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Old 2012-08-23, 11:55   Link #30121
battle22
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'He never said anything about it. Don't jump to conclusions.'
Then Dont try to prove that Yasu is male because he also didnt say anything about it, did the story confirm the gender? No it did not, Everything is left to our own interpretations and I dont want to hear this manga talk when the translation might be wrong (just like it was in Ep7 when the translator thought Lion was female and used 'she' ) . If you will provide me a raw of that page , I'll shut up XDD

Last edited by battle22; 2012-08-23 at 12:06.
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Old 2012-08-23, 12:19   Link #30122
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Leaving it to reader's interpretation doesn't mean that there is no answer.
Caller in the manga didn't state their gender, like in the novel, and yet Natsuhi still run after Genji to ask whether their guest, who turned out to be Erika later, is male. If she's not sure about child's gender then why would she do it?
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Old 2012-08-23, 12:24   Link #30123
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Well Since the voice from the phone resembles a male , of course she would ask genji that. Furthermore , The Child of 19 years ago is voiced by Battler, I dont know if this means anything but when riping the files, the childs voice files WERE in Battlers folder and I think Battler claimed he was the child of 19 years ago in the teaparty (I might be wrong, I dont remember very well). And We do have a red saying that beatrices motive is not revenge while the childs motive IS revenge to make Natsuhi feel horrible.

PS. for the file riping , I did it myself and can confirm this
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Old 2012-08-23, 12:49   Link #30124
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Well Since the voice from the phone resembles a male , of course she would ask genji that.
When Natsuhi just heard the voice she started doubting caller's gender but after realising who was that person the doubt never crossed her mind again.
Quote:
The Child of 19 years ago is voiced by Battler
It doesn't matter whether the caller is Battler or Yasu.
Quote:
I think Battler claimed he was the child of 19 years ago in the teaparty
I thought it was a way for Battler to deny Erika's theory without revealing the truth?
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And We do have a red saying that beatrices motive is not revenge while the childs motive IS revenge to make Natsuhi feel horrible.
The revenge on Natsuhi has nothing to do with the actual motive.
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Old 2012-08-23, 12:54   Link #30125
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`When Natsuhi just heard the voice she started doubting caller's gender but after realising who was that person the doubt never crossed her mind again.`
Well maybe she never really knew the gender and since the child called himself her son, she tought it was male. .
And this alone does not confirm Yasu being male, Why do you think Genji hid Yasu from kinzo, He was afraid that he would do the same mistake and surly Genji would not be that crazy to think Kinzo would do the same on a male.
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Old 2012-08-23, 13:11   Link #30126
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Well maybe she never really knew the gender and since the child called himself her son, she thought it was male. .
That person called themselves Natsuhi 'son' in novel. In the manga it was changed to 'child'.
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And this alone does not confirm Yasu being male
I'm trying to say that if Yasu is female she's not that child.
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Why do you think Genji hid Yasu from kinzo, He was afraid that he would do the same mistake and surly Genji would not be that crazy to think Kinzo would do the same on a male.
Kinzo thought Beatrice II was a reincarnation. I doubt Beatrice's reincarnation having a male body would stop him.
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Old 2012-08-23, 13:24   Link #30127
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Originally Posted by Kealym View Post

