei Tier 1 Unmei (Destiny)

Leader of the Chaos Eternals.

Gained recognition amongst the Law Eternals after he single handedly battled against them.

Battles with weapon in his right hand but truth is, he's left handed.

In the Law and Chaos factions, there appears to be nothing that surpasses Unmei.

He destroyed Bobo's lower half, delivered a life-threatening blow to Tokuo who was merged with spacetime and stopped Takios' blade with a single hand.

Tokuo was driven to insane rage by this while Logas gained Takios' respect as an enemy.

Having beaten just about every Law Eternal around, Logas' name is universally cursed by them.

Although he's always laughing, it is because he lacks anger and sadness in his emotions.

Many find it eerie that he utterly lacks a sad or angry face.

He quietly awaits his destiny that he already knew since long before.



Guidance of Destruction Paurikosuka

Tier 3 Eien Shinken Hakai (Destruction)

Every bone in her body is composed of the Tier 3 Sword Hakai.

Appears extremely gentle and calm but that is for the purpose of allowing Destruction to completely take over her consciousness.

When that happens in battle, Hakai's personality will overwrite Paurikosa's and she becomes fast-talking as well as drunk on battle.

She says she rejects fighting but in truth, deep down in her blood, she longs for battle.

She's capable of destroying whatever her body comes in contact with but that makes her weak at long ranged fights.

She likes Vendetta and Tokimi but finds Logas and Rushima hard to deal with.



Truly indeed I think a Myugi x Logas end may be the nicest way to wrap up the whole war between Law and Chaos....

After all their fates are clearly intertwined. The names of their Eien Shinken are blatantly obvious on this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
I think the easiest way to resolve the conflict right now is to have Myugi wake up and then beat the crap out of that evil whore Temuorin.
Epic right....the primary evil bastard is another innocent looking loli.....

Sucks for Myugi really...she doesn't even rule her own Law faction per se....its entire goal is simply to get rid of her and take Shukumei for themselves.
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2012-08-20 at 13:20.
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Old 2012-08-20, 13:46   Link #664
shmaster
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Goddes, you left a few thing got left out.
Like how Bobo has a lack of fighting sense, thus he barely won any fights if he is to fight one on one.

On Miakge, the Innoncence head is assumed to the incarnation of the sword, by it keeps the truth to itself.
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Old 2012-08-20, 16:16   Link #665
Eternal Regnum771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Just consider Narukana the sword, it is technically three.
Nozomu is only a NHE in the Narukana ending, where Narukana becoems a whole. You can tell in Statsuki's ending, where Narukana is still divided, Nozomu never claims he has become a NHE. So the same should apply into the fan disc cannon where Narukana is still not whole.
That's more reinforcement of my belief of Satsuki being the canon route.

Oh, I was under the impression it was four parts. I suppose I shouldn't count Nozomu since there's only the will (Narukana), the power (Rehme), and the vessel (Satsuki). Nozomu should be considered the wielder instead.

As I recall, Iyaga was more powerful in Satsuki's route than she was in Naruakana's route, yet... She was still beaten by a divided Narukana and an incomplete NHE Nozomu. The gap between rank 1 and 2 sure is astronomical considering Iyaga had seemingly surpassed a rank 2 by eating the naru and Et Ca Repha, but she still couldn't match those two in the state they were in then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
On Seii, it is the other way around. Seii is the one who asked for help. Seii and Narukana are both offspring of Setsuna, thus Seii cannot truely defeats Narukana.
But on the question of which side Seii is one... I am some what skeptical. Ultimatly speaking, Setsuna's entire lineage belongs to the Sheild Universe, which is completly different from the Eigou's offspring from the Sword Universe. It is hard for me to see Setsuna and Seii joining any side that is lead by Eigou's offspring.

I think the easiest way to resolve the conflict right now is to have Myugi wake up and then beat the crap out of that evil whore Temuorin.
Ah, I got that mixed around. But wait, I thought Narukana was created by Chouritsu (I should call it this instead of Yuukyuu)? Narukana's true purpose is to protect the Sheath, so this would make sense.

Seii was created by Setsuna, but is aligned with Chouritsu? Setsuna must be sad to have an unloving child. Setsuna is fighting against Eigou, so that's only natural. The same should be true for Seii too given who created him/her, but Seii shouldn't get along with Chouritsu either (same for Setsuna), A child isn't always like their parents, so maybe Seii has belief that are present in Chouritsu's side thus the reason why Seii is working with Chouritsu.

