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Old 2012-08-27, 00:40   Link #4141
aeriolewinters
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I don't remember Kira seeing Fllay through Lacus...
There's this .gif that I lost, it's from the aftermath of the failed rescue attempt at Fllay.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:44   Link #4142
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
There's this .gif that I lost, it's from the aftermath of the failed rescue attempt at Fllay.
To add on, it's when Kira faints after the battle against the 3 druggies after the Mendal Colony gun fight (where he finds out he's the ultimate coordinator). It should be the episode where Kira' ends up crying on Lacus' lap.

Edit: I like the KiraxLacus pairing even if it is a bit too conservative for my tastes. Though being conservative surely doesn't mean that they don't love each other. It's pretty stupid to measure an abstract concept through physical actions.
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Old 2012-08-27, 00:51   Link #4143
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
My point wasn't about the development (or the lack thereof in some cases), my point is that they picked a shit way of showing it and that hurts the development itself.
And my point is you seem to be ignoring what they showed.
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I wasn't comparing the two couples, so don't fucking put words in my mouth.
When did I say you did?.
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I was pointing out that they actually gave a halfassed attempt at trying to depict it properly
Right, and I (I repeat: I) made the comparison that Kira and Lacus also had a depiction of their relationship developing.

Again, my point is that you keep saying that their depiction is bad while seemingly ignoring what they actually depict.
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Old 2012-08-27, 01:02   Link #4144
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Again, my point is that you keep saying that their depiction is bad while seemingly ignoring what they actually depict.
And his point is what they actually depict is bad. I'm inclined to agree, given just how much their interactions were depicted in a series of vacuums rather than taken as a whole, and even if you ignore that it feels more like trying to build a relationship off of instant attraction and emotional weaknesses rather than legitimate maturing feelings.
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Old 2012-08-27, 01:14   Link #4145
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
And his point is what they actually depict is bad. I'm inclined to agree,
And I'm inclined to disagree when I think he's not looking at the whole picture.
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given just how much their interactions were depicted in a series of vacuums rather than taken as a whole, and even if you ignore that it feels more like trying to build a relationship off of instant attraction and emotional weaknesses rather than legitimate maturing feelings.
Well, it's a good thing they're not married yet. It gives them a chance to legitimately let their feelings mature.
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Old 2012-08-27, 01:20   Link #4146
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
And I'm inclined to disagree when I think he's not looking at the whole picture.
Oh good. I'm inclined to disagree when I think you're not looking at the whole picture.

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Well, it's a good thing they're not married yet. It gives them a chance to legitimately let their feelings mature.
That's the problem: They shouldn't need to wait until their married for feelings to mature. The series should have already done that instead of playing what was more like a game of "Hi/Bye" than "let's build a relationship."
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Old 2012-08-27, 01:28   Link #4147
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Oh good. I'm inclined to disagree when I think you're not looking at the whole picture.
You're welcome to show me what I'm missing.
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That's the problem: They shouldn't need to wait until their married for feelings to mature. The series should have already done that instead of playing what was more like a game of "Hi/Bye" than "let's build a relationship."
A relationship isn't just something you build once and you're done. It's something you work on and develop even after you're married. Part of that working out is your feelings for each other.
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Old 2012-08-27, 01:31   Link #4148
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
A relationship isn't just something you build once and you're done. It's something you work on and develop even after you're married. Part of that working out is your feelings for each other.
Except that's NOT. HAPPENING. With these two.
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Old 2012-08-27, 01:36   Link #4149
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Except that's NOT. HAPPENING. With these two.
I would say it is happening, just at a slower pace than most people would care for.
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Old 2012-08-27, 01:41   Link #4150
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0 MPH is not a slower fucking pace! It's not even a pace at all, it's NOTHING. It's one moment they're not a couple and the next they are AND THEY'RE STILL DOING NOTHING. And they expect people to eat this shit up and the Japanese do! It fucking tells people it's alright to not develop relationships they have no fucking use for in the stories they write!

I don't care that there's a timeskip that gives Kira and Lacus two years to "develop" a relationship, if the people don't see it happening then it's not fucking development, is it? It's fan pandering is what it is!
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Old 2012-08-27, 02:00   Link #4151
monster
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0 MPH is not a slower fucking pace! It's not even a pace at all, it's NOTHING. It's one moment they're not a couple and the next they are AND THEY'RE STILL DOING NOTHING.
One moment, they're not a couple, but over time they found reasons to care for each other and be with each other. That's not nothing.
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I don't care that there's a timeskip that gives Kira and Lacus two years to "develop" a relationship, if the people don't see it happening then it's not fucking development, is it? It's fan pandering is what it is!
It's not like after the time skip, they're married and have kids. They haven't even kissed on screen yet; that would be fan pandering.
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Old 2012-08-27, 02:02   Link #4152
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They don't need to, it's already considered the "perfect couple" by Japanese standards (the only ones that count) so yes, it's fucking fan pandering.
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Old 2012-08-27, 02:19   Link #4153
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Okay, even if we say it was, it still doesn't negate how they got to be where they are.
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Old 2012-08-27, 02:27   Link #4154
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Makes me wonder which generation they're trying to pander to since I'm sure many younger Japanese wouldn't really like to be in such a relationship as emotionless and detached as that.

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You missed my point (and some of yours don't even make sense). My point is that it was handled really fucking badly as far as depictions go. It's made especially jarring given how we get better relationship development depictions from practically everyone fucking else, including Kira!



Well with Aisha dead, it's not really a relationship anymore, is it? And where the hell is this bit about Mu being suicidal coming from?



