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Old 2012-08-28, 21:55   Link #1
james0246
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US Elections 2012 Part II: The Conventions, Debates and Election results

This thread is dedicated to discussion of the upcoming US Presidential, Gubernatorial and Congressional election in November 2012. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the various candidates, their positions, and the various other positions being voted on across the country. All news and discussion of the upcoming election will be placed in this thread, and once the results are in a possible new thread dedicated to the 113th Congress could be made.

The usual forum rules apply (be considerate of others and their opinions, no flaming or cyclical posting, try and provide sources when possible, etc), and try not to get too caught up in the News coverage of the elections (i.e., we all know the mainstream media is inherently biased (toward the right and the left), so try not to create too much discussion based on how bad you perceive the individual networks are skewing the various elections). To clarify further, you can post any clips or excerpts you feel will add to this thread (as so long as they are actual news clips and not simply talking heads), but do not get too focused on the source of the information (which is partially irrelevant to the discussion topic)...

Former Governor Mitt Romney is the Official Republican nominee for the 2012 Presidential cycle.

President Barack Obama is the Official Democratic nominee for the 2012 Presidential cycle.

Multiple 3rd party candidates will be announced as the election approaches.

11 States and 2 territories will have Gubernatorial elections. 33 Senatorial Elections will take place, and all 435 Representative seats are up for election. And, of course, a variety of state and local elections will take place.

----

Watching Chris Christie's speech. Easily the best speech at the convention so far. This is sophistry and rhetoric at its best (I haven't seen a speech this good from a Republican since Bush's reelection). So disingenuous and blatantly false, but wonderfully presented rhetoric from a speaker with great charisma. (Sadly, the speech is a complete rip off of Obama's 2004 and 2008 convention speeches.)

Edit: Ann Romney's speech was okay. A little boring, but some of the anecdotes were good. Too bad she seems so insincere and fake at times.

Last edited by james0246; 2012-09-06 at 01:18.
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Old 2012-08-28, 22:44   Link #2
Urzu 7
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An attendee at the RNC threw nuts at a black camera woman and said "This is how we feed animals".

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...amerawoman.php

If you don't know, people on the right will say "Don't feed the animals" when talking about how they oppose food stamps for people, and with most people on food stamps being black, well, we know then just how offensive it is when they are calling black people animals.

The GOP is the official party for bigots and racists and all sorts of people who are hateful and intolerant.
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Old 2012-08-28, 23:03   Link #3
Ledgem
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An attendee at the RNC threw nuts at a black camera woman and said "This is how we feed animals".

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...amerawoman.php

If you don't know, people on the right will say "Don't feed the animals" when talking about how they oppose food stamps for people, and with most people on food stamps being black, well, we know then just how offensive it is when they are calling black people animals.

The GOP is the official party for bigots and racists and all sorts of people who are hateful and intolerant.
I don't think that it's fair to categorize an entire party just because of one bigot.

But the Republican party does seem to have an awful lot of bigots amongst its ranks today. It's a real shame - based on the general values that they used to talk about (before the whole defining marriage and abortion stuff), it sounds like they were very practical and would have had a lot to offer society. I probably would have been a Republican if I had been born 40-60 years ago. Today they come off as a bunch of social extremists ("the American Taliban") and liars when it comes to things like government size and budget.

I'm terribly disappointed that Ron Paul didn't win the nomination. I feel that would have marked a turn-around for the GOP, and a return to what their core values originally were.
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Old 2012-08-28, 23:24   Link #4
Urzu 7
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I don't think that it's fair to categorize an entire party just because of one bigot.

But the Republican party does seem to have an awful lot of bigots amongst its ranks today. It's a real shame - based on the general values that they used to talk about (before the whole defining marriage and abortion stuff), it sounds like they were very practical and would have had a lot to offer society. I probably would have been a Republican if I had been born 40-60 years ago. Today they come off as a bunch of social extremists ("the American Taliban") and liars when it comes to things like government size and budget.

I'm terribly disappointed that Ron Paul didn't win the nomination. I feel that would have marked a turn-around for the GOP, and a return to what their core values originally were.
I'm not saying there are a lot of bigots on the right because of one guy. I'm aware that with the GOP supporters these days, there are a lot of bigots, whether it be racists or anti-gay bigots.
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Old 2012-08-28, 23:35   Link #5
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I might have actually considered Huntsman but that notion is in some alternative universe now. These guys are failures at foreign policy and they're failures at domestic policy -- they're here to loot for their masters what is left of the people's money and they're going to break the means for the people to recreate it.

And yeah, I don't think "American Taliban" is an exaggeration because I think the violence is just under the covers and ready to rip.
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Old 2012-08-28, 23:48   Link #6
Urzu 7
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And yeah, I don't think "American Taliban" is an exaggeration because I think the violence is just under the covers and ready to rip.
I know what you mean and it is frightening. I'm afraid of the people on the right sending this nation into a military police state someday, and now, thanks to GOP officials, we have things like that whole NDAA thing and the bill that allows drone strikes on U.S. soil. But yeah, let's all freak out at Obama for his really big, scary government from 'Obamacare'...
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Old 2012-08-29, 03:13   Link #7
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The two parties have pretty much become more ideologically defined over the past few decades. Before you had Liberal Northeastern Republicans and Conservative Southern Democrats. Now you pretty much know what the party stands for just from their names. Even though some would say they are quite similar, there are still vast differences between them.

