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Old 2012-08-24, 18:03   Link #9461
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So, what did the white and shadow dragons die of? Laughter?
^THIS so very much!
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Old 2012-08-24, 21:39   Link #9462
~Yami~
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I also getting confused... so basically those Sabertooth dragonslayer duo is nowhere stronger than Natsu and Gajeel...
I think we hate this chapter because at the beginning of the arc, we expect they will show that they are the equal rivals of Natsu but it seems not at all
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Old 2012-08-24, 21:39   Link #9463
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I'm glad Natsu crushed the subplot twins like they were nothing. Afterall if Natsu has to pull out all the stops against those 2 jokers what's he going to have left to show off when the main battle starts.
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Old 2012-08-24, 21:58   Link #9464
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Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
I also getting confused... so basically those Sabertooth dragonslayer duo is nowhere stronger than Natsu and Gajeel...
I think we hate this chapter because at the beginning of the arc, we expect they will show that they are the equal rivals of Natsu but it seems not at all
What's the lesson here kids? Society will classify any pair of pretty people as the strongest of anything to cure their 7 year boredom.
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Old 2012-08-24, 22:10   Link #9465
aliasxn
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Originally Posted by MAX_COLA_POWER! View Post
Hey guys, I wanna invite you all to the campfire over at OM right now, SO MUCH flames of hate for this chapter over there, I love it^^. Anyhoo, back on topic, I think Mavis kinda crossed the fourth wall there and basically said to all the haters, yeah we trollin, you mad? Hell, I think her reaction to the Dragon farts of these 2 was like, *monotone*omagah, dragon force, better look shocked to sell this.
Yeah, I don't understand where all the salt is coming from... Well, I mean, I do. But if nakama power or other such asspull power ups bother you, why are you reading a shonen fighting manga in the first place? Seriously?

And btw, did anything up to this point indicate that ST wasn't going to lose convincingly when it really mattered? And does this even count as nakama power? Natsu didn't even get serious.
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Old 2012-08-24, 23:18   Link #9466
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It isn't all that hard to imagine Natsu beating the living crap out of those two.

Remember when Natsu was fighting the guild master? and pressured him? And I'm talking about a GM in which the entire guild trembled at the *thought* of fighting their master.

Also, I'm starting to think these guys didn't kill the dragons. They were just claiming to do so, to allow them to boast how powerful they are over the old generation.
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Old 2012-08-25, 00:26   Link #9467
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Originally Posted by Lunarskylar View Post
yes, but at the same time i was under the implications that the reason they needed 2nd origin is because all the fighters of the current era had unlocked it themselves over the past 7 years. in fact it was implied that erza had already unlocked hers (which is why she wasn't in any pain after ultear unlocked hers), so everyone on the erza s-class level should have 2nd origin

so naturally, the top 5 of sabertooth should have unlocked their 2nd origins too, it would be weird for them to be at the top without it
Simply put, you were mistaken. Second Origin isn't something all the fighters of the current era have. It's simply a recent discovery of something some mages develop as they train and become truly powerful.

The point of Max vs Natsu was not "all fodder is now on Natsu's level", but rather "a new set of people are now on Natsu's level, and the people that were on Natsu's level before have risen past him." Overall the average level of power hadn't changed much. Competition at the top had just gotten stiffer.

Sabertooth being on top is more a function of the power vacuum Fairy Tail left, and the way in which ranking of guilds had changed and formalized with the Grand Magic Tournament starting up. It does not automatically mean their top members are all on Erza's level or above.

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Originally Posted by SoFarGone View Post
man... I still can't get over how Natsu can beat these guys so easily after a timeskip with lack of training.
It's incredible how much less complaining there would be if Mashima had just done a half chapter 3 month training montage, instead of introducing a problem, and solving it the next chapter for the essentially exact same result as a 3 month training montage.
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Old 2012-08-25, 01:05   Link #9468
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Originally Posted by MAX_COLA_POWER! View Post
Hey guys, I wanna invite you all to the campfire over at OM right now, SO MUCH flames of hate for this chapter over there, I love it^^.
I'm not surprised OM is still a cesspool of negativity, but I am surprised nobody here has a problem with it. This chapter flies in the face of logic and drama.

The whole "we need powerups" subplot after the timeskip is looking like a bigger mistake all the time. If not for that powerup, this might've been an actual fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krono View Post
It's incredible how much less complaining there would be if Mashima had just done a half chapter 3 month training montage, instead of introducing a problem, and solving it the next chapter for the essentially exact same result as a 3 month training montage.
It makes all the difference for the moral of the story. Much like Lance Armstrong being stripped of 7 medals over doping charges, if you follow the news.

Last edited by MechR; 2012-08-25 at 01:15.
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Old 2012-08-25, 02:14   Link #9469
Chris38
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Honestly, to all the people that complain about Natsu receiving some kind of random power up, which obviously hadn't occurred - at least, it wasn't random.

What we are seeing is pretty much the result of awakening Natsu's Second Origin, which gives a quite significant boost to the mages magical abilities.