I doubt Temuorin is real mastermind that's driving the mentality and objective of Law Eternals. She doesn't seem like true final boss material either. Perhaps the second to last, but not true final boss. There has to be someone higher than her who's pulling all the strings from behind the scenes. Temuorin is powerful, but she's probably only high tier at most, so there should be a number of people out there who can beat her. Then again, she's a chessmaster, so scheming and manipulating are her forte and beating her at this will most likely be the only way to get to her.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Wields time manipulation abilities greater than those of Tokimi.
I find this hard to believe. Tokimi has 3 eien shinkens (I read that she might have 4 even?) that are all time-related, and each one strengthens her ability/power over time. One of those eien shinkens is a rank 2 too.

Bobo does have the edge in the abilities that's related to infinity, but Tokimi constantly perceives time, so she sees the past, present, and future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Having beaten just about every Law Eternal around, Logas' name is universally cursed by them.

Although he's always laughing, it is because he lacks anger and sadness in his emotions.

Many find it eerie that he utterly lacks a sad or angry face.

He quietly awaits his destiny that he already knew since long before.
Law Eternals are just jealous of his awesomeness. And truly, you cannot fight against destiny (hoho).

Rogus is a total troll and a happy go-lucky kind of guy. He can take it easy since he is so damn powerful and since he knows everyone's destiny and everything that is going to happen, he has no reason to be sad or angry. It says he's quietly waiting around and I'm sure there is some truth in that, but he obviously has been doing things to set that destiny of his in motion, to ensure that it will happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Truly indeed I think a Myugi x Logas end may be the nicest way to wrap up the whole war between Law and Chaos....

After all their fates are clearly intertwined. The names of their Eien Shinken are blatantly obvious on this point.
Yep, yep. It can't be anything else. Not only would that be the best way to wrap it all up, but it would make for a beautiful relationship and pairing. ^^

That's for sure. I knew and figured it the second I read about their eien shinkens and their respective title, 宿命に全てを奪われた少女 and 全ての運命を知る少年.
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Old 2012-08-20, 16:50   Link #666
shmaster
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Narukana is also an offspring of Setsuna too, and a mutated sword that carries Null from Setsuna's Sheild Universe despite she was created in the Sword Universe.
Seii is trying to prevent the Null from spreading across the Sword Unvierse thus tried to seal Narukana away.

At the current state, all three Cosmic Balancers have no intenetion to fight one another. As the multiverse is going to collapse if they do. Yes, they want to fight, but not at the expense of their multiverse.
At the very least, they have to wait until Chouritsu recovers its full power before Eigou and Setsuna can fight again.
I feel Seii is more of working on setting the proper stage up rather than picking up the fight, and is merely using the Law Eternals to keep Narukana in check.

And it is hard to tell who is the true mastermind behind the Law faction. But Temuorin is the person who started it by using Myugi as an idol. Though, not too sure who'll be abe to give her orders. Definitly not any of the tier 1, and none of the current tier two can out right beats her.
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Old 2012-08-20, 20:13   Link #667
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Law Eternals are just jealous of his awesomeness. And truly, you cannot fight against destiny (hoho).

Rogus is a total troll and a happy go-lucky kind of guy. He can take it easy since he is so damn powerful and since he knows everyone's destiny and everything that is going to happen, he has no reason to be sad or angry. It says he's quietly waiting around and I'm sure there is some truth in that, but he obviously has been doing things to set that destiny of his in motion, to ensure that it will happen.
Actually....from the way it's written, it seems to be more like he cannot get sad or angry to any degree.

Then you compare this to Myugi who because of Shukumei also made herself like that.

I think it's somehow linked. Perhaps a major link even.

Quote:
I doubt Temuorin is real mastermind that's driving the mentality and objective of Law Eternals. She doesn't seem like true final boss material either. Perhaps the second to last, but not true final boss. There has to be someone higher than her who's pulling all the strings from behind the scenes. Temuorin is powerful, but she's probably only high tier at most, so there should be a number of people out there who can beat her. Then again, she's a chessmaster, so scheming and manipulating are her forte and beating her at this will most likely be the only way to get to her.
But everything seems to be started by her. It's like she's the most proactive in wanthing to take Myugi's power...


