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Old 2012-08-27, 15:15   Link #241
totoum
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Yeah she was, but the issue I take is that you were making it sound as if it was her general principle to always go over the top when it was very specific to Claude and her interpretation of him.
Sorry,that wasn't my intent,I thought that by saying "on Black Butler II and the chracters she created for it" it'd point out that the quote was related to that.



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It was an anime original and the director specifically said she could do whatever she wanted. But Okada still wanted to keep in the spirit of the original manga.
When it comes to Claude and Alois yes but she was still being supervised when it comes to other aspects where the mangaka sent her approval

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Also, as for the story of Alois and Claude, I was pretty much left free to do whatever I wanted, but for the ending of Sebastian and Ciel I received the idea from Toboso-sensei,
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I was surprised because I thought wow, she's gonna let us do something pretty terrific. Toboso-sensei is really a person of high caliber (LOL)
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Originally Posted by haak
But we've been over this before and we know perfectly well what she's capable when she's not adapting anything: Ano Hana.
Even if i don't believe the crazy rumors born from that ANN post I do believe Okada asked for advice and she wouldn't have gotten the same advice from someone like Kawamori that seems to embrace her more over the topish tendencies.
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Old 2012-08-27, 18:16   Link #242
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
There's always a clear vision involved and Claude was no different. If you had read the interview in full then you'd know that.
When a writer is talking about how far she can go with something, it gives me a picture of somebody who is pushing something beyond what was intended as much as possible without breaking the idea.

This is a general problem I have with Okada's writing. She tends to have an idea and then goes too far with it. This is the sort of stupidity that creates omelette rice incidents.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It was an anime original and the director specifically said she could do whatever she wanted. But Okada still wanted to keep in the spirit of the original manga.

But we've been over this before and we know perfectly well what she's capable when she's not adapting anything: Ano Hana.

And I think blaming her for writing over the top things in a show specifically designed to go over the top all the time is just completely missing the point. Besides give me examples of things that happened in Aquarion Evol that you didn't like. The Gattai euphemisms? Kawamori's idea. The funeral training? Kawamori's idea. The dog thing? Kawamori's idea. The bare skin = power thing? Kawamori's idea. Mixy mixx thing? Kawamori's idea. The way the plot runs as if it's not been properly planned out? Kawamori's idea.

You think that the way she put cross-dressing into Lupin the Third was an insult? Sorry but I couldn't care less about that. I haven't seen the original and now that I know that it's completely different to the recent one and having seeing so many throw hissy fits about how it's too different, I have no intention to. All I know is that Mine Fujiko to Iu Onna was a great show in it's own right. If it's in insult to the source then I'll wait until actual evidence arrives, like a comment in an interview. But for me, simply being different doesn't make it an insult. There's absolutely nothing obnoxious about anything she's done there.

Do I wish that she wouldn't go over the top as frequently as she does? Of course.

Do I think it's a personal insult whenever she does? No.
Using Ano Hana as an example of her writing quality isn't going to do it for me. I take that as an idea that was conceptually great, but extremely flawed in execution. I'm sorry but I didn't appreciate the sheer over the top melodrama that concluded the show, nor did I like the most silly dramatic scenes like Yukiatsu getting caught cross dressing. This is a great example of an anime with too many Okadisms, and when I found out that Nagai's coaching is what prevented it from being even worst, then I truly feared what this might have become without his expert hands.

As for Aquarion, I considered it to be a trash concept to begin with. But I'll stop there, that show clearly wasn't for me. I only point it out because it shows the sorts of things Okada likes to write about I feel, and this is going away from what made me like her originally, True Tears (Not that there weren't SOME Okadisms there too, but not as pronounced).

And yes I think what she did to Lupin III was insulting. It destroyed the integrity of the storytelling by interjecting some really forced and contrived scenario to get yet another male character into a drag based upon what I see as her own personal fetish. It's a writer overwhelming the storytelling and I find that obnoxious when I felt the other talent on board in this project was quite good.

