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Old 2012-08-21, 10:23   Link #1961
Krono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
That, and your comment about chaining combos.. Even he wasn't able to create his own 11-hit sword skill.. Remember the comment about how difficult it is to create your own? They don't call her the "Absolute Sword" for nothing.
The thing is, while creating an 11-hit sword skill is impressive, part of that is going to be a function of the amount of time one has. Kirito is going to school, dating Asuna, and picking up the odd part time job in addition to playing ALO. Asuna is going to school with a lot of pressure to excel, and dating Kirito in addition to playing ALO. Yuuki on the other hand is stuck lying in a hospital bed, with essentially no demands on her time. So she has a lot more time to create an 11-hit skill than Kirito or Asuna do.
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Old 2012-08-21, 11:18   Link #1962
HurricaneHige
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
The thing is, while creating an 11-hit sword skill is impressive, part of that is going to be a function of the amount of time one has. Kirito is going to school, dating Asuna, and picking up the odd part time job in addition to playing ALO. Asuna is going to school with a lot of pressure to excel, and dating Kirito in addition to playing ALO. Yuuki on the other hand is stuck lying in a hospital bed, with essentially no demands on her time. So she has a lot more time to create an 11-hit skill than Kirito or Asuna do.
You seem to have forgotten that "Sleeping Knights" transferred from another game, and she basically created the OSS not long after.

Both Kirito and Asuna had "more time" to create OSS than Yuuki, but of course in real "game time" sense it may not be as much.

As for who's stronger, Kirito definitely has more experience than Yuuki, as evident with Spell Blast that impressed even Yuuki. But in a duel, not to the death, Yuuki's reaction speed is faster than Kirito, and as a result Kirito lost.

If Kirito uses Dual Blade he'll likely win due to his understanding of the Seed system better, but then again he'll never use that unless its necessary.
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Old 2012-08-21, 11:18   Link #1963
Znail
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I don't get why he didn't dual wield anyway. It's not like it's an unfair skill in ALO as it's something he had to (re)create and anyone could do so if they had the personal skill at dual wielding. The only unfairness is that because he got the original Dual Blades skill so did that help teach him how to do it. But that doesn't change that it's not all his skill that keeps it alive.

But I got the impression that he knew Asuna was troubled and he thought this was a chance for her to get out of her funk.
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Old 2012-08-21, 12:07   Link #1964
hayate-sama
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Originally Posted by Znail View Post
I don't get why he didn't dual wield anyway. It's not like it's an unfair skill in ALO as it's something he had to (re)create and anyone could do so if they had the personal skill at dual wielding. The only unfairness is that because he got the original Dual Blades skill so did that help teach him how to do it. But that doesn't change that it's not all his skill that keeps it alive.

But I got the impression that he knew Asuna was troubled and he thought this was a chance for her to get out of her funk.
It is unfair because he is the only person know how to dual wield. Dual wielding is much harder than you think because human brain isn't mean for doing two actions at the same time. That why the system assists came in, all the skill has be predetermined and lead by the system so the brain don't have to do anything .

You can compare it to mountain climbing where kirito knew the road to the submit while the other have to create the road themselves in order to reach the top.
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Old 2012-08-21, 12:21   Link #1965
willx
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Originally Posted by hayate-sama View Post
It is unfair because he is the only person know how to dual wield. Dual wielding is much harder than you think because human brain isn't mean for doing two actions at the same time. That why the system assists came in, all the skill has be predetermined and lead by the system so the brain don't have to do anything .

You can compare it to mountain climbing where kirito knew the road to the submit while the other have to create the road themselves in order to reach the top.
Hm, this may be how the translations are written.. but it seems like Kirito still has a "Dual Blades" <skill> that other people don't have in game.

I re-read Mother's Rosario due to this thread (and teared up again!) and they seem to refer to it as a skill / <Dual Blades> instead of just dual wielding.. so I'm a tad confused. If Kirito really does have that skill, then it's definitely a "cheat"
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Old 2012-08-21, 12:28   Link #1966
Znail
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Hm, this may be how the translations are written.. but it seems like Kirito still has a "Dual Blades" <skill> that other people don't have in game.