Still to be quite honest, next to Huntsman, Romney was the most palatable candidate on this year's crop during the Primaries. I just can't believe he chose Ryan as his VP pick though. u-u
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Old 2012-08-29, 04:14   Link #8
Irenicus
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Still to be quite honest, next to Huntsman, Romney was the most palatable candidate on this year's crop during the Primaries. I just can't believe he chose Ryan as his VP pick though. u-u
He was actually quite popular as a potential VP in 2008, viewed as a moderate, pro-business candidate with a "solid" credential as a Republican governor of a Democratic state who implemented a major health care reform in Massachusetts. McCain choice of Sarah Palin over him and other candidates was widely derided.

Although nowadays many Massachusetts citizens express dissatisfaction with his health care law, at the time the "moderate" pundits largely praised it as an example of bipartisanship. Moreover, his private wealth and history were not of particular interest.

Not unlike McCain, who was also popular with a broad spectrum of pundits prior to his becoming a Presidential Candidate, he started to lose his bipartisan "aura" as he came ahead. Though while part of this can be blamed on the natural transition towards a competitive race and a much more thorough media scrutiny, much of it really is Romney and his team's fault. He "exposed" himself this time around so to speak, flip-flopping around various wedge issues, turned sharply conservative socially, disowned his own health care legacy, refused a request for release of information which his opponent had complied and more, and let himself be portrayed, often through his own gaffes, as a silver spoon, no principles empty suit as opposed to a "competent CEO" (not that I'm particularly fond of CEOs) image he was once perceived as.

The official Republican script was supposed to be about the economy, the economy, and the economy, and CEO Romney was supposed to guide America Inc. out of its redline, yet "strangely," with little need for the Democrats to even act, the Grand Old Party, bogged down by its fanatical Tea Party wing, constantly shoved social issues into the forefront, into firestorms of controversy after controversy.

I say let them burn.
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Old 2012-08-29, 05:33   Link #9
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I say let them burn.
I'd like em to burn too, but what if they, uh, win?
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Old 2012-08-29, 05:33   Link #10
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I probably would have been a Republican if I had been born 40-60 years ago. Today they come off as a bunch of social extremists ("the American Taliban") and liars when it comes to things like government size and budget.
Hell, when I was a kid I used to see myself as more of a Republican. Sometime between the end of Elementary School (1997) and the beginning of High School (2000) they made this weird shift in policies and went to hell. I think they hated Clinton so much they may have made a pact with Satan.

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I'd like em to burn too, but what if they, uh, win?
Then may God have mercy on us all?
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Old 2012-08-29, 05:55   Link #11
Irenicus
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone
I'd like em to burn too, but what if they, uh, win?
My generation gives up on America. Life goes on, until it does not. A little worse for the wear if you're homosexual or feminist or something and were expecting (ha!) equality.

Or the economy explodes ten years down the road (bad policies take time to blow up), they really start up that War in Iran of theirs, and we're all screwed.

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Then may God have mercy on us all?
God hates facts.
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Old 2012-08-29, 06:12   Link #12
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From what I've seen - in terms of clips and what-not -- the RNC is looking like a Fascist Convention, much like many of the other Republican conventions these past few years.
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Old 2012-08-29, 06:35   Link #13
GDB
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My generation gives up on America. Life goes on, until it does not.
Which, if they win, may be sooner rather than later.
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Old 2012-08-29, 08:11   Link #14
james0246
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I'd like em to burn too, but what if they, uh, win?
The current Republican Party has to get into power. That is why they are forcibly stacking the deck in their favor with all this voter registration hoopla. They need to get into power for the simple reason that by 2020 the parties main base will be gone. While older people can still definitely be scared into submission, the Republican Party will soon have to deal with an older generation that has always been Democrats. And, with the white vote swiftly becoming a minority vote, the Republicans will have to deal with a country composed of a former minority that is almost completely Democratic.

The Republicans need to be in power now because it is quickly getting to the point where they will have no way to get into power again. This is the only time (the next 8 years) that they can put into place any of the laws they need to create what they feel to be an ideal environment for their businesses and the protection of their wealth and their families.

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From what I've seen - in terms of clips and what-not -- the RNC is looking like a Fascist Convention, much like many of the other Republican conventions these past few years.
Previous conventions have not been this bad (not for a long while). The exclusiveness of this conventions seems very similar to the extreme exclusive Goldwater convention of 1964. The Party is now being defined more by what they are not rather that what they are or can be. It's sad, but an obvious doubling down on their message of extreme conservatism in the face of obvious and unstoppable progress/change. Fear controls the Party, and it is destroying everything the GOP once stood for.
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Old 2012-08-29, 08:19   Link #15
Targus
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I don't think that it's fair to categorize an entire party just because of one bigot.

