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View Poll Results: Total Eclipse - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 4 7.41%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 13 24.07%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 18 33.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 14.81%
6 out of 10 : Average 9 16.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.85%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.85%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-08-23, 09:52   Link #101
DoomRavager
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafael1932 View Post
A railgun is not a weapon that uses electricity ? this means that you can put more energy than a normal bullet that uses gunpowder. The more energy you put in the bullet the better are the speed, range and penetration – that why the raingun rate of fire is very slow making them more like a sniper rifle than a machine gun
I don’t know what is worse, seeing a burst railgun or seeing the guys killing the aliens face on. It would make far more sense if the railgun was used to snipe the laser class so the others mecha can be safely killing the others from the air like always.
As things stand the level of penetration they have rips right through Destroyers from the front like tissue paper. They're putting plenty of energy in. I mean the design's got input from the research department of a military base that was set up for the purpose of dealing in BETA tech and all, so they're probably not restricted by real-world railgun design sensibilities in terms of the kind of power they can pump out for rapid fire. While lasers are priority targets, thinning out large BETA charges before they can overrun your positions is also pretty damn important considering the ridiculous numbers they can throw at you, and if the shell velocities they're attaining at the moment are more than sufficient there's less to be gained from dialing them them even higher at the cost of rounds per minute.

Besides which, the idea of sniping Lasers instead of just laying down heavy blankets of indirect fire or using other BETA as cover to close in opens up the issue of presenting multiple Lasers with line of sight directly to your high-tech ass if you try to set up in a position that gives you a reliable view of the rear end of the BETA formations. Okay sure you could fire over the horizon I guess, but my point was that the energy per round they have at the moment is more than enough so why "snipe" piecemeal when you could just lay down a blanket of shells and get significantly more kills that way?

Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-08-23 at 10:20.
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Old 2012-08-23, 10:54   Link #102
grevierr
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Pretty crazy that the first railgun they create is a light machine gun. It would be easier by an order of magnitude or two to cool the barrel and rails of a railgun with a lower rate of fire.
Its not just the heat of the barrel, but the heat on the whole feeding mechanism caused when the rounds move through to the breech that cause friction, as there is no back blast to account for in a electromagnetic impulse driven firing system. The barrel itself should be relatively cool as the projectile is held in between the rails by the magnetic dead zone as it is accelerated down the line.
And in any case, if they lower the rate of fire, they would still also have problems with the power fluctuation control, which is actually what real world railguns have, on top of having a big enough fuse to control the electrical surge.
I'm interested to see why the hell is there a flame plume coming from the mouth since its not explosive driven, even if its the independently propelled rocket rounds (BOLTER ROUNDS!) that should ignite outside of the barrel, giving considerably different thermal flares. It should act more like a laser pointer or torch light.

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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Pity though that this world never developed airburst rounds. Why bother shooting through Destroyer armor when you can just go around it?
Laser class. :\

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafael1932 View Post
A railgun is not a weapon that uses electricity ? this means that you can put more energy than a normal bullet that uses gunpowder. The more energy you put in the bullet the better are the speed, range and penetration – that why the raingun rate of fire is very slow making them more like a sniper rifle than a machine gun
I don’t know what is worse, seeing a burst railgun or seeing the guys killing the aliens face on. It would make far more sense if the railgun was used to snipe the laser class so the others mecha can be safely killing the others from the air like always.
I believe you are referring to the traditional class of basic railgun design called the coilgun, which is the system the US navy was working on as released on news. As you can read up, there is a very real concern in controlling the electrical impulse energy such that it does not 'burn out' the mechanism, as real world materials currently do not have a 100% electrical efficiency conductor.
Other electromagnetic impulse designs for projectiles (railguns), using properly controlled heavy impulses of electricity in rapid succession, like electroplating methods, but in a linear form, can allow rapid acceleration of multiple projectiles down a liner path. However the trick is to get it done without any changes or 'vortex energy' in the path from previous firing or external sources, and reliable efficiency of the mechanical parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomRavager View Post
As things stand the level of penetration they have rips right through Destroyers head on like tissue paper. They're putting plenty of energy in. I mean the design's got input from the research department of a military base that was set up for the purpose of dealing in BETA tech and all, so they're probably not restricted by real-world railgun design sensibilities in terms of the kind of power they can pump out for rapid fire. While lasers are priority targets, thinning out BETA charges is also pretty important considering the ridiculous numbers they can throw at humans.

Besides which, the idea of sniping Lasers instead of just laying down heavy blankets of artillery fire or using other BETA as cover to close in opens up the issue of presenting multiple Lasers with line of sight directly to your high-tech ass if you try to set up in a position that gives you a reliable view of the rear end of the BETA formations.
Yup, the Type-99 is meant as a front-line direct fire support weapon against charging destroyer class, much as the HMG and MGs in WWI was used against mass charges of enemies with more bodies than tactics.
For laser class, as they stay behind the lines of charging enemies, indirect fire is best used, as can be seen by the use of the Type-87 support assault cannon in episode 2, though the ranges (1200m) seem more like standard rifle caliber trajectories rather then 36mm rounds. The projectiles are fired making use of the convex flight path to go over the terrain covering them from line of sight before curving down to hit the target. Someone still has to spot the target in range first though.
Still, beyond line of sight direct fire is the best, which was why the OTH 1200mm Bus Driver Cannon was created against laser class at a Hive.
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Old 2012-08-23, 11:35   Link #103
klare
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feels like Cryska is the useless one...