I re-read Mother's Rosario due to this thread (and teared up again!) and they seem to refer to it as a skill / <Dual Blades> instead of just dual wielding.. so I'm a tad confused. If Kirito really does have that skill, then it's definitely a "cheat"
He doesn't have that skill. But they gave everyone the option to create their own Sword Skills and he could thus use his ability to dual wield to create Sword Skills using two swords. So the only unfairness is that Kirito himself has the knowledge of how to wield two swords and can thus create Swords Skills others can not.

But this is really no different then how someone who knows how to use a spear can create spear related Sword Skills, while someone who doesn't know that will be unable to do that. It's still Kirito's personal skills at fighting that gives him this advantage and not some hax of the game.
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Old 2012-08-21, 13:28   Link #1967
hayate-sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Znail View Post
He doesn't have that skill. But they gave everyone the option to create their own Sword Skills and he could thus use his ability to dual wield to create Sword Skills using two swords. So the only unfairness is that Kirito himself has the knowledge of how to wield two swords and can thus create Swords Skills others can not.

But this is really no different then how someone who knows how to use a spear can create spear related Sword Skills, while someone who doesn't know that will be unable to do that. It's still Kirito's personal skills at fighting that gives him this advantage and not some hax of the game.
1st. judging from the translation, the ten unique skills has been removed and the admin should properly set that any recreation of the skill won't be recognized, if not then Kirito can just re-register the skill and use it in mother rosario.


2nd. it is different from the spear since
a. the spear sword skills is still available so the skill creation can based of that.
b. other than kirito and possibly the game admin, nobody in the game know how the skill work.
c. Kirito didn't have the skill to actually use it from the start, it is the system that let him and only him use that skill which is really unfair to other. It is not like the requirement for the skill is "you have to react at the certain speed" but "the highest reaction speed" which can be considered monopoly in the game and yeah try to imagine a game where only a player can put out double the damage just because he is the admin favorite player from the previous game. That skill is so hax that he can single handed deplete 60%HP of the 74th floor boss.
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Old 2012-08-21, 13:32   Link #1968
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Znail View Post
He doesn't have that skill. But they gave everyone the option to create their own Sword Skills and he could thus use his ability to dual wield to create Sword Skills using two swords. So the only unfairness is that Kirito himself has the knowledge of how to wield two swords and can thus create Swords Skills others can not.

But this is really no different then how someone who knows how to use a spear can create spear related Sword Skills, while someone who doesn't know that will be unable to do that. It's still Kirito's personal skills at fighting that gives him this advantage and not some hax of the game.
Keep in mind not everything has been balanced. Asuna for example says her character has more HP than anyone from ALO because it got transfered from SAO.

And I quote from the translation:

Quote:
Having defeated Kirito, who made lots of legends—even though he didn't use his Dual Blades skill—«Absolute Sword» Yuuki was crowned the 4th champion of the tournament, and her name spread through the whole game of ALO, becoming a famed person throughout all users of «The Seed» Nexus.
So I'll leave it to whoever read the original Japanese, whether they refer to it as a specific skill, or otherwise not.
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Old 2012-08-21, 14:15   Link #1969
xkamiyo
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Keep in mind not everything has been balanced. Asuna for example says her character has more HP than anyone from ALO because it got transfered from SAO.
If I remember correctly, Yui stated that the HP stat was slightly different in SAO, which is why Kirito started at 400hp rather than having it carried over into ALO.


And I noticed no one brings up the point of his off-hand weapon being Excalibur at this point. I thought that he chose not to use the sword for selfish reasons (like, trying to win a duel, for example)? Though, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it went along the lines of that.
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Old 2012-08-21, 14:16   Link #1970
XxSleepyxX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Hm, this may be how the translations are written.. but it seems like Kirito still has a "Dual Blades" <skill> that other people don't have in game.