If there is any reason I find it insulting unlike you it's because I perceive this sort of writing to amount to little more than someone trying to troll the audience and I do NOT like troll writers.
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Old 2012-08-28, 13:12   Link #243
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Even if i don't believe the crazy rumors born from that ANN post I do believe Okada asked for advice and she wouldn't have gotten the same advice from someone like Kawamori that seems to embrace her more over the topish tendencies.
Yeah but she specifically asked for Nagai. I think she's smart enough to see why. I think anyone is smart enough to see why.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
When a writer is talking about how far she can go with something, it gives me a picture of somebody who is pushing something beyond what was intended as much as possible without breaking the idea.

This is a general problem I have with Okada's writing. She tends to have an idea and then goes too far with it. This is the sort of stupidity that creates omelette rice incidents.
Okada didn't even script that episode. Nor did she script the Yuina episodes, incidentally. In fact, besides episode 3, most of what she wrote was generally devoid of over the top stuff. I can't quote relentlessflame enough.


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Using Ano Hana as an example of her writing quality isn't going to do it for me. I take that as an idea that was conceptually great, but extremely flawed in execution. I'm sorry but I didn't appreciate the sheer over the top melodrama that concluded the show, nor did I like the most silly dramatic scenes like Yukiatsu getting caught cross dressing. This is a great example of an anime with too many Okadisms, and when I found out that Nagai's coaching is what prevented it from being even worst, then I truly feared what this might have become without his expert hands.
You mean just two? I didn't think the ending was great either but I didn't mind the cross dressing twist at all. And even if I did I still wouldn't overlook everything else that was great about that show.

And Nagai's coaching didn't prevent it from being worse. It was even there to begin with. Okada wasn't sure what to write until she listened to Nagai for advice.

And it's not like Nagai would've been better without her. If everyone thought Ano Natsu was written by Mari Okada then everyone would've probably bashed her for bringing in exhibitionism, sex crazed beach girls, drunk cat girl maids and an over the top alien invasion ending.

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As for Aquarion, I considered it to be a trash concept to begin with. But I'll stop there, that show clearly wasn't for me. I only point it out because it shows the sorts of things Okada likes to write about I feel, and this is going away from what made me like her originally, True Tears (Not that there weren't SOME Okadisms there too, but not as pronounced).
That's no different to me. But I wouldn't turn round and say she shouldn't write those things. That just reeks of elitism. It's not like we were forced to watch it or anything.

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And yes I think what she did to Lupin III was insulting. It destroyed the integrity of the storytelling by interjecting some really forced and contrived scenario to get yet another male character into a drag based upon what I see as her own personal fetish. It's a writer overwhelming the storytelling and I find that obnoxious when I felt the other talent on board in this project was quite good.
The only time I felt it was forced was when she did it to Goemon and i probably wouldn't have even thought it was forced if I didn't know she was behind it. XP

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If there is any reason I find it insulting unlike you it's because I perceive this sort of writing to amount to little more than someone trying to troll the audience and I do NOT like troll writers.
How do you know she's trying to troll us? Is it so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe she thinks those things might be entertaining to some people? Because they ARE entertaining to some people? Just because you don't like something she does, doesn't mean she's doing it on purpose to annoy you.
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Old 2012-08-28, 15:49   Link #244
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Yeah but she specifically asked for Nagai. I think she's smart enough to see why. I think anyone is smart enough to see why.
Well next time she has her own original idea, lets see what happens.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Okada didn't even script that episode. Nor did she script the Yuina episodes, incidentally. In fact, besides episode 3, most of what she wrote was generally devoid of over the top stuff. I can't quote relentlessflame enough.
Oh c'mon now. I am fully aware of this. There are episode scripters, episode directors, episode animation directors. There are tons of people working on every episode that are typically different. What ties it all together? The staff that oversees it. It is Okada's job as series composition to oversee the writing for the entire series, with only really the director to give input to her. She is the boss and boss takes responsibility for the people under her.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
You mean just two? I didn't think the ending was great either but I didn't mind the cross dressing twist at all. And even if I did I still wouldn't overlook everything else that was great about that show.

And Nagai's coaching didn't prevent it from being worse. It was even there to begin with. Okada wasn't sure what to write until she listened to Nagai for advice.

