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Old 2012-08-24, 11:22   Link #41
Jouten
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
I don't think that's much of an excuse. Both Crocodile and Eneru are logias and they showed a lot more variation in their abilities against Luffy than Smoker ever did so far (case in point: Eneru was one of the first enemy haki users we've seen in the series, despite haki not having been properly introduced to us readers at the time). That's why I'm hoping that our smokey friend reveals that he knows some Smoke-Fu or learned MMA or something during the skip, lest I find him to be as interesting as watching paint dry from this moment forth.....
Really? I think Smoker has shown great versatility of his powers. He's just more a fighter like Luffy who relies on his physical attacks than on his Logia attacks (Just recently he used something similar like Gomu Gomu no Gatling). Of course he could try to suffocate people in smoke and have a fighting style more like Caesar, but why should he do this if he can just hit someone in the face with a strong blow by propelling himself towards him?
Smoker is one of the faster Logia users, too (he was faster than Gear 2nd Luffy, I think even Enel can't keep up with that)
Also he probably designed the bike he rides by himself, which is pretty impressive, if you ask me.

And it's not like we ever saw Smoker go all out on someone. I really hope the fight againt Vergo changes that. People think Smoker has a weak DF, but he would beat someone like Crocodile, if you ask me, who has a rather powerful DF, but didn't train his physical abilities.
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Old 2012-08-24, 12:03   Link #42
grey_1960
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Coby
I agree with The Small One. I think Coby will be Luffy's Garp. Rogers and Garp shared special friendship for each other. Smoker and Luffy have respect and understanding. But Coby and Luffy have more of a friendship developed. What Rayleigh was to Luffy for training, Garp will be to Coby for his two year time skip (If he trained him.) Before the two year time skip Luffy had only two things to rely on. His crew and Garp's training. I expect great things from Coby after the timeskip.

Jouten
I am with you on the hopes we get to see another side of Smoker that has never been shown to the readers.
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Old 2012-08-24, 12:17   Link #43
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^So basically you think Coby's an admiral by now? Gee, I wonder why this doesn't surprise me?
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Old 2012-08-24, 12:37   Link #44
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Hey I am just looking at Garp's background. He trained Luffy, fought with rogers, and he is knowledgeable with Haki. Coby has proven he can use haki. Coby goal is also to become admiral. Has for Admiral level I don't think so. I would say Vice admiral level (Now were he stands among them I don't know). But I won't be surprised if he resembles Garps fighting style (Extreme Super Strength and powerful Haki). Coby will be what Garp has always wanted out of Luffy and Ace. To be marines.
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Old 2012-08-24, 12:51   Link #45
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Coby
I think Coby will be Luffy's Garp. Rogers and Garp shared special friendship for each other. Smoker and Luffy have respect and understanding. But Coby and Luffy have more of a friendship developed.
Roger said he trusted Garp just as much as his crewmates, which is why he entrusted Ace's care to him. But this was confessed to Garp during Roger's imprisonment right before his death, so it's not like they were always friends from the beginning of their encounters. The friendship took time to develop, which could very well be the same for Smoker and Luffy in the future.

Smoker has been depicted as more analogous to Garp than Coby has.
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Old 2012-08-24, 13:29   Link #46
itachi-san314
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Garp was supposed to be equals with Roger, having cornered him numerous times over the years.

When has Coby ever fought Luffy to a near standstill, or cornered him at all? Being trained by Garp is irrelevant in this comparison.
It's true that Coby hasn't done much yet, but I think we are still in the building up process of that rivalry. Coby means a lot more to Luffy than Smoker does which should say a lot already. I doubt Coby will stop improving and if he doesn't improve to a point of being able to corner Luffy and have that rivalry at some point then I think a lot of story potential will be lost. I'm curious to see how much Coby has developed although I'm sure he's not at Luffy's level yet. But Luffy is also not at PK level yet either. It will take a while, but I fully expect to see that Garp-Roger relationship develop between Coby and Luffy before all is said and done.
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Old 2012-08-24, 13:33   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Roger said he trusted Garp just as much as his crewmates, which is why he entrusted Ace's care to him. But this was confessed to Garp during Roger's imprisonment right before his death, so it's not like they were always friends from the beginning of their encounters. The friendship took time to develop, which could very well be the same for Smoker and Luffy in the future.

