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Old 2012-08-18, 11:29   Link #241
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Multi-monitor setups are generally ignored since people generally don't use them.
I take it that you have never seen a home trader setting up his floor.
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Old 2012-08-18, 12:07   Link #242
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Multi-monitor setups are generally ignored since people generally don't use them.
Gamers? People who work at home? (traders, admins, processors, etc)

General purpose operating systems, especially if a software vendor is going to provide basically only "one code branch" should be a Swiss Army Knife. It should be configurable and it shouldn't force only one kind of "desktop view" though a style may permeate for branding blah blah.
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Old 2012-08-18, 12:08   Link #243
sa547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Multi-monitor setups are generally ignored since people generally don't use them.
Apart from traders, software developers, and other business users demanding large amounts of information at a glance, I've seen a high-end gaming rig that used several 18.5" monitors at once and in action, and this is only for some home-based gaming enthusiasts who can afford it.

Quote:
I think only MMO's have a problem with Windows 8 right now, so far, anything that runs on Windows 7, runs well.
True that, especially Korean MMOs that exclusively use the (monopolistic and questionable) Gameguard anti-hack protection scheme, which sometimes doesn't work well with some versions of Windows (beyond XP).
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Old 2012-08-18, 16:47   Link #244
creb
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Businesses are slow to adopt new practices. Let's not pretend that new releases of software have any immediate impact on Microsoft's business side of things, especially when MS seems comitted to pushing out OS releases every couple years now.

I'm sure when businesses finally feel like they have no choice but to upgrade from Windows XP, there'll be an OS waiting for them. Whether that's 9, 15, Server 32, or whatever. To pretend that Windows 8 was going to be it, regardless of what it looked/felt/operated like, is naive. Heck, we've got servers still running NT, and my employer employs tens of thousands of employees. I'm sure there are some unique snowflakes out there who's businesses keep at the cutting edge, but that's definitely not true for most.

On a personal side, I agree that the new Start menu is infinitely superior to the old, and that the grousing is similar to the grousing you hear every single time the UI has been changed, starting from the very first introduction of a graphical UI at all. Heck, there was a time when I was a young and overly emotional where I vowed to be command line forever, so it's not like I'm innocent of overemotional faux outrage.

My only real issue with the Metro UI is that it doesn't do a better job of meshing touch and mouse/keyboard interaction. It should be a seamless experience moving between the two ways of interacting with the UI, and right now, it isn't. A very seemingly obvious first would be to let the mouse actually act identical to one's finger(s) on a touchscreen. ie: Press your left mouse button down, and drag/swipe should do the exact same thing as pressing your finger down and swiping. Right now, it doesn't, and thus scrolling with your mouse isn't as refined as scrolling on a touchscreen with your finger. As the Metro UI seems to encourage scrollable interfaces, I'm kind of surprised this wasn't resolved early on. It's possible it's fully capable of doing just that when a competent dev writes an app for Metro, but I've yet to see an app that does yet, and like any app store, the Windows store is 99% filled with garbage apps coded without an ounce of heart or effort. I do really like Cocktail Flow, and a music player plugin would make it super sweet.

An app that I'd love to see for those aspiring app writers out there? A live tile clock. It's possible one exists, but I have no patience for wading through app stores. Again, I reference my comment about how every single app store on the planet is 99% useless junk.

That said, it's also obvious that due to the Metro UI, Windows 8 is going to be a transitional OS, and that Windows 9 will likely be a more refined experience at seamlessly gaping the mouse/keyboard-touch experience.
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Old 2012-08-18, 17:04   Link #245
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
A very seemingly obvious first would be to let the mouse actually act identical to one's finger(s) on a touchscreen.
I'm not so sure that is such a good idea. One area in Windows 8 where that is the case is in the primary way of closing non-desktop apps. The mouse actually acts the same way as a finger where you tap (click) and hold and drag the app to the bottom.

Now, while I have gotten used to it after nearly a year of using Windows 8, it's still not the best use of a mouse in my opinion.