And it's not like Nagai would've been better without her. If everyone thought Ano Natsu was written by Mari Okada then everyone would've probably bashed her for bringing in exhibitionism, sex crazed beach girls, drunk cat girl maids and an over the top alien invasion ending.
Ano Hana did many things well, but in general I felt it was overshadowed by someone trying to jam in emotional angst at every possible turn, culminating into that extremely over the top melodramatic scene at the end. Okada has a problem with communicating angst properly. Ever heard of BRS?

I'm not going to make a list of all the different okadisms throughout for you. I felt it was rather self-evident and I don't got the time to detail every single one for you at this time.

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That's no different to me. But I wouldn't turn round and say she shouldn't write those things. That just reeks of elitism. It's not like we were forced to watch it or anything.
Fans being attached to a previous standard isn't unheard of you know.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
How do you know she's trying to troll us? Is it so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe she thinks those things might be entertaining to some people? Because they ARE entertaining to some people? Just because you don't like something she does, doesn't mean she's doing it on purpose to annoy you.
Oh I'm sure she does think things like "I think this'll amuse the audience." But the types of ways she tries to elicit enjoyment out of us at times feels like pure trollery or gimmicky.

-------

Anyhow Haak, I'm sure we hold very different opinions on Okada. You seem to have more respect for writing than I do. I used to think she was pretty good, and I still think there is talent there somewhere, but her focus has definitely been off in the past year or two and the inconsistency of her original worlds speaks for itself IMO.
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Old 2012-08-29, 13:37   Link #245
Haak
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well next time she has her own original idea, lets see what happens.
I don't need to. Ano Hana is proof enough for me.

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Oh c'mon now. I am fully aware of this. There are episode scripters, episode directors, episode animation directors. There are tons of people working on every episode that are typically different. What ties it all together? The staff that oversees it. It is Okada's job as series composition to oversee the writing for the entire series, with only really the director to give input to her. She is the boss and boss takes responsibility for the people under her.
Naturally. But ultimately if you evaluate the credibility of such an argument, you'll find it coming short. If you're going to criticise her for things she goes unnecessarily over the top with, then using an example she is only indirectly responsible for (and lets face it: neither of us really know what it's like to work there so neither of us know to what extent she's responsible), is not credible enough for me.

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Ano Hana did many things well, but in general I felt it was overshadowed by someone trying to jam in emotional angst at every possible turn, culminating into that extremely over the top melodramatic scene at the end. Okada has a problem with communicating angst properly. Ever heard of BRS?
I have. And I hated it. It's the one show where I can only facepalm at Okada's stupidity. She turned a genuinely simple and down to earth (albeit a little generic), into something completely ridiculous.

But that doesn't make it similar to Ano Hana, and i never once thought that Ano Hana was melodramatic up until the end. I genuinely thought it was perfect.

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I'm not going to make a list of all the different okadisms throughout for you. I felt it was rather self-evident and I don't got the time to detail every single one for you at this time.
Why?!?!?

Why on earth did you think it would be self evident? Look through the thread and you'll find that whilst there is a consensus that Okada is a deeply flawed writer, there's extremely little consensus on what her good anime and bad anime are. Hence why the discussion mainly consisted of everyone giving their opinion until we all shut up and just started to bash her instead. There's nothing else to discuss. If we really want to examine her writing then we have to examine all the details of her writing. And that means examining every single anime she was significantly involved in. Remember the wall of text we created on Eureka Seven AO? And that was just one anime that hasn't even finished yet. Hell we've already managed to create a wall of text on her already and we aren't even discussing her anime in detail.

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Fans being attached to a previous standard isn't unheard of you know.
I know. I'm one of them. But I'm not about to tell her to stop writing and moan every time i see her name on another announced project. If you really want to see her return to her original form, then she has to write. And just because she's prolific in writing that doesn't mean you can't avoid her anyway. She may be prolific compared to others but in reality her contribution is just a slightly larger drop in the ocean.


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Oh I'm sure she does think things like "I think this'll amuse the audience." But the types of ways she tries to elicit enjoyment out of us at times feels like pure trollery or gimmicky.