I re-read Mother's Rosario due to this thread (and teared up again!) and they seem to refer to it as a skill / <Dual Blades> instead of just dual wielding.. so I'm a tad confused. If Kirito really does have that skill, then it's definitely a "cheat"
I'm pretty sure he doesn't have the skill. When he checked his skills dual blades wasn't on the list of skill one-handed was. People had the ability to migrate their accounts from SAO to ALF. Kirito to chose not start a new one after he rescued Asuna. The only thing I can think of thats close to his own Dual Blades skill is the skill he created for himself. I'm pretty sure it let him cancel another person's attack? Its possible to dual wield, but its not registered as a skill instead its registered as a person with two one handed swords.
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Old 2012-08-21, 17:18   Link #1971
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I'm not sure guys.... but would it be that Kirito's Black sword that actually activated the Dual Blade Skill in the first place? It's like a special skill that requires that particular sword and Kirito was the lucky one to find it....
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Old 2012-08-21, 17:18   Link #1972
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
I'm not sure guys.... but would it be that Kirito's Black sword that actually activated the Dula Blade Skill in the first place? It's like a special skill by that sword....
the sword has nothing to do with the skill.
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Old 2012-08-21, 17:36   Link #1973
Znail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayate-sama View Post
1st. judging from the translation, the ten unique skills has been removed and the admin should properly set that any recreation of the skill won't be recognized, if not then Kirito can just re-register the skill and use it in mother rosario.


2nd. it is different from the spear since
a. the spear sword skills is still available so the skill creation can based of that.
b. other than kirito and possibly the game admin, nobody in the game know how the skill work.
c. Kirito didn't have the skill to actually use it from the start, it is the system that let him and only him use that skill which is really unfair to other. It is not like the requirement for the skill is "you have to react at the certain speed" but "the highest reaction speed" which can be considered monopoly in the game and yeah try to imagine a game where only a player can put out double the damage just because he is the admin favorite player from the previous game. That skill is so hax that he can single handed deplete 60%HP of the 74th floor boss.
Ah, but that was how it was in SOA. But the reason he can use dual wield in ALO is because Kirito the player learned how to wield two swords thanx to using it so much in SOA. He actually knows how to do it without any assistance. It's the same with Asuna, if you gave her a rapier in real life then she would have a fair idea how to put the pointy end where she wants to.

So while the reason why he aquired the knowledge may be a bit unfair, so is it still his own knowledge and skills.
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Old 2012-08-21, 17:39   Link #1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the sword has nothing to do with the skill.
So Kirito was just lucky.... hehehe.
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Old 2012-08-21, 17:40   Link #1975
Awrya
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About [Dual Blades] in ALO, when SAO and ALO servers merged, they removed "10 or so odd skills", which were the unique skills.
So the skill [Dual Blades] doesn't exist in ALO, but since Kirito spent a long time mastering [Dual Blades] in SAO, he can replicate 99% of its movement without system assist (and the magical attributes).
Spoiler for Quote from Caliber:


It is possible to wield two weapons at once, but in early ALO it was given up, considering the difficulties in mastering a twin style,
Spoiler for From Vol. 3:

while in the current ALO there are no sword skills that involve two weapons, Kirito switched between right and left-handed skills in Caliber.
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Old 2012-08-21, 17:41   Link #1976
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
So Kirito was just lucky.... hehehe.
the Duel Blade Skill was a special Skill that is award to the player with the Fastest Reaction Time.
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Old 2012-08-21, 17:46   Link #1977
Znail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
About [Dual Blades] in ALO, when SAO and ALO servers merged, they removed "10 or so odd skills", which were the unique skills.
So the skill [Dual Blades] doesn't exist in ALO, but since Kirito spent a long time mastering [Dual Blades] in SAO, he can replicate 99% of its movement without system assist (and the magical attributes).


It is possible to wield two weapons at once, but in early ALO it was given up, considering the difficulties in mastering a twin style,

while in the current ALO there are no sword skills that involve two weapons, Kirito switched between right and left-handed skills in Caliber.
But in Mother's Rosario they introduced the option for players to create their own Sword Skills and thus Kirito could recreate his old Dual Blades skills due to remembering how to do them. I don't think he managed to do <Starburst Stream> yet though.
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Old 2012-08-21, 17:49   Link #1978
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
I'm not sure guys.... but would it be that Kirito's Black sword that actually activated the Dual Blade Skill in the first place? It's like a special skill that requires that particular sword and Kirito was the lucky one to find it....
I'll go with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the sword has nothing to do with the skill.
==
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
OK.. I think you're missing one point. This may be me not understanding how the system works now in ALO.. but Kirito's not using "Dual Blades" against her basically because -- if she was around during SAO, he wouldn't have received it, it would have rightfully been hers.