Smoker has been depicted as more analogous to Garp than Coby has.
^
There are differences that lead me to believe Coby will be that garp. Smoker and Coby's relationship with Luffy is different. Coby has a deeper relationship then Smoker. Luffy impacted Coby's life greatly and they are friends. Smoker was saved by Luffy once, but that was it. 99.9999% of Smoker's life is his own doing not Luffy's influence. Coby has no devil fruit, but he has haki, and he being trained by Garp also Coby is more in line with luffy's generational age then Smoker is. Smoker is more like Ace's, he may be even older.
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Old 2012-08-24, 13:39   Link #48
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^
There are differences that lead me to believe Coby will be that garp. Smoker and Coby's relationship with Luffy is different. Coby has a deeper relationship then Smoker. Luffy impacted Coby's life greatly and they are friends. Smoker was saved by Luffy once, but that was it. 99.9999% of Smoker's life is his own doing not Luffy's influence. Coby has no devil fruit, but he has haki, and he being trained by Garp.
None of that matters for reasons I already explained. The fact of the matter is that Smoker has been depicted much more closely to Garp than Coby has AS OF NOW.
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Old 2012-08-24, 14:06   Link #49
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A lot of it does matter. It's called story development. Story development is not a NOW thing. It takes time. You don't show a character like coby and then use him has cannon fodder. There is a reason Oda built Coby and gave him the scenes he did. Has for Smoker, what kind of friendship does he have that you could compare to Coby's? If it is fighting almost everyone in the one piece universe has fought with him. Chasing him, Smoker is not the only marine to do that. Garp, Admiral Akoiji, Admiral Kizaru, Admiral Akianu, Hina, and half the marines. Rogers gave his only son to Garp, because he knew Garp and trusted him. Right now I don't see that kind of trust with Smoker and Luffy.
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Old 2012-08-24, 14:11   Link #50
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^
A lot of it does matter. It's called story development. Story development is not a NOW thing. It takes time. You don't show a character like coby and then use him has cannon fodder. There is a reason Oda built Coby and gave him the scenes he did. Has for Smoker, what kind of friendship does he have that you could compare to Coby's? If it is fighting almost everyone in the one piece universe has fought with him. Chasing him, Smoker is not the only marine to do that. Garp, Admiral Akoiji, Admiral Kizaru, Admiral Akianu, Hina, and half the marines. Rogers gave his only son to Garp, because he knew Garp and trusted him. Right now I don't see that kind of trust with Smoker and Luffy.
And this just shows you didn't understand a single thing from my last post about Garp and Roger. I said it took time for Roger and Garp's friendship to develop, which could very well be the same thing for Smoker and Luffy. Furthermore, you don't have to be a 100% copy of someone to be their successor.

Read carefully; it avoids needless arguments.
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Old 2012-08-24, 15:02   Link #51
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Heh, this debate got me thinking: If Coby is Luffy's Garp, then who would be Sengoku (who's pretty much Garp's surrogate brother)? Helmeppo? Hell, even Zoro forgot who he was, and that's despite the fact he nearly got him executed early in the series! THAT just goes to show how much he stands out!
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Old 2012-08-24, 15:16   Link #52
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Who knows, things may change later on. But so far, Smoker is definitely the marine that's been comparable to Garp in that he's been relentlessly chasing the main character of the story since the beginning. Like I said before, Smoker has been established as a recurring threat.