Shinn and Luna at least have the excuse of them entering the relationship as bonding over a really hard time. Which is still diluted to fuck when you consider that the really hard time was Shinn killing her little sister and her crush for being traitors. That said, it's definitely not what you'd call a healthy relationship, though they seem to stabilize after finding out that Meyrin was indeed alive and well.
Well, they didn't stabilize right away considering that Lunamaria decided to fight with Shinn still than at the last second decided she didn't want Shinn and Athrun to kill each other after all... Which almost got her killed.

At least Shinn matured out of that by the end and let go of his hate and they stayed a couple after everything had settled down.

There's also the Shinn and Lunamaria friendship since they knew each other before Destiny. Than when Shinn was extremely jealous when Athrun got the Savior and Lunamaria wanted to see his cool Red Gundam and not Shinn's Gundam. Couldn't help laughing at that scene since Athrun was oblivious and being a gentleman while Shinn was angry but the look on his face made it seem like he didn't even know why he was angry over this.
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Old 2012-08-27, 02:45   Link #4155
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Andrew isn't healthy, he still hasn't moved on from Aisha. Mwu also is way too suicidal to consider that healthy.
Regarding Andrew: From your own words, it's not a relationship anymore when one of the couple dies .

Regarding Mu: Seriously, if putting your life on the line to (directly) protect the one you love from death itself is not “healthy”, I don’t wanna know what you consider as “healthy relationship”.
Note: Mu has gone through a lot of dangerous situations because he’s a soldier on the frontline of war. It’s not like he’s looking for it or suicidal .


As for Kiracus realtionship, let’s just count the development points shall we :
Spoiler for Kiracus development:
The points are all from me. Please take it with a grain of salt. Don’t be so serious.
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Old 2012-08-27, 04:06   Link #4156
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Regarding Andrew: From your own words, it's not a relationship anymore when one of the couple dies .

Regarding Mu: Seriously, if putting your life on the line to (directly) protect the one you love from death itself is not “healthy”, I don’t wanna know what you consider as “healthy relationship”.
Note: Mu has gone through a lot of dangerous situations because he’s a soldier on the frontline of war. It’s not like he’s looking for it or suicidal .
Did he know about how Murrue's last loved one/boyfriend died? I think he did? In that case, Mwu should KNOW that trying to do anything akin to how Murrue's last boyfriend died is a definite no-no (seeing as Murrue is still hurting and traumatized from it). Yeah, they're in the military and accidents happen, but actively going in the way of a photon beam when it's a lost cause is probably the stupidest thing to do, seeing how he forced Murrue to see him die right in front of her eyes.


Quote:
As for Kiracus realtionship, let’s just count the development points shall we :
Spoiler for Kiracus development:
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Old 2012-08-27, 04:44   Link #4157
monster
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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Did he know about how Murrue's last loved one/boyfriend died? I think he did? In that case, Mwu should KNOW that trying to do anything akin to how Murrue's last boyfriend died is a definite no-no (seeing as Murrue is still hurting and traumatized from it). Yeah, they're in the military and accidents happen, but actively going in the way of a photon beam when it's a lost cause is probably the stupidest thing to do, seeing how he forced Murrue to see him die right in front of her eyes.
So instead you want Mu to let Murrue and the Archangel crew just die in front of him?
Spoiler for Kiracus development:
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Old 2012-08-27, 05:50   Link #4158
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Wow, someone here is actually not bright enough to take my half-assed “chronological romantic development list” seriously. Did you not read what I wrote? I said, “take it with a grain of salt”. Or maybe you don’t know what that means?
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Did he know about how Murrue's last loved one/boyfriend died? I think he did? In that case, Mwu should KNOW that trying to do anything akin to how Murrue's last boyfriend died is a definite no-no (seeing as Murrue is still hurting and traumatized from it). Yeah, they're in the military and accidents happen, but actively going in the way of a photon beam when it's a lost cause is probably the stupidest thing to do, seeing how he forced Murrue to see him die right in front of her eyes.
My answer is exactly the same with monster. Do you want Mwu to let Murrue and all Archangel’s crew to be blasted to their deaths just so that “Mwu doesn’t cause further trauma to Murrue”? That is idiotic coz: (1) Mu didn’t have a choice except to protect her since he loves Murrue so much; (2) a traumatized lover with a chance of getting better is A LOT better than a vaporized lover.



I don’t even have to respond to all your reply coz most of it miss my point spectacularly. Also, I see that monster is already kind enough to respond to all your reply to me (thanx very much, monster). So, I’ll just say this to you:

I make the “development list” just to focus on the “love points” that both Kira & Lacus get for each interaction they get. Once again, I didn’t make the list to stress or justify any events that I wrote coz my focus is the “romantic” interactions and “love points” (the bolded parts). The events that I wrote there, are plainly what was presented in the anime. Why do you even have to argue that? Do you also want to deny the things that actually happens in SEED? The “love points” itself is my own concept, but I already told you that it’s just for the lulz.

Note: Just so you know, I’m not interested in “shipping wars” in SEED. I just happened to wrote about Kira & Lacus’ romantic development. It doesn’t mean I’m in “Team Lacus”. Don’t you get it?
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Old 2012-08-27, 06:42   Link #4159
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Indeed, had Fllay lived Kira and her would have hooked back up together. It's because she died that Lacus was taken up by Kira. Good thing they avoided that issue with Shinn by making him see Stella has his dead sister and not a lover so even if she lives it doesn't change his relationship with Lunamaria.
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Old 2012-08-27, 09:28   Link #4160
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Indeed, had Fllay lived Kira and her would have hooked back up together. It's because she died that Lacus was taken up by Kira. Good thing they avoided that issue with Shinn by making him see Stella has his dead sister and not a lover so even if she lives it doesn't change his relationship with Lunamaria.
Had Fllay lived, Kira would still be with Lacus. He rejected her with time to spare before she got kidnapped by Rau Lecruset.
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