Keep that in the back of your mind. If she had made it into SAO, Dual Blades would've been hers, and not Kirito's - that means "Dual Blades" and anything related to it isn't something of his own

That, and your comment about chaining combos.. Even he wasn't able to create his own 11-hit sword skill.. Remember the comment about how difficult it is to create your own? They don't call her the "Absolute Sword" for nothing..

Anyways, it confuses me why people have this feeling that "Kirito MUST be the strongest" .. the world is a very big place.
I'm saying Kirito MUST be the strongest. (Am I trying to put Kirito on par with Cirno or something?) I'm just saying that if Kirito was determined enough, things would be unpredictable (and the author, not liking the idea, chose not to give Kirito a real reason to win.) Also, who made you think that Kirito shouldn't have "rights to use Dual Blades because Yuuki supposedly owns it" thing? Kirito was just praising her reaction speed. BECAUSE she wasn't in SAO that Kirito "deserved that skill." In fact, the only time Kirito actually used a Dual Blades - esque tactic was during Calibur (and SS) and look HOW that turned out.

Next, chaining combos DOES NOT have anything to do with creating an OSS. Who made you think that? The <<Outside SYSTEM Skill>> (which is different from the OSS -- <<Outside Sword Skill>> ) <<Combo Chain>> utilizes hitting at the right moment (and place) to invoke another <<Sword Skill>> almost instantly. OSS requires lots of time to kill, mostly to practice the sword skill, something Kirito and Asuna don't have much because of RL. But, taking your words to count, an 11-combo skill is one of Yuuki's great plus. (You'd have to train so many hours to perfect that damn skill.)

In the end, Kirito settled for just <<Skills>> vs <<Skills>> and NOT <<Experience&Skills>> vs <<Skills>>.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneHige View Post
You seem to have forgotten that "Sleeping Knights" transferred from another game, and she basically created the OSS not long after.

Both Kirito and Asuna had "more time" to create OSS than Yuuki, but of course in real "game time" sense it may not be as much.

As for who's stronger, Kirito definitely has more experience than Yuuki, as evident with Spell Blast that impressed even Yuuki. But in a duel, not to the death, Yuuki's reaction speed is faster than Kirito, and as a result Kirito lost.

If Kirito uses Dual Blade he'll likely win due to his understanding of the Seed system better, but then again he'll never use that unless its necessary.
Adding to the point, Kirito and Asuna has this thing called <<RL School>> and Yuuki did not, which means Yuuki can focus the most on making that OSS more than Kirito and/or Asuna. (which makes Asuna's OSS pretty amazing...per se)
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Old 2012-08-21, 18:15   Link #1979
Awrya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Znail View Post
But in Mother's Rosario they introduced the option for players to create their own Sword Skills and thus Kirito could recreate his old Dual Blades skills due to remembering how to do them. I don't think he managed to do <Starburst Stream> yet though.
I thought it was a subtle hint that even though he could reproduce the movement, the system doesn't recognize using two swords as a viable option for recording, hence he couldn't record them as OSS.
The fact he could reproduce them as far as 99% indicates he should have been able to record it.
If 99% was not enough, players would have boycotted the game
Spoiler for Quote from Vol. 7:



If they were viable for recording, Kirito would have recorded and used [The Ecplise], a 27-hit skill on the Minotaur, instead of combining four individual skills for 16-hits.

It's also possible, that he could have recorded it, but simply chose not to, since he decided to only dual wield when the game severely affects the real world. Recording them as OSS might have conflicted with his decision?
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Old 2012-08-21, 18:42   Link #1980
Edgardes
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Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
If they were viable for recording, Kirito would have recorded and used [The Ecplise], a 27-hit skill on the Minotaur, instead of combining four individual skills for 16-hits.
The Kirito has trauma using [The Eclipse]...
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