AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Sword Art Online

View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 08
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 56 38.62%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 52 35.86%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 24 16.55%
7 out of 10: Good... 9 6.21%
6 out of 10: Average... 1 0.69%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 1 0.69%
4 out of 10: Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10: Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 2 1.38%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-08-29, 05:07   Link #401
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Or, you know, turn off the auto-refuse.
While I don't know if it's NOT possible, moving a sleeping player's finger over the 'yes' button is different than having said sleeping player open a menu and scroll through it. I'm not even sure how people open menus in this game.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 05:32   Link #402
chaos_alfa
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
While I don't know if it's NOT possible, moving a sleeping player's finger over the 'yes' button is different than having said sleeping player open a menu and scroll through it. I'm not even sure how people open menus in this game.
By making a certain hand gesture.
chaos_alfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 05:35   Link #403
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 29
I.E. REALLY hard for a third party to do.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 11:39   Link #404
Iron Maw
~Undying Loyality~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
No one chooses to be born on Earth either. You just end up here and you can either find your own happiness or die. It's your own choice.
But with the Earth as one matures you come to the understanding that without it, you couldn't even exist to begin with. This not case with SAO since no one is native or born here. The people in the game all have prior knowledge of this and it's because of that most can't truly be happy here even if a living can be made.

Quote:
What you seem to be missing is the fact that SAO is only particularly dangerous when you're trying to get out. If there's anything sadistic about it, that's it. You can either risk your life with the hope of getting out, or stop trying to get out at all and live a peaceful if somewhat boring life there. This is the choice that every person trapped in there is forced to make. Do I value my old life enough to risk my current life? Based on the conversation in this episode, it seems that increasingly people are choosing not to risk their lives. Which means that they consider living there a valid option.
There really isn't a choice here though, merely conditions set by Kayaba. The people who are staying in SAO aren't doing it out love for it (at least nobody like that has appeared yet), but rather they see no other way due to the fear of death. If Kayaba suddenly showed up now and allowed the players who decided to stay a way back, do you think they would still stick by that choice? Are they truly attached to SAO that would prefer that to their previous lives instead simply making the best out of a bad situation?

Quote:
Is it "settling for less"? Sure, why not. We don't know everyone's circumstances, but we can grant this assumption without changing anything. But "settling for less" isn't the mark of being imprisoned or undergoing a trial, it's just another part of living. I'd argue that every single one of us "settles for less" every single day. You don't always get the person you love most, you don't always get the job you want, you can't afford to eat the best food every day. People go through that all the time.
I don't think it's quite the same thing here. In SAO choosing to stay means giving up the life you rightfully had, regardless of it's situation. Compared to something like not getting your "first love" or "dream job" those things were never promised or yours to start. People in SAO had a life before the game and it was simply taken away and forcibly replaced a cage. A sweet smelling cage designed to mimic their former lives at a basic level, by still a cage with death being the bars.

Quote:
...and since I know someone's going to mention PK, how exactly is that different from murder in real life? It's not different at all. Lock your doors and don't fall asleep in the middle of the street and you should be fine. The entire mystery arc was about Kirito and Asuna freaking out over the rules possibly being broken, to the point where they considered it more important than furthering the escape attempt, which tells you exactly how much reassurance the rules normally provide.
Indeed, however is this really a surprise? The rules are the only real protection the inhabitants have in the game. Without them climbing Aincrad would be almost impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
On the subject of living in SAO, the novels actually address this issue in several of the chapters after the current story arc. Patience, and all will be revealed.
Isn't this what the show has been doing since ep 3? Well I'm looking forward to all the same as long as their plot advancement too.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2012-08-29 at 11:55.
Iron Maw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 12:08   Link #405
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
But with the Earth as one matures you come to the understanding that without it, you couldn't even exist to begin with. This not case with SAO since no one is native or born here. The people in the game all have prior knowledge of this and it's because of that most can't truly be happy here even if a living can be made.
Religion exists precisely because most people cannot come to an understanding with their existence. People come up with untestable spiritual "reasons" for their existence and put all their faith in them precisely because they cannot accept that they simply exist against their will. Regardless of whether or not one or more of these religions happens to be true, the human psychological need to discover "purpose" is well documented.

