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Old 2012-08-24, 13:05   Link #261
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Can I ask? Is spreading FUD a bannable offense?
Unless you're giving out dirt for a specific person in this forum, I doubt it. There's no reason to ban someone for just that.
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Old 2012-08-24, 19:54   Link #262
SeijiSensei
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I presume s/he is talking about me. I don't see what FUD I'm spreading. SmartScreen is turned on by default and will send information to Microsoft about everything you install along with your IP address. Whether you think that is a good idea or not is up to you. I'd imagine that most people who buy a new computer with Windows 8 on it will have no idea that this is happening nor will they know how to turn it off.

If it is offered at setup, is the user completely informed about the potential privacy issues involved, or just told that this is something that will help protect his or her computer against malware?

Look, I don't really care what operating system people use as long as they are fully informed about the options and tradeoffs involved. In my experience Microsoft has been less than forthright about potential privacy issues and just keeps adding more and more features that result in your computer checking in with Redmond. Personally I find that objectionable. You may not care. It's your call.

You're welcome to suggest to the moderators that I be banned from AnimeSuki. I doubt you'll get very far with that, but you can give it a try. Or you can give me negative rep. Whatever floats your boat.
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Old 2012-08-24, 21:05   Link #263
monster
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
If it is offered at setup, is the user completely informed about the potential privacy issues involved, or just told that this is something that will help protect his or her computer against malware?
It will tell you that your PC will occasionally send info to Microsoft. There is also link to learn more about express settings and a link for Microsoft's privacy statement.
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Old 2012-08-24, 22:21   Link #264
Random32
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Quote:
Whether you think that is a good idea or not is up to you
You can turn it off.

Quote:
I'd imagine that most people who buy a new computer with Windows 8 on it will have no idea that this is happening nor will they know how to turn it off
So.

On by default means that average joes lose another chunk of privacy without being aware of it. This is bad, but isn't the alternative worse? It's a useful security feature, making it default off means that the average joe that would benefit from the feature most won't use it since they have no clue it exists.
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Old 2012-08-24, 23:07   Link #265
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There's been a recent flood of Windows analyst reviews from the various PC magazines. General sense is, "for tablets? great!" ... for desktops, "not so much" -- vertical surfaces and touchscreens are ergonomic swamps and it will take more mouse clicks to do the same thing.

It really boils down to the "one size doesn't fit all" problem with a UI and the fact that the major applications (Office, Photoshop, software development suites, etc) simply aren't going to be touch-ified. One analyst characterized it as "if you're a *CONSUMER* of content, you're going to be less annoyed with Win8 than you are if you are a *CREATOR* of content".

Sources ... well, this is from thumbing through all the magazines on the bookrack tonight :P
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Old 2012-08-25, 04:33   Link #266
aeriolewinters
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Spoiler for In a parallel Universe:


Basically, proves the point that people just don't want change.
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Old 2012-08-25, 05:42   Link #267
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Spoiler for In a parallel Universe:


Basically, proves the point that people just don't want change.
Change for the sake of change is bad, and sometimes it is what corporations do in order to keep the public interested, not because they have something great to offer. They change the trademark font or style, they change packages, they change whatever, all for no reason other than to provoke a response and have the people keep talking. WHY is what MS is doing a change with a point and not a change for change. I haven't seen anyone actually prove that a Start Screen is that much more beneficial than the Start button.

For the record, I prefer the Start Screen so far, that doesn't mean everyone else should because, frankly, there's no reason strong enough. Example, I like being able to easily customize the Start Screen. Someone who is already customizing the Start Menu another way may not care about that. Someone who doesn't even care about customizing anything won't care either. When stripping the argument of subjective reasoning, the only thing left is what everyone can tell and agree on : "MS was left behind in the fast approaching mobile computing era and is desperately trying to reach the other major companies by forcing a mobile paradigm on its huge desktop userbase in order to create a need for or familiriaty with its mobile platform." I'm afraid most of the changes on 8 boil down to this one truth. Someone might say MS also offers coherence and interoperability but Windows RT is proof that many desktop elements won't be able to move between devices so that point is a bit weak.
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Old 2012-08-25, 07:02   Link #268
felix
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
Change for the sake of change is bad
I disagree it's change for the sake of change. And I'm of the folk that's not terribly enthusiastic about windows 8. Actually unless somehow metro apps aren't backward compatible (which I believe they are) I'll be sticking to win7 for a long long while.

IMO metro is a (necessary) evil/move towards focusing on a society that is technologically aware. If there's something I've learned dealing with technologically illiterate people (like my parents; we've probably all been there =P) is that IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER how "user friendly it is". There's this giant wall, and you either cross it or you don't, and only then is acceptability an issue.

Personally I've only had some small contact with metro though a few ocasional apps I've tried that used the design (github's app for one). While I might not be too enthusiastic about the whole touch and change in the interface, the (what appears to me to be) larger range of artistic freedom with the application can only help with the user experience. Yes, all the metro apps I tried (just so happens) were kind of useless; but the metro part was pretty nice, I find it's design decisions to be forward thinking towards encouraging people to build apps that aren't just collections of the same old knobs; which can only be a good thing. So I'm willing to give some benefit of a doubt to their other design decisions. Having an universal interface isn't really a bad idea anyway.
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Old 2012-08-25, 14:01   Link #269
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
Change for the sake of change is bad, and sometimes it is what corporations do in order to keep the public interested, not because they have something great to offer. They change the trademark font or style, they change packages, they change whatever, all for no reason other than to provoke a response and have the people keep talking. WHY is what MS is doing a change with a point and not a change for change. I haven't seen anyone actually prove that a Start Screen is that much more beneficial than the Start button.
First, I think you meant the Start menu? Windows 8 has two software Start "buttons."