...whaaaat? What? O_o
Assuming you believe Yasu really is the cliff baby, Lion is the only version that didn't involve some hardcore cliff-ification. We cn excuse the masculin e presentation as Yasu already being able to pull off just as convincing a dude voice as a lady voice.
Yes I believe that Yasu was the baby thrown off the cliff and I don't see any evidence that can go against that besides speculation. I haven't seen any hard evidence that can actually disprove it. And yes I've seen people supporting male Yasu by saying it was the story that presented Yasu before the cliff fall which is why I was confused at that logic making no sense. I believe that it is possible for Yasu to have not been the caller but maybe it was Battler.
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Old 2012-08-23, 13:28   Link #30128
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I Believe it was Battler but as tempteste-san said , it does not matter, Natsuhis behavior suggest its male , Altho I want to deny that >< XDD
Lets say this, Battler claims he is the son of natsuhi , Natsuhi did not knew the gender of the child and since Battler claims he is a son, she starts to believe it as well. It was not important to her and this is a theory which my friend told me, hear me out. We know that Yasu is a child of incest right? What if she was born as a 'freak' and people were unable to determine if it was male or female and MAYBE this is the reason Natsuhi Hated that child so much
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Old 2012-08-23, 13:46   Link #30129
tempteste
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Natsuhi did not knew the gender of the child and since Battler claims he is a son, she starts to believe it as well.
Natsuhi is the one who started claiming that the child was male.
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We know that Yasu is a child of incest right? What if she was born as a 'freak' and people were unable to determine if it was male or female and MAYBE this is the reason Natsuhi Hated that child so much
The reason Natsuhi hated the child was stated in the ep5 and Yasu's gender issues started because of the injury she received in the cliff fall.
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Old 2012-08-23, 13:53   Link #30130
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Actually I've looked up incest before and seen what it can cause when it is between a Father and Daughter and I've concluded that it couldn't affect her genitalia but it is most likely responsible for why Yasu is so weak and small because incest can cause a child to be very underdeveloped and the thing you are referring to is called an Intersex where from the pictures I've seen of it looks like a combination of a penis and a vagina. This however can not be cause by incest from what I know.
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Old 2012-08-23, 13:53   Link #30131
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"Natsuhi is the one who started claiming that the child was male."
Really? O.o I have to check in the VN, Do you know which chapter is it?
"The reason Natsuhi hated the child was stated in the ep5 and Yasu's gender issues started because of the injury she received in the cliff fall. "
Well Maybe there was anathor reason as well...Ahh I can't seem to beat your arguments lol
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Old 2012-08-23, 14:00   Link #30132
tempteste
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Really? O.o I have to check in the VN, Do you know which chapter is it?
I meant manga. Chapter 4-5. In the novel the call was in chapter 3.
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Old 2012-08-23, 14:00   Link #30133
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Yeah Natsuhi hated the child because it was just an insult to her. She just wanted to be useful yet she was unable to have a child and saw it has an insult to her pride.
Actually on that have people noticed that the 7 adults each represent the 7 sins
Krauss = Sloth
Natsuhi = Pride
Eva = Greed
Hideyoshi = Gluttony
Rudolf = Lust
Kyrie = Envy
Rosa = Wrath
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Old 2012-08-23, 14:07   Link #30134
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Aha, The only time Natsuhi Calls the child 'Man' is in the final chapter, when she confesses everything. Here
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Old 2012-08-23, 14:18   Link #30135
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Originally Posted by Asuka0NK View Post
Actually I've looked up incest before and seen what it can cause when it is between a Father and Daughter and I've concluded that it couldn't affect her genitalia but it is most likely responsible for why Yasu is so weak and small because incest can cause a child to be very underdeveloped and the thing you are referring to is called an Intersex where from the pictures I've seen of it looks like a combination of a penis and a vagina. This however can not be cause by incest from what I know.
In all honesty, a singular case of inbreeding isn't very likely to have any serious negative effects on the child, and as someone else has already stated, we KNOW why Natsuhi hated the child's presence. Also, I think a case of ambiguous genitalia would have been mentioned, regardless of whether Natsuhi herself cared enough to change a diaper herself.

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Originally Posted by Asuka0NK View Post
Actually on that have people noticed that the 7 adults each represent the 7 sins
Krauss = Sloth
Natsuhi = Pride
Eva = Greed
Hideyoshi = Gluttony
Rudolf = Lust
Kyrie = Envy
Rosa = Wrath
Eh, it's one of those details that people tracked very closely in the beginning, to look for a pattern, but it really was just a superfluous affectation of the magical narrative. After all, several of the adults could just as well be several sins (Rosa was described as "lustful" in EP4, and both Eva and Krauss are just as prideful. Hideyoshi isn't even gluttonous at all, he's just fat. I mean, the dude's like 50 and runs a restaurant chain. And in EP3 where Kyrie got well matched with Leviathan, Rudolf had ... a kiiiinda appropriate battle with Belphegor)


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Aha, The only time Natsuhi Calls the child 'Man' is in the final chapter, when she confesses everything. Here
That's not saying much - it's the ONLY time she ever talks about it, after all. In her inner dialogue she calls the person a "man", repeatedly.
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Old 2012-08-23, 14:29   Link #30136
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I've actually wondered about why Natsuhi never questioned how a baby would remember being thrown off a cliff. Or maybe she did I haven't read EP 5 for a long time.
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Old 2012-08-23, 14:36   Link #30137
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She didnt. That much I can remember Lol
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Old 2012-08-23, 15:07   Link #30138
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Also I remember Ryukishi saying Sayo and Yoshia had secret meanings besides the whole number thing. Has anyone figured out what these are yet?
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Old 2012-08-23, 15:22   Link #30139
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Originally Posted by Asuka0NK View Post
I've actually wondered about why Natsuhi never questioned how a baby would remember being thrown off a cliff. Or maybe she did I haven't read EP 5 for a long time.
Natsuhi is not portrayed as being very smart. And honestly, that seems to be a detail Ryukishi himself is hoping you don't think very hard about.
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Old 2012-08-23, 19:22   Link #30140
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What if she was born as a 'freak' and people were unable to determine if it was male or female
Incest isn't labeled bad from a genetic standpoint because of that, it's more the shrinking of the gene pool and bringing out recessive diseases. Unless the gene for genital misgrowth was already in the family that is. I'm not sure incest is even that picky, you could just as well inherit a good recessive gene (it just wouldn't be as noticable, no-one maps the British royal family's genes for keeping their hair unil old or anything).

Now having six toes, that is something Yasu could have inherited.

Did the phonecalls in ep 5 start after Battler solved the epitaph? Because that would explain how he knew in the first place, much like how Yasu knows about the cliff dive (Natsuhi should have made some serious inquiries into Genji...)

Also cut Natsuhi some slack, she faked Kinzos murder pretty cleverly.
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