BTW...Shield verse, is it also part of the Time Tree?
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Old 2012-08-20, 21:13   Link #668
shmaster
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No, all the time tree belongs to the Sword Universe that originated from Eigou.
Shield Universe is a completely different verse originated from Setsuna.
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Old 2012-08-20, 21:19   Link #669
Cosmic Eagle
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So basically the Cosmic Balancers form the entire multiversal framework and the smaller subdivisions of multiverses, Sword and Shield, branch off from there?
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Old 2012-08-20, 21:41   Link #670
Eternal Regnum771
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@shmaster
I see. I wonder what Eigou and Setsuna's intention was when they got together to create Narukana. Since Narukana turned out to be a mutated sword, surely their initial objective failed.

Ho, I'm sure Rogus also is setting up the stage for the grand play. Seii was the one who proposed the idea to seal Narukana, but Rogus was the one who agreed to help and made that happen. He was the one who brought Jiruoru from outside Sword Universe and broken apart his mana to create the Time Tree. He also knows about Narukana's destiny.

When you say none of the current tier 2 can outright beat her, do you mean in power or to defeat her and whatever she's planning? If it's the former, then Tokuo should be stronger than her. Tokimi has played countless "games" with her and has won an undefined number of them. I wouldn't put it pass Youto to beat her either. There's also Shun, who
Spoiler for is:
and has the potential to surpass her in power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Actually....from the way it's written, it seems to be more like he cannot get sad or angry to any degree.

Then you compare this to Myugi who because of Shukumei also made herself like that.

I think it's somehow linked. Perhaps a major link even.
When you put it that way, maybe Rogus's Unmei has similar power to Myuugi's Shukumei. If so, Rogus just has greater control over his feelings and thoughts, but still of course has to avoid being sad or angry. Also one thing, shouldn't Shukumei = Destiny and Unmei = Fate instead?


If I have it right... For some unknown reason, Aeon divided into 3 and the three pieces that basically forms Aeon are Eigou, Chouritsu, and Setsuna. The three Cosmic Balancers went to form their own universes, with Eigou having created the most universes. From there, all three of them created eien shinkens of rank 1 to 3, and those rank 1 to 3 went to create their own universes and the rank 4 to 9 eien shinkens. I believe even the rank 4 to 9 eien shinkens that scattered and drift in the void can eventually come to create their own universes or at least worlds.

There are three multiverses: Sword Universe, Sheath Universe, and Shield Universe.

Last edited by Eternal Regnum771; 2012-08-20 at 21:57.
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Old 2012-08-20, 21:54   Link #671
shmaster
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What I mean is none of the tier 2 right now can really out scheme her and have the way to really find he and kill her. Especially she has hidden true self in somewhere unknown to all. All the Temuorin we see so far are just projections. While she still has a goon of followers and meat shields to serve as her chess pieces.
She really knows how to play the "pulling strings from somewhere safe" style really really well.
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Old 2012-08-20, 21:57   Link #672
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
When you put it that way, maybe Rogus's Unmei has similar power to Myuugi's Shukumei. If so, Rogus just has greater control over his feelings and thoughts, but still of course has to avoid being sad or angry. Also one thing, shouldn't Shukumei = Destiny and Unmei = Fate instead?
Meaning is for practical purposes interchangeable...

I mean, what is the difference between fate and destiny to you? Both of them still carry some notion of a preplanned route
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Old 2012-08-21, 02:48   Link #673
Eternal Regnum771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
What I mean is none of the tier 2 right now can really out scheme her and have the way to really find he and kill her. Especially she has hidden true self in somewhere unknown to all. All the Temuorin we see so far are just projections. While she still has a goon of followers and meat shields to serve as her chess pieces.
She really knows how to play the "pulling strings from somewhere safe" style really really well.
That projection some project, it's essentially an avatar she uses to interact and channel her power through then. Temuorin is better than I thought. I bet she has multiple eien shinkens as insurance in case she ever gets "killed", so she'll never die.

I sure would love to read and know Temuorin's profile. *wink* *wink*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Meaning is for practical purposes interchangeable...

I mean, what is the difference between fate and destiny to you? Both of them still carry some notion of a preplanned route
I'm just saying that the word unmei usually is used to mean fate. Shukumei isn't used as much in comparison, but when it is, it often is used to mean destiny. This is from my experience, anyways.

They can be interchangeable since the general concept is the same, but there's a difference and I always see both distinctive from each other. How I see it and differentiate them, Fate is predetermined inevitability (often by some power/force, where the course of events is set and cannot be altered or avoided. Destiny, on the other hand, is about the predetermined destination that isn't inevitable as it can be altered or influenced.