As far as scrolling is concerned, I prefer to scroll with the scroll wheel, whether horizontally or vertically. I personally like that Windows 8, for the most part, uses different interactions between mouse and touch.
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Old 2012-08-18, 20:01   Link #246
felix
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Does windows 8 actually have multi-touch built-in? as in is it used anywhere?
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Old 2012-08-18, 21:11   Link #247
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Does windows 8 actually have multi-touch built-in? as in is it used anywhere?
Moving a tile across the start screen and zooming are two examples in Windows 8 that make use of multi-touch.
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Old 2012-08-18, 22:54   Link #248
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
OS X, worse than Windows apparently. Mountain Lion apparently fixes things with full screen mode greying out other monitors.
Lion (previous version) did that, as well, but the application always went to one monitor. Mountain Lion's "fix" was that now you can specify which monitor the full-screen application goes to. It's not really a fix at all; then again, the application full-screen mode seems like it was designed for small screens (like the 11" and 13" laptop systems). Combined with the ability to swipe between full-screen applications, most days I don't even bother to plug in my secondary monitor, though.

I've had and used a dual-screen setup (and went to a tri-screen setup in my research lab) for years now, but I never got the impression that it was really a mainstream thing. My favorite multi-monitor software was Ultramon, which I used with Windows XP. I doubt we'll see anything like that baked into an operating system as long as single-monitor systems are the majority standard.
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Old 2012-08-19, 10:17   Link #249
Random32
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Quote:
If you walked into the offices of system administrators and application developers, you'd see a lot of multi-monitor setups.
Quote:
Apart from traders, software developers, and other business users demanding large amounts of information at a glance, I've seen a high-end gaming rig that used several 18.5" monitors at once and in action, and this is only for some home-based gaming enthusiasts who can afford it.
Quote:
Gamers? People who work at home? (traders, admins, processors, etc)
Quote:
I take it that you have never seen a home trader setting up his floor.
I said normal people. Not traders, programmers, sysadmins, gamers, etc.

Despite the benefits of multiple monitor setups, less than 15% of desktops have more than 1 monitor hooked up, and less than 5% of laptops are ever hooked up to external monitors. The survey is skewed towards high end, so the real numbers are actually even lower. [citation]
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Old 2012-08-19, 11:30   Link #250
felix
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So 1 in 10 users has at least dual monitors... and that's not significant for it "not to suck so bad"?

It's not really even such a big deal: one option here on how edges are interpreted, some option for desktop backgrounds, some key for uh, I don't know, lock you in a screen or something? FFS a monkey could program it for peanuts.
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Old 2012-08-19, 12:13   Link #251
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
I said normal people. Not traders, programmers, sysadmins, gamers, etc.
So you are saying that traders are not normal people? I demand that you bury yourself alive under an apple tree in the name of Horo! Now!

Actually the number of traders who use multi-screen setups are increasing, especially those dealing in futures. And as traders become more electronic, no doubt in the future trading on two screens or more will be a norm.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-08-19, 13:01   Link #252
Random32
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Okay, I will change my terminology. Please replace "normal people" with "plebeians who don't realize the benefits of multiple monitors." My point still stands that we multi monitor users are few and far between.

As for the problem with hot corners and multi monitor setups, just don't bother with them. Use the shortcuts. Even if you use single monitor only, its a much better way of doing things if you don't have touch. WinKey brings up StartScreen/Search, WinKey+C brings up charms.
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Old 2012-08-19, 13:11   Link #253
felix
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My point still stands that we multi monitor users are few and far between.
Oh please, if you got someone like me talking about them, your reign as special snowflake has ended.

Quote:
As for the problem with hot corners and multi monitor setups, just don't bother with them. Use the shortcuts. Even if you use single monitor only, its a much better way of doing things if you don't have touch. WinKey brings up StartScreen/Search, WinKey+C brings up charms.
Like I said... what's the shortcut for splitting windows on a screen?? you know so they occupy only half a screen each. I think it was called tiling in previous versions of the OS.
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Old 2012-08-19, 15:49   Link #254
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Like I said... what's the shortcut for splitting windows on a screen?? you know so they occupy only half a screen each. I think it was called tiling in previous versions of the OS.
If you want to tile all of your non-minimized windows at once, right-click on the taskbar and choose the tiling option you want.