Quote:
There really isn't a choice here though, merely conditions set by Kayaba. The people who are staying in SAO aren't doing it out love for it (at least nobody like that has appeared yet), but rather they see no other way due to the fear of death. If Kayaba suddenly showed up now and allowed the players who decided to stay a way back, do you think they would still stick by that choice? Are they truly attached to SAO that would prefer that to their previous lives instead simply making the best out of a bad situation?
Kayaba is playing God. Surely he has no right to play God, but that's what he's doing. He created a world, forced people to live in it, and they have no choice but to accept the rules he's placed on them. IE: He's God, in this little microcosm of the world. People are always forced to accept the world as it is. There have never been any exceptions, ever.

Quote:
I don't think it's quite the same thing here. In SAO choosing to stay means giving up the life you rightfully had, regardless of it's situation. Compared to something like not getting your "first love" or "dream job" those things were never promised or yours to start. People in SAO had a life before the game and it was simply taken away and forcibly replaced a cage. A sweet smelling cage designed to mimic their former lives at a basic level, by still a cage with death being the bars.
Sometimes your wife divorces you and you lose your family. Sometimes your friends move away and you can't contact them. Sometimes you already have your dream job but get fired because the economy changes. And then you lose your house because you can't pay the bills. Your life gets taken away against your will all the time. I won't say you shouldn't fight for it to the best of your abilities, but regardless of whether you succeed or not the fact that you had to fight to keep what you already had is also a part of life. I really don't understand where this line of reasoning is coming from.

Quote:
Indeed, however is this really a surprise? The rules are the only real protection the inhabitants have in the game. Without them climbing Aincrad would be almost impossible.
No, it is absolutely not a surprise, and I never meant to imply it was.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 13:59   Link #406
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I.E. REALLY hard for a third party to do.
It's just a pinch and pulling down. Nothing to it.

Klein and Kirito do it in ep1, when trying to logout. I don't think the move even has to be that exaggerated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
But with the Earth as one matures you come to the understanding that without it, you couldn't even exist to begin with. This not case with SAO since no one is native or born here. The people in the game all have prior knowledge of this and it's because of that most can't truly be happy here even if a living can be made.



There really isn't a choice here though, merely conditions set by Kayaba. The people who are staying in SAO aren't doing it out love for it (at least nobody like that has appeared yet), but rather they see no other way due to the fear of death. If Kayaba suddenly showed up now and allowed the players who decided to stay a way back, do you think they would still stick by that choice? Are they truly attached to SAO that would prefer that to their previous lives instead simply making the best out of a bad situation?



I don't think it's quite the same thing here. In SAO choosing to stay means giving up the life you rightfully had, regardless of it's situation. Compared to something like not getting your "first love" or "dream job" those things were never promised or yours to start. People in SAO had a life before the game and it was simply taken away and forcibly replaced a cage. A sweet smelling cage designed to mimic their former lives at a basic level, by still a cage with death being the bars.
I don't think we can argue that SAO isn't a prison into which the players have been unjustly thrown. The point was, it's not a particularly hellish or sadistic one.

Quote:
Indeed, however is this really a surprise? The rules are the only real protection the inhabitants have in the game. Without them climbing Aincrad would be almost impossible.
Not really. They'd just have to watch each other and sleep in shifts.

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2012-08-29 at 16:09.
Anh_Minh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 14:04   Link #407
Haak
Haters Gonna Hate
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I agree with the notion that Kawahara may just be better at designing MMOs than writing about them. That's the difference between he and someone like Hosoda Mamoru, who's great at both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
I disagree that Hosoda Mamoru is great at both his MMO aspect (in Summer Wars at least) didn't felt like a real game, let alone something that I would like to play. SAO in that respect is the complete opposite. Hosoda and Kawahara need to team up and create something together. It would probably blow my mind away.
I know that this discussion happened over a fortnight ago but allow me to share my thoughts on this comparison.

When we compare The World of Oz (Summer Wars) to Sword Art Online then I think we’re talking apples and oranges because those two worlds had totally different aims to begin with.

The appeal of The World of Oz is in its sentimentality. Hosoda aimed Oz to be tribute to the World Wide Web and wanted to portray its amazing ability to connect people from around the world and transcend borders and barriers. To achieve this Hosoda aimed Oz to excel in communication, hence why it bares so much similarity to social networking sites.