After all, apart from the raid on ST lobby, we hadn't really seen Natsu in a serious fight, after his Second Origin has been awakened, at least until the last three chapters.

In other words, what we are seeing is pretty much, the results of the awakening of Natsu's second origin, and not some random power up, due to what has happened to Lucy - in other words he was already stronger then Sting and Rouge combined, from the beginning of the fight, it's just that, he decided to not go all out, from the beginning of the fight, because he wanted to check, how powerful Sting and Rouge actually are, which is a quite significant character development for him, in my opinion at least.
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Old 2012-08-25, 02:59   Link #9470
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Originally Posted by MechR View Post
It makes all the difference for the moral of the story.
This ain't sports, second origin ain't drugs, and the value of hard work has never been a theme of Fairy Tail. There's no moral that's being corrupted. It's ridiculous that people complain so vehemantly about second origin and Natsu's team "not training" when the results are identical to having trained, and the only reason they didn't train was a contrived plot wherein Lucy's spirits tricked them into the Spirit World, and didn't tell them about the time difference until after they were ready to leave, despite the fact that they knew Lucy and company intended to be spending that time training.

And if we're going to be comparing things to doping, Laxus, Sting, and Rogue's DS lacrima come much closer. Yet for some reason we don't hear people discounting Laxus's performance on the grounds that he used DS magic that he wouldn't have otherwise had. Or that according to Ivan, Laxus's constitution was weak without the lacrima.
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Old 2012-08-25, 04:42   Link #9471
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
And if we're going to be comparing things to doping, Laxus, Sting, and Rogue's DS lacrima come much closer. Yet for some reason we don't hear people discounting Laxus's performance on the grounds that he used DS magic that he wouldn't have otherwise had. Or that according to Ivan, Laxus's constitution was weak without the lacrima.
To be fair, Laxus's constitution was weak when he was a kid, so now he is powerful even without it... Just look at Cobra, Sting and Rouge did the lacrima make them same level as Laxus? not really. Laxus didn't settle on the power the lacrima gave him and he only made it his foundation on which he risen to his current level.
But I can't deny that it really does look like doping.
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Old 2012-08-25, 05:24   Link #9472
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If you want to see actual doping themes, there are manga much more direct about it (like taking pills for temporary boosts and then get sick). Natsu (and the others) doubled their magical capacity, that makes them pretty much twice as strong as they used to be...and Natsu was strong, he had already fought against several high-class mages.
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Old 2012-08-25, 05:28   Link #9473
DarkSkiper
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
If you want to see actual doping themes, there are manga much more direct about it (like taking pills for temporary boosts and then get sick). Natsu (and the others) doubled their magical capacity, that makes them pretty much twice as strong as they used to be...and Natsu was strong, he had already fought against several high-class mages.
Seeing how Natsu beat Sting and Rouge makes me thing that there is more to the unlocking second origin... And yeah, a permanent power up can't be considered doping, as doping is a temporary thing...
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Old 2012-08-25, 08:57   Link #9474
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Gajeel would have curbstomped them too and he actually trained instead of being trolled by the spirits and boosted by Ultear, so it's not like the ST DS were on a level Natsu could not reach by himself in the first place.

As mentioned above, Second Origin is nothing more than a make-up for the wasted 3 months of training.
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Old 2012-08-25, 09:09   Link #9475
aliasxn
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I think what people are really butthurt about is that it was Natsu and not Gajeel. Which I really don't care but I can understand. Natsu will already get the big bad of this arc, it would've been good damage control on Mashima's part to give this one to Gajeel.
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Old 2012-08-25, 09:30   Link #9476
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Yeah Mashima came up with second origin because he probably preferred to do a comedy side-story instead of a training side-story. I don't see anything else to it and I doubt if it even matters any more.

I'm glad that Sting got stomped. I could've done without his lame story. Not sure why Rogue didn't have his story told as well, unless it was as bad as Sting's.
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Old 2012-08-25, 09:47   Link #9477
DarkSkiper
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Well I guess it was all Stings fault!
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Old 2012-08-25, 11:48   Link #9478
Kafriel
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Rogue is probably the smarter one of the two and doesn't go around bragging about killing dragons, so maybe we'll see his story during the eclipse. Maybe the DS duo will get stranded in the demon realm and keep the dimensions separated, Kingdom Hearts style.
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Old 2012-08-25, 19:55   Link #9479
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Originally Posted by aliasxn View Post
I think what people are really butthurt about is that it was Natsu and not Gajeel. Which I really don't care but I can understand. Natsu will already get the big bad of this arc, it would've been good damage control on Mashima's part to give this one to Gajeel.
I think, if Gajeel was with Natsu and Lucy when they first met Sting and Rogue, he would've formed a grudge with Rogue just like Natsu did with both of them due to them saying they killed their parents, and we all know how Tsundere Gajeel is about Metalicana^^;;.
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Old 2012-08-25, 22:33   Link #9480
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Well at least Gajeel was important for the first half of the fight.

So does this officially make Natsu be over-powered?
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