But the Republican party does seem to have an awful lot of bigots amongst its ranks today. It's a real shame - based on the general values that they used to talk about (before the whole defining marriage and abortion stuff), it sounds like they were very practical and would have had a lot to offer society. I probably would have been a Republican if I had been born 40-60 years ago. Today they come off as a bunch of social extremists ("the American Taliban") and liars when it comes to things like government size and budget.

I'm terribly disappointed that Ron Paul didn't win the nomination. I feel that would have marked a turn-around for the GOP, and a return to what their core values originally were.
I'd have preferred Paul to win the nominations. But I prefer 4 more years with Obama 1000 times over 4 years with either Paul or Romney. Romney's a flighty little b*tch through and through and his VP has to be a time traveler from the past cuz of his backward-ass views on women's rights, homosexuality, abortion and what have you. He ain't getting my vote.

If it was Paul, he wouldn't have had my vote cuz he wanted to economically isolate the US from the rest of the world in withdrawing from the WTO and enacting a more extreme version of the free market in the US than even Romney's planning to. You seem like an educated person in economics so I trust you would know what that means.
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Old 2012-08-29, 08:24   Link #16
GDB
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...and his VP has to be a time traveler from the past cuz of his backward-ass views on women's rights, homosexuality, abortion and what have you.
He's actually rather progressive (by GOP standards) in regards to homosexuality. He actually understands it isn't a choice, and that's how some people are born. He still doesn't believe they should be able to get married, but at least he doesn't condemn them as making a satanic choice.
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Old 2012-08-29, 08:29   Link #17
Targus
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He's actually rather progressive (by GOP standards) in regards to homosexuality. He actually understands it isn't a choice, and that's how some people are born. He still doesn't believe they should be able to get married, but at least he doesn't condemn them as making a satanic choice.
That actually makes it worse. He understands it's not a choice but still doesn't allow them the same rights as heteros? I'm amazed you don't see the hypocrisy.
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Old 2012-08-29, 09:22   Link #18
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Where did I say that? I'm merely pointing out that he isn't completely stupid in regards to homosexuality like 99% of the GOP is. At this point I didn't think I needed to point out every hypocrisy that the GOP spouts or is in offense of. I'd have to quote almost everything!
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:16   Link #19
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Hell, when I was a kid I used to see myself as more of a Republican. Sometime between the end of Elementary School (1997) and the beginning of High School (2000) they made this weird shift in policies and went to hell. I think they hated Clinton so much they may have made a pact with
The New York Times had a brilliantly written intro to an article about the platform updates. They talk about "one party" stating to be inclusive of people whose primary language is not English, who wants to be more energy-efficient via public transport, and who recognizes differences of opinion over abortion, and then "another party" defining English as the only language, wanting to put the Ten Commandments out in public, and saying that abortion is never permissible. The shocker line? The first party isn't the Democratic party - it's the Republican party from about 30 years ago, right before Reagan was elected. Amazing.

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You seem like an educated person in economics so I trust you would know what that means.
I am an educated person (at least based on the number of degrees I have) but I readily admit that I don't know much about economics beyond basic theory. The appeal of Ron Paul to me wasn't his economic plan, but his integrity, honesty, the fact that I don't think he ever talked about "beating Obama" when he made his points (he made the points on their own merit, based on what he felt would be best for the country - all the other GOP nominees were practically falling over themselves to talk about "beating Obama" in every other sentence), and the fact that he recognized that the Presidency (and government positions) do not exist for those officials to push their social agendas and views on everyone else. That last one is frighteningly absent in many politicians today.
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:16   Link #20
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I have to agreed with GDB about this, Ryan isnt stupid about Homosexual ISSUES but he is still going to follow the GOP way of thinking about that. But I look at it alittle bit and I am shocking to see so many people wants Romney as President, with they call him a true leader for this country. SMH

Obama wasnt perfect and he had a divided Congress to deal with (Even with Romney, it will be the same problem if Dems holds on to the Senate but if GOP is Majority in the Senate, oh boy) but he did what he could have done as president but Romney a true leader for this country, please.

Quote:
The New York Times had a brilliantly written intro to an article about the platform updates. They talk about "one party" stating to be inclusive of people whose primary language is not English, who wants to be more energy-efficient via public transport, and who recognizes differences of opinion over abortion, and then "another party" defining English as the only language, wanting to put the Ten Commandments out in public, and saying that abortion is never permissible. The shocker line? The first party isn't the Democratic party - it's the Republican party from about 30 years ago, right before Reagan was elected. Amazing.
I read that, I cant see how they changed so much from then to now. I dont what happen to them, maybe it was the Tea Party or something else. Heck, I was looking at that platform they had yesterday about bring more blacks to GOP and I wonder "Yall had them for many, many years ago so why did yall lose them"? At the end of the day, I dont Romney isnt going to get those minority votes and if Romney doesnt get that Indy vote to swing to his favor, then he has problem.
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