In contrast, the appeal of Sword Art Online is in its escapism. Kawahara is more interested in the gaming community rather than the whole internet and so Kawahara aims Sword Art Online to be every gamer’s wet dream. To achieve this Kawahara aims his world to excel in immersion by giving it so much detail and providing so many game play features and factors (and of course making it as cool as possible). And if recent episodes are anything to go by, Kawahara might explore the darker side of its escapism and end up being far darker than Summer Wars if it isn’t already.

Which one you think is better is ultimately dependant on you. In terms of which world I’d most like to play in, I’d definitely go for Sword Art Online (I mean without the death). In terms of which makes a better story, I’d say Summer Wars edges out, but only because I’m more of a lurker than a gamer.

Ultimately I agree with Blaat: A combination of both probably would be mind-blowing.
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 16:02   Link #408
Craxuan
Crax
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
I think there's at least one thing you're mistaken: You'll not going to live an 'old, boring life' in SAO. In fact you'll die a LOT quicker than you expect, since one, your real body is trapped in a hospital where your entire fate lies on whether the hospital/family/guardians decide to keep you alive or off you and put you out of the misery. Two, you're different from a coma patient that your brain is constantly working instead of brain dead/near BD, which means although your body is slowly dying your brain requires the same energy (or something similar) as when you're active. Eventually your brain is going to break down, and when that happens...
__________________
Craxuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 16:24   Link #409
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I just noticed, but look at how Asuna's holding her knife:


That's not the grip for a short sword or a dagger. Conclusion: there's a "table knife" skill, and Asuna's got it. (Unless the sword skills for the table knife come from the Cooking skill, maybe?)
Anh_Minh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 17:02   Link #410
jcdietz03
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Don't bring a knife to a swordfight?
jcdietz03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 17:06   Link #411
lightsenshi
Author
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I just noticed, but look at how Asuna's holding her knife:
It relates to the cooking skill. You hold a knife different for cooking that you do for combat.
__________________
lightsenshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 17:13   Link #412
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsenshi View Post
It relates to the cooking skill. You hold a knife different for cooking that you do for combat.
But she's using a sword skill with it, since it's glowing. I don't think that's part of cooking.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 17:17   Link #413
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 26
Table knives may fall under a dagger skill for emergency use. Either way it's a gag and we probably shouldn't be giving it too much thought.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 19:24   Link #414
Iron Maw
~Undying Loyality~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Religion exists precisely because most people cannot come to an understanding with their existence. People come up with untestable spiritual "reasons" for their existence and put all their faith in them precisely because they cannot accept that they simply exist against their will. Regardless of whether or not one or more of these religions happens to be true, the human psychological need to discover "purpose" is well documented.
Right, but the Earth is still considered in playing some part in the origin of humanity even in most religions. While it may not explain our existence entirely and leaves much of our past unknown it is common point in creationism. With SAO there is no such "uncertainly", everyone knows why and how they got there; Kayaba tricked and trapped them, that is a fact.

Quote:
Kayaba is playing God. Surely he has no right to play God, but that's what he's doing. He created a world, forced people to live in it, and they have no choice but to accept the rules he's placed on them. IE: He's God, in this little microcosm of the world. People are always forced to accept the world as it is. There have never been any exceptions, ever.
The players of SAO know exactly what it is, a death game they can't leave through normal means. But they also know that this is not their reality and that Kayaba is certainly no God. Which is why there are Clearers such as Kirito who is determine to fight the system by clearing Aincrad or others who have committed suicide to escape. Are there people who have succumbed to hopelessness of situation and found some measure of happiness? Sure, but it's happiness found under oppression.

Quote:
Sometimes your wife divorces you and you lose your family. Sometimes your friends move away and you can't contact them. Sometimes you already have your dream job but get fired because the economy changes. And then you lose your house because you can't pay the bills. Your life gets taken away against your will all the time. I won't say you shouldn't fight for it to the best of your abilities, but regardless of whether you succeed or not the fact that you had to fight to keep what you already had is also a part of life. I really don't understand where this line of reasoning is coming from.
That part of your post earlier sounded like you were saying that "people were settling for less" because of what they could not achieved rather than getting back what was lost. My point is choosing to live SAO not under one's will isn't merely "settling for less" it's being forced to give up or die. Choosing to take the lesser of something still implies that it's still entirely up individual and it's not under such extreme conditions. Essentially I feel the scale and situation here is too different for comparison, if that makes sense to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post

I don't think we can argue that SAO isn't a prison into which the players have been unjustly thrown. The point was, it's not a particularly hellish or sadistic one.
I can concede to that, but it's still prison and that puts quite a damper on things. So far we have mostly dealt with the negatives of being trapped in SAO and not a whole lot of positives specific to the game.