Otherwise, you can use the Windows key and the Left/Right arrow keys to snap an active window to the left/right of the screen as well as the Windows key and the Up/Down arrow keys to maximize/restore an active window.
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Old 2012-08-19, 16:02   Link #255
monster
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Here's an image I found: Keyboard shortcuts for Windows 8
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Old 2012-08-20, 12:47   Link #256
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
If you want to tile all of your non-minimized windows at once, right-click on the taskbar and choose the tiling option you want.

Otherwise, you can use the Windows key and the Left/Right arrow keys to snap an active window to the left/right of the screen as well as the Windows key and the Up/Down arrow keys to maximize/restore an active window.
Maybe it's just Chrome but WinKey+Up doesn't maximize. But thanks for the right/left tip! Helps a lot.
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Old 2012-08-21, 10:45   Link #257
monster
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Registration is officially open for the $14.99 (U.S.) Windows Upgrade Offer.

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If you purchase or have purchased an eligible Windows 7 PC anytime between June 2, 2012 and January 31, 2013 you will be able to purchase an upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for only $14.99 (U.S.) which will be redeemable when Windows 8 is generally available on October 26th.

You will have until February 28, 2013 to register for the offer to get Windows 8 Pro for $14.99.

Did you already buy an awesome Windows 7 PC prior to June 2nd (or have a Windows 7 PC not eligible for the offer)? Not to worry! Starting on October 26th, you will be able to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for $39.99!

Both the Windows Upgrade Offer and $39.99 upgrade promotion is available in 140 countries worldwide, with 37 supported languages, and 23 supported currencies (we’ve added 9 additional countries over the original 131!).
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Old 2012-08-24, 11:33   Link #258
SeijiSensei
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Windows 8 Tells Microsoft About Everything You Install, Not Very Securely

Quote:
Windows 8 has a new feature called Windows SmartScreen, which is turned on by default. Windows SmartScreen’s purpose is to “screen” every single application you try to install from the Internet in order to inform you whether it’s safe to proceed with installing it or not. Here’s how SmartScreen works:
  1. You download any application from the Internet. Say, the Tor Browser Bundle.
  2. You open the installer. Windows SmartScreen gathers some identifying information about your application, and sends the data to Microsoft.
  3. If Microsoft replies saying that the application is not signed with a proper certificate, the user gets an error that looks something like this.
There are a few serious problems here. The big problem is that Windows 8 is configured to immediately tell Microsoft about every app you download and install. This is a very serious privacy problem, specifically because Microsoft is the central point of authority and data collection/retention here and therefore becomes vulnerable to being served judicial subpoenas or National Security Letters intended to monitor targeted users. This situation is exacerbated when Windows 8 is deployed in countries experiencing political turmoil or repressive political situations.
One commentator who dismissed this as a "scare" tactic apparently now has second thoughts.

As a Linux user, nearly all my applications come from repositories which could, in theory, be monitored to compile a list of all applications downloaded to my IP address. However there are literally hundreds of repositories across the globe, and I can use any one that I choose. In the case of Windows 8 there's only one registry located in Redmond, Washington, and thus under the jurisdiction of the Department of Homeland Security.
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Old 2012-08-24, 12:54   Link #259
monster
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Quote:
Windows 8 has a new feature called Windows SmartScreen, which is turned on by default.
I believe you can choose to not turn on SmartScreen during setup. But, yes, if you choose the recommended express setup, it will be turned on.
Quote:
The big problem is that Windows 8 is configured to immediately tell Microsoft about every app you download and install.
Well, that is how the SmartScreen service works. The problem would then be up to the user. If they find value in the service, then turn it on, if not, then turn it off.
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Old 2012-08-24, 13:02   Link #260
aeriolewinters
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Can I ask? Is spreading FUD a bannable offense? also, I've used Linux myself and I like it, but I'm not going to act superior in an obvious windows thread like I had some kind of moral high ground.
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