Coby may actually turn out to be the new Sengoku. I can see him molding the marines in his image on what justice really is. Seeing as how his dream is to become an admiral, he seems to be more ambitious than Smoker when it comes to the hierarchy of the marines. Smoker doesn't seem to care about that stuff. As long as criminals are captured/punished, he's complacent with the situation. Furthermore, I don't see Smoker carrying out administrative duties on a desk job; that just doesn't fit his personality because he likes to do things his own way. So that's another similarity he shares with Garp.
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Old 2012-08-24, 15:30   Link #53
itachi-san314
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The fact of the matter is that Smoker has been depicted much more closely to Garp than Coby has AS OF NOW.
you're basing that on actions and power which is correct in a sense. but in another sense, emotional impact wise, smoker is not on coby's level. i can't see luffy ever identifying with smoker as he does coby. smoker and luffy aren't on the same level from luffy's POV. smoker is an older attack dog and luffy doesn't really care about him. in the very least, luffy doesn't take him seriously (not that he takes many people seriously anyway) but coby, like luffy, has a dream and an ideology and even though they are opposing, they each take each other's dream seriously and respect each other for it.

i can see it both ways and certainly smoker is more there right now as you say, but story-wise, i think coby has more of a chance in developing into that garp-like character further down the road.

as for helmeppo.. lol i doubt oda will try to mirror the past characters that identically, but who knows? he can do pretty much anything and make it work somehow
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Old 2012-08-24, 15:34   Link #54
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No matter what happens, Coby can't fill the role of Luffy's Garp anymore. First of all it's impossible that he can catch up to Luffy in those two years. And the adventure is already half over. So they would have to meet Coby somewhere in the New World (which is already not very likely, because he is not stationed there) just for him to realize that he's again too weak and has to again get a huge power boost, to meet Luffy at a later point of the story.
And if by that time we're not nearing the end of the series this is just getting ridiculous.
I don't even understand why people try to push Coby in Garp's role. He just doesn't fit that role.
He might become the Garp of the next generation after Luffy, but not of this generation.
I don't doubt that Coby and Luffy will meet again (also Luffy will meet Garp again, too probably), but Coby will just realize that he'll never catch up to someone to Luffy, but will stay true to his dream.

I guess we'll see him become an Admiral in the epilogue or something.
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Old 2012-08-24, 16:56   Link #55
grey_1960
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
And this just shows you didn't understand a single thing from my last post about Garp and Roger. I said it took time for Roger and Garp's friendship to develop, which could very well be the same thing for Smoker and Luffy. Furthermore, you don't have to be a 100% copy of someone to be their successor.

Read carefully; it avoids needless arguments.
^
What is there to read? I gave you the difference between Coby's relationship and Smokers relationship with Luffy. You could not even give me anything that could compare to Coby's link with Luffy. Were this far in the story, shouldn't oda have done something by now to foster or hint at more developed relationship between Smoker and Luffy?

Jouten
You should ask oda that question. He is the one that gave Coby Haki, He brought Coby to MarineFord. He introduced Coby to Luffy in the very beginning of Luffy's journey. He gave Coby's inspiration to become Admiral. Luffy is Coby's inspiration has Shanks was Luffy's inspiration. With Garps training I think Coby will be a huge surprise for most readers.
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Old 2012-08-24, 17:13   Link #56
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Is everyone forgetting, that in alabasta, Luffy saved smokers life and said to him: "You know.. I don't hate you. (:" and then smoker blushed and let him go free.
That's one of the biggest hints of their Garp X Roger relationship.
Since the begining smoker knew that Luffy would become dangerous in the future. Ever since he saw Luffy smile at his own execution in lougetown.
Smoker X Luffy is so similar to Garp X Roger that it's scary!
Roger and Garp never have been friends like Luffy and Colby. Garp hated Roger, just like how Smoker hates Luffy. but im willing to bet money, that just like how Roger trusted Garp with protecting his child, Luffy would trust Smoker just the same. And to be honest, just like how Garp thinks the marines don't do everything the way they should, Smoker thinks the same way, from what we've seen in the result of Alabasta when the government gave Smoker all of the credit.
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Old 2012-08-24, 17:35   Link #57
Jouten
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^
What is there to read? I gave you the difference between Coby's relationship and Smokers relationship with Luffy. You could not even give me anything that could compare to Coby's link with Luffy. Were this far in the story, shouldn't oda have done something by now to foster or hint at more developed relationship between Smoker and Luffy?