Quote:
Not really. They'd just have to watch each other and sleep in shifts.
They would have to do more than just that. Without safety-zones the players would be under constant spawning monsters attacks from everywhere. Holding some sort organization would be difficult due to panic and paranoia, not to mention the casualty-rate would be insane. Remember, 2,000 died in the first month alone even with the protection offer by the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I just noticed, but look at how Asuna's holding her knife:


That's not the grip for a short sword or a dagger. Conclusion: there's a "table knife" skill, and Asuna's got it. (Unless the sword skills for the table knife come from the Cooking skill, maybe?)
Yeah, it's probably related to her "Cooking" skill.
Iron Maw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 19:44   Link #415
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
Don't bring a knife to a swordfight?
If we're fighting inside a drum/barrel.... the knife's better...
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 19:50   Link #416
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 27
Quote:
Which is why there are Clearers such as Kirito who is determine to fight the system by clearing Aincrad
How exactly is this fighting the system? That's exactly what the system is. Heck, you have to take Kayaba's word for it that this would actually be helpful. He basically told them all to do that. If he wanted to be jerk he'd reveal on the 100th floor that it was all a lie (which is of course a real possibility).
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 19:57   Link #417
Adigard
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
With SAO there is no such "uncertainly", everyone knows why and how they got there; Kayaba tricked and trapped them, that is a fact.
There is a fair bit of uncertainty as to what happens when you die though. But it's certainly not the same thing as origin myths. There's also a very large amount of uncertainty about what happens when they clear the 100th floor. Assuming they have enough Clearers to make it there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
The players of SAO know exactly what it is, a death game they can't leave through normal means. But they also know that this is not their reality and that Kayaba is certainly no God. Which is why there are Clearers such as Kirito who is determine to fight the system by clearing Aincrad or others who have committed suicide to escape.
Prior to the Liz episode Kirito never once talked about escaping. I think that's an important fact to consider. There are certainly Clearers who are fighting their hardest to escape (Asuna, for one)... but there are likely also MMO addicts who are at least moderately happy with SAO.

That doesn't necessarily mean Kirito's life prior to being captured in SAO was terrible, or that he is a wreck who was only saved by escaping / being held hostage in SAO... but it means there are likely some people for whom it isn't hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
I can concede to that, but it's still prison and that puts quite a damper on things. So far we have mostly dealt with the negatives of being trapped in SAO and not a whole lot of positives specific to the game.
I know I keep bringing this up... but our character's who are trapped inside the world are growing familiar with it, and finding things to enjoy inside the world. I think they're finding the 'whole lot of positives' you seem to be missing.
Adigard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 19:57   Link #418
ronelm2000
Moe Kyun~!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Send a message via Skype™ to ronelm2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I just noticed, but look at how Asuna's holding her knife:


That's not the grip for a short sword or a dagger. Conclusion: there's a "table knife" skill, and Asuna's got it. (Unless the sword skills for the table knife come from the Cooking skill, maybe?)
Looks like the starting motion of "Linear" (ie the Rapier skill)
ronelm2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 20:04   Link #419
Iron Maw
~Undying Loyality~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
How exactly is this fighting the system? That's exactly what the system is. Heck, you have to take Kayaba's word for it that this would actually be helpful. He basically told them all to do that. If he wanted to be jerk he'd reveal on the 100th floor that it was all a lie (which is of course a real possibility).
....That is depressingly true, but I'm assuming he's not pulling this stunt just be an asshole. This a whole lot of trouble to ruin your whole life for.
Iron Maw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-29, 20:13   Link #420
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
....That is depressingly true, but I'm assuming he's not pulling this stunt just be an asshole. This a whole lot of trouble to ruin your whole life for.
Agree.... Until now I don't know what is going on in Kayaba's head in making this game a nightmare....
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
end card, weekly spoiler discussion

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.