welcome back the betas btw, i think they should not put tanks or conventional weapons at the front line anymore
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Old 2012-08-23, 11:40   Link #104
black knight iust
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Originally Posted by klare View Post
feels like Cryska is the useless one...

welcome back the betas btw, i think they should not put tanks or conventional weapons at the front line anymore
that makes sense lets see if they figure it out
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Old 2012-08-23, 11:55   Link #105
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They kinda need their tanks, heavy support from long-range and indirect bombardment is kind of essential to TSF survival, TSFs are just the tip of the lance.
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Old 2012-08-23, 12:10   Link #106
black knight iust
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Originally Posted by DoomRavager View Post
They kinda need their tanks, heavy support from long-range and indirect bombardment is kind of essential to TSF survival, TSFs are just the tip of the lance.
but the dont need to put them where they will get ripped apart
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Old 2012-08-23, 13:41   Link #107
grevierr
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If the next episodes don't mention Russian Roulette, I'll be disappointed...
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Old 2012-08-23, 13:55   Link #108
LeoXiao
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Originally Posted by klare View Post
feels like Cryska is the useless one...

welcome back the betas btw, i think they should not put tanks or conventional weapons at the front line anymore
Well TBH all they need are some of those badass AT depleted-uranium shells. I'd bet tanks are much easier to build than TSFs.
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Old 2012-08-23, 16:41   Link #109
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Isn't it mroe of a case of "tanks are better than nothing" ? especially since this is after wwii so they might have a lot of tanks lying around that are not going to serve any other use anyway.
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Old 2012-08-23, 16:45   Link #110
lightbringer
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but the dont need to put them where they will get ripped apart
As far as I can tell, those tanks were trying to get the hell out while laying down the fire. They were going pretty fast in the opposite direction, maybe even faster than the fastest tanks can actually drive. The beta are not exactly slow either though. It's more like a case of the shifting front line catching them with the pants down, maybe?
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Old 2012-08-23, 16:48   Link #111
black knight iust
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a tank caught up to another tank
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Old 2012-08-23, 16:49   Link #112
Silvance
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Originally Posted by black knight iust View Post
a tank caught up to another tank
It was an interesting scene now that I think about it. Tank against Tank.
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Old 2012-08-23, 17:00   Link #113
kaizerknight01
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Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
It was an interesting scene now that I think about it. Tank against Tank.
I just wished the beta tank was the receiving end of this TANK

Spoiler for Let's roll over them!!!:

Last edited by kaizerknight01; 2012-08-23 at 17:15.
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Old 2012-08-23, 19:25   Link #114
Angrypokstick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post
Isn't it mroe of a case of "tanks are better than nothing" ? especially since this is after wwii so they might have a lot of tanks lying around that are not going to serve any other use anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
As far as I can tell, those tanks were trying to get the hell out while laying down the fire. They were going pretty fast in the opposite direction, maybe even faster than the fastest tanks can actually drive. The beta are not exactly slow either though. It's more like a case of the shifting front line catching them with the pants down, maybe?
just pointing out. that in muvluv those tanks are not left overs from WW2. Those are modern day era tanks. Russia uses the T-80 and T-90 series tank as seen in this episode. While muvluv Americans use M1 Abrams and Japanese use Type 90 tank. And many of these Modern tanks can achieve 40mph+(70km/h) even in off road conditions.
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Old 2012-08-23, 21:01   Link #115
DezoPenguin
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Originally Posted by Angrypokstick View Post
just pointing out. that in muvluv those tanks are not left overs from WW2. Those are modern day era tanks. Russia uses the T-80 and T-90 series tank as seen in this episode. While muvluv Americans use M1 Abrams and Japanese use Type 90 tank. And many of these Modern tanks can achieve 40mph+(70km/h) even in off road conditions.
...Which means that MLA-verse militaries are spending not only substantial chunks of their military budgets on building tanks, but also in developing new tanks? Are they that effective dollar-for-dollar against BETA to justify not putting that money and those industrial resources into them rather than TSFs?
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Old 2012-08-23, 22:44   Link #116
John117xCortana
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Combined arms doctrine.

So any new preview pictures of the next ep ?
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Old 2012-08-23, 23:13   Link #117
DoomRavager
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So any new preview pictures of the next ep ?
One page ago, courtesy of Silvance.
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Old 2012-08-24, 01:17   Link #118
Timsel
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It was an interesting scene now that I think about it. Tank against Tank.
Well, it seems that in 8 serie tank-class BETA (that one, teared off the turret from T-80) was pictured as two time larger that in 2 serie, when the mob of them wanted to eat poor Yui.
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Old 2012-08-24, 03:19   Link #119
grevierr
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Well, it seems that in 8 serie tank-class BETA (that one, teared off the turret from T-80) was pictured as two time larger that in 2 serie, when the mob of them wanted to eat poor Yui.
Not exactly, the T-90 is 2.2 m high, while the Tank class BETA is 2.8m on average. We only saw the mouth part at Yui's scene, which was at the thread level on the tank.
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Old 2012-08-26, 10:19   Link #120
Tempester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
...Which means that MLA-verse militaries are spending not only substantial chunks of their military budgets on building tanks, but also in developing new tanks? Are they that effective dollar-for-dollar against BETA to justify not putting that money and those industrial resources into them rather than TSFs?
If you have the technology and means to improve something, why shouldn't you improve it? If anything, they aren't upgrading the tanks enough when you compare their tech with the tech used on TSFs, but that's just the classic Japanese "humanoid robots are better" idiotic excuse at work again.
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