With that out of the way, actual benefits would depend on the user's actual use. The Start screen provides live tiles capability for non-desktop apps, semantic zoom, app grouping and labeling, and a full screen experience which allows more apps and search results to be shown at once.

That said, the reason that makes the Start screen not just change for the sake of change is that it allows Microsoft to provide one interface that would work better with touch and with keyboard + mouse than the Start menu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Actually unless somehow metro apps aren't backward compatible (which I believe they are) I'll be sticking to win7 for a long long while.
What do you mean by backwards compatible? If you mean that they would be installable on earlier versions of Windows, then they won't. If you mean that they would interoperate with their desktop versions that could be installed on earlier versions of Windows, then it depends on the app developer.
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Old 2012-08-26, 13:58   Link #270
felix
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Pretty sure they can be installed and run on previous versions of windows. Would be pretty bad if they didn't, since nobody would make them.
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Old 2012-08-26, 14:04   Link #271
monster
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Pretty sure they can be installed and run on previous versions of windows. Would be pretty bad if they didn't, since nobody would make them.
Non-desktop Windows 8 apps are made using the new Windows runtime, WinRT, which is not available on previous versions of Windows. It is also only generally distributed via the new Windows Store, which is also not available on previous versions of Windows.

Developers can make a desktop app that utilize the Metro design language and can be installed on previous versions of Windows, but it will still be a desktop app and won't have all of the inherent features of a Windows 8 non-desktop app.
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Old 2012-08-26, 14:24   Link #272
felix
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What would be these features be?
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Old 2012-08-26, 16:08   Link #273
monster
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
What would be these features be?
Among other things:

- Paid apps can be installed on up to 5 Windows 8/RT devices at any one time.
- ARM-compiled apps can be installed on Windows RT devices.
- Windows Store manages discovery, trial, purchase, installation, and update.
- It is capable of syncing certain app settings and in-app purchase across Windows 8/RT devices.
- It is persistent across PC refresh, a new Windows 8 feature.
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Old 2012-08-26, 16:18   Link #274
felix
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So nothing that's even worth remembering.

The microsoft managing updates reminds me of a really stupid incident recently where a game didn't patch a very nasty save bug because the amount microsoft asked for to pass the update was just not worth it. Now ain't that awesome for us consumers?
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Old 2012-08-26, 16:25   Link #275
monster
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
So nothing that's even worth remembering.
That depends on the user.
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Old 2012-08-26, 16:33   Link #276
felix
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I guess.

I'm a little hard pressed to think of who "needs" all those exclusive features. Seems like it's just another shitty control idiocracy (like themes in windows xp, various security nonsense in vista, etc).

Also I heard something about microsoft having problems with the "metro" name.
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Old 2012-08-26, 16:42   Link #277
monster
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
I guess.

I'm a little hard pressed to think of who "needs" all those exclusive features. Seems like it's just another shitty control idiocracy (like themes in windows xp, various security nonsense in vista, etc).
These days, it's less about needs and more about wants.

The features I listed add convenience in some form or another. And if the popularity of the iPad is any indication, full control is not high on everybody's priority compared to the convenience of using the device.

Of course, not everybody feels the same way, and that's okay.
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Old 2012-08-26, 20:30   Link #278
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Among other things:

- Paid apps can be installed on up to 5 Windows 8/RT devices at any one time.
- ARM-compiled apps can be installed on Windows RT devices.
- Windows Store manages discovery, trial, purchase, installation, and update.
- It is capable of syncing certain app settings and in-app purchase across Windows 8/RT devices.
- It is persistent across PC refresh, a new Windows 8 feature.
It sounds like they took Apple's current implementation of the app stores for iOS and OS X, and expanded on the concept. If you're only using one device then these features may not matter, but if you're juggling multiple devices, these features sound like they'd be quite nice. Hopefully Apple will do something similar over the coming years...
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Old 2012-08-27, 10:08   Link #279
SeijiSensei
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It's all about "walled gardens" these days, and the consequent lock-in they provide. Sure they may be convenient for consumers who only care about simplicity, but the real motive for creating AppStores and the like is to restrict competition though a form of vertical integration.
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Old 2012-08-27, 10:22   Link #280
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
It's all about "walled gardens" these days, and the consequent lock-in they provide. Sure they may be convenient for consumers who only care about simplicity, but the real motive for creating AppStores and the like is to restrict competition though a form of vertical integration.
While that may be one motive, I don't think that it's the only one. Much of Apple's philosophy is with the idea that "if you want something done right, do it yourself." To a certain degree, Windows, Android, and other operating systems that relied on someone else to produce the hardware and other bits were somewhat restricted because the visions of the people designing the operating system didn't necessarily match up with the visions of people designing the software or hardware. That's workable up to a point, but it takes a unified vision to advance further. Apple has often received praise for the good user experience that their products offer, and I suspect that it arises in part from their vertical integration. (It helps that their overall company culture is dedicated to it, as well.)
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