Jouten
You should ask oda that question. He is the one that gave Coby Haki, He brought Coby to MarineFord. He introduced Coby to Luffy in the very beginning of Luffy's journey. He gave Coby's inspiration to become Admiral. Luffy is Coby's inspiration has Shanks was Luffy's inspiration. With Garps training I think Coby will be a huge surprise for most readers.
You're focusing too much on the "Garp and Roger were friends" thing. They weren't friends as Pixelcreek said. They had many encounters and Garp always tried to capture Roger, just like how Smoker always tries to capture Luffy. Garp cornered Roger many times, but he always escaped, just like how Smoker cornered Luffy many times and he always escapes.
Roger and Garp have probably gone through so many things that they grew to trust each other, despite not being friends, but enemies. Just how Smoker and Luffy could trust each other if the situation demands it.

You're right. Coby got all his inspiration from Luffy. He looks up to him, admires him, Luffy is to Coby like Shanks is to Luffy. And that's exactly why Coby will never ever fill the role of Luffy's Garp. That role is filled by the guy who does exactly the same things Garp did when that other pirate was emerging to becoming the pirate king.

Heck the whole Smoker-Luffy relationship is so similar to the Garp-Roger relationship that this is the sole reason why people try fit other characters in the roles of Whitebeard, Shiki, Sen Goku, Buggy, Rayleigh, etc. because now they think every relationship Roger had needs to be copied by Luffy.
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Old 2012-08-24, 17:51   Link #58
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^
What is there to read? I gave you the difference between Coby's relationship and Smokers relationship with Luffy. You could not even give me anything that could compare to Coby's link with Luffy. Were this far in the story, shouldn't oda have done something by now to foster or hint at more developed relationship between Smoker and Luffy?
A difference in relationship that I already acknowledged from the very beginning of this discussion, but I guess you missed that. You just don't get it despite everything I've already told you thoroughly.

It doesn't matter if Luffy and Coby have been friends since the very beginning.
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Old 2012-08-24, 18:36   Link #59
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Say what you will. If your reading Naruto or Fairy tales I would agree with you. But I don’t see Oda creating Coby just so he can fill a page. I expect that out of other manga. Coby has a purpose and I won’t be surprised if his role will be bigger in the future.

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Originally Posted by Jouten View Post
You're focusing too much on the "Garp and Roger were friends" thing. They weren't friends as Pixelcreek said. They had many encounters and Garp always tried to capture Roger, just like how Smoker always tries to capture Luffy. Garp cornered Roger many times, but he always escaped, just like how Smoker cornered Luffy many times and he always escapes.
Roger and Garp have probably gone through so many things that they grew to trust each other, despite not being friends, but enemies. Just how Smoker and Luffy could trust each other if the situation demands it.

You're right. Coby got all his inspiration from Luffy. He looks up to him, admires him, Luffy is to Coby like Shanks is to Luffy. And that's exactly why Coby will never ever fill the role of Luffy's Garp. That role is filled by the guy who does exactly the same things Garp did when that other pirate was emerging to becoming the pirate king.

Heck the whole Smoker-Luffy relationship is so similar to the Garp-Roger relationship that this is the sole reason why people try fit other characters in the roles of Whitebeard, Shiki, Sen Goku, Buggy, Rayleigh, etc. because now they think every relationship Roger had needs to be copied by Luffy.
^
Interesting you would say I am focusing on Garp and Roger relationship to much when you are using it too compare Smoker and Luffy. You use Garp’s and Rogers past like its a guide line for Smoker and Luffy. Fact remains Coby is a Marine and Luffy is a pirate. There will be confrontations. Luffy has already fought Coby once at Marineford (Not Coby's greatest moment).

Final note I don't get the strong connection feeling between Smoker and Luffy then I do with Luffy and Coby. I feel Luffy and Coby's connection is the same connection Garp and Rogers had (That does not mean the same experience).

Last edited by grey_1960; 2012-08-24 at 18:56.
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Old 2012-08-24, 20:49   Link #60
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but in another sense, emotional impact wise, smoker is not on coby's level
There were no emotional ties between Garp and Roger until Roger was in prison; before that, their relationship was based on their encounters at sea (i.e. their battles)...I don't think we will see even a single serious fight between Coby and Luffy, just because I don't see Coby catching up with Luffy until after the series ends.

Smoker is the character that can most closely be compared with Luffy's 'Garp', as Blackbeard has explained above.
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