With that, Rogus is certainly more suited as Fate since he's waiting for the inevitable. He has no choice, so no matter what action or choice he makes, the course of events will lead to a path that's inevitably predetermined. For Myuugi, her most likely destiny is to decide if the war is going to end or not and which side will prevail. She has more than one possible predetermined paths laid out before her and which which destination will be reached can be influenced by her decision to participate or not and by her actions/choice. Other people's actions/choice and participation can also shape destiny
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Old 2012-08-21, 06:51   Link #674
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
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Quote:
しゅく‐めい【宿命】
生まれる前の世から定まっている人間の運命
From dictionary.

In Japanese, biggest difference between shukumei and unmei is that shukumei has stronger notions of being linked to the past. As in one's shukumei is linked to occurances in the past etc. Because of stuff in the past, things beyond your control are now your fate. In fact, it may even be partly linked to the Buddhist notion of cause and effect affecting your fate in your present state.



By your definition, that meaning quoted would translate shukumei as fate.

Unmei OTOH....Has conotations of "fortune" "luck" or something beyond one's control...pretty much the same as shukumei. However, unmei also means the progression of future outcomes. In that sense, it does mean destiny in your terms.

This is a matter of purely English however.




In the original context it's more to show how the two Eien Shinken are twins of each other. The same way their wielders are twinned.




Well the important thing in this case is that it hinges on what Myugi will do if and when she finally wakes up.

As long as you know that, it's fine.
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Old 2012-08-21, 16:35   Link #675
Eternal Regnum771
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Hmm, many J to E dictionaries I see has 運命 as fate and 宿命 as fate;destiny, so when two of those words are used, I usually see 宿命 as destiny. And in this case, Rogus does seem more fit to be with fate than destiny. Anyways though, I see your point.

Anyhow, in Seirei Tenshou, the prequel game to Seinarukana, there's a girl who holds a rank 4 sword and is considered an Eternal or is existence that's comparable to an Eternal, even in power? She s must have amassed a vast of mana somehow to match a rank 3. If she did, then her sword should grow to a rank 3, but, yet...
Spoiler for Surudo?:
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Old 2012-08-26, 03:03   Link #676
Cosmic Eagle
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The Pontiff Temuorin:

Law Eternal that delights is scheming. Involved in many dark plots in Eien no Aselia.

Interest reloves around amassing Shinken of 3rd - 5th Rank.

Gathered N'tushtra, Medalio, and Mitosemal along with herself to turn Phantasmagoria into Mana.

Bears great interest in Myugi, who destroyed a universe. Formed the Law Eternal faction.

She holds massive amounts of power but she hates fighting herself and has a habit of avoiding troublesome battles.

She's satisified even if she is defeated in battle but ultimately her plans turn out well overall.

She wages an ongoing long war against Tokimi.

She hides her own Eien Shinken as is quite a tenacious foe due to her splitting herself to act.

She's older than Tokimi by two cycles.



Why do I get the feeling that Tokimi may actually know her real identity...?
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Old 2012-08-26, 17:08   Link #677
shmaster
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....Goddess, if it me or does that sounds like something out of the google translator?
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Old 2012-08-26, 19:15   Link #678
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
....Goddess, if it me or does that sounds like something out of the google translator?
Nope....it's something directly taken from an extremely brief description written in that kind of point form

And also my own laziness to make it sound more fluent.




I don't actually have whatever it is she appears in...
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Old 2012-08-26, 20:54   Link #679
Eternal Regnum771
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Temuorin may be evil, but she intrigues me. That bit cycles... If I recall correctly, the fan translation of EnA had it down as era. I think it was that there are no standard of measurement related to age for Eternals given how Eternals experiences time and that a cycle (or era) is denoted by extremely significant events that happened, ones recognized or remembered by Eternals.


There have been updates at the Seinarukana SE site. Showing of one CG for Eternal Sky game, profiles and new designs for Youto, Aselia, Rogus.

Also, a new (an Eternal?) character. *wink*

Exclusive telephone and calling cards bonus depending on the store you order from.

I personally want this new CG of Narukana and Et Ca Repha.

Last edited by Eternal Regnum771; 2012-08-26 at 21:07.
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Old 2012-08-26, 21:15   Link #680
Cosmic Eagle
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Tier 1?

And when's that supposed to be released?
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