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Why? Why does it feel "trollery"? You clearly have a strong opinion that Okada is an out of control troll. Then it stands to reason that you must have an equally strong basis right? There's never going to really be any actual discussion if all we do is talk about subjective opinions. In reality we were never really gonna achieve anything more than that.

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Anyhow Haak, I'm sure we hold very different opinions on Okada. You seem to have more respect for writing than I do. I used to think she was pretty good, and I still think there is talent there somewhere, but her focus has definitely been off in the past year or two and the inconsistency of her original worlds speaks for itself IMO.
Besides BRS, I don't think I've ever seen an anime original from her that I've hated and the ones that I did, I didn't expect much from her to begin with. But Ano Hana and Hanasaku Iroha left a strong impression on me, so much so that I don't care what crap she mostly comes out with so long as she still occasionally creates something amazing. This year that was Mine Fujiko to Iu Onna, and next year it might be the HSI film.
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Old 2012-08-30, 02:16   Link #246
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I know. I'm one of them. But I'm not about to tell her to stop writing and moan every time i see her name on another announced project. If you really want to see her return to her original form, then she has to write.
This is probably where I disagree with you the most (on some points, I agree with you).

I think a decent case can be made that Okada is becoming increasingly hit and miss (even you admit to the weakness of her BRS work, and this is fairly recent), and I think a lot of that might simply be that she's overworking herself. I vaguely recall reading about some conflicts that were caused due to Okada writing both AKB0048 and Aquarion EVOL at the same time. I never watched much of AKB0048, but maybe some of the writing issues that cropped up in Aquarion EVOL was due to Okada being overworked (overtired?) while she wrote it.

Writing is not that different from other professions - When a person overworks themselves, the general quality of their work tends to decline with it.

I sincerely do think that Okada's work would probably improve if she took on fewer projects, and was more selective about what she chose to work on.


I certainly don't think that Okada should just stop writing entirely - Like you wrote, she does come out with something excellent every now and then - But I do think that her current work schedule isn't helping matters. It would probably improve the quality of her work if she was to scale back a bit.
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Old 2012-08-30, 02:59   Link #247
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That's sort of the issue. If you loved enough of her works, you can go "Well, can't win them all". But for someone like Reckoner and myself that appreciated True Tears and AnoHana and range from to to on many of her involved productions, there's going to be issues.

It's less "Omg, Okada stop being nub and write the way I want" and more like "not again." Though it is comical in its own way. I mean, she's under no obligation to write what I want, of course. But at the same time, I may have to look twice given certain experiences when she's attached.

I mean let's take Gen Uborochi. It's not just him that will define an anime and there's no guarantee that everything that comes out of him will be gold, but it's still fair to appreciate a good amount of stuff if a new work of his pops up.
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Old 2012-08-30, 13:30   Link #248
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
This is probably where I disagree with you the most (on some points, I agree with you).

I think a decent case can be made that Okada is becoming increasingly hit and miss (even you admit to the weakness of her BRS work, and this is fairly recent),
Not really. From my perspective, it's only been one bad year for her due to three anime (Aquarion Evol, BRS and AKB0048), and two of them were because of the influence of a certain director she's no longer working under. I don't think we can really form any trend from that.

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and I think a lot of that might simply be that she's overworking herself. I vaguely recall reading about some conflicts that were caused due to Okada writing both AKB0048 and Aquarion EVOL at the same time. I never watched much of AKB0048, but maybe some of the writing issues that cropped up in Aquarion EVOL was due to Okada being overworked (overtired?) while she wrote it.
I never really thought there were ever any writing issues for both of those anime. I think they both sucked because the concept that defined the writing was bad to begin with. If you thought there were writing issues with Aquarion Evol then I'd blame it on the apparent fact that Kawamori never planned properly:

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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
-Kawamori doesn't like to do things as planned till the end, so the story changed a lot from the original plan. With that way of doing things they might end up changing even the setting on a whim. Okada worried a lot over it, but she found it fun. She was very sorry for the other writers, but luckily they were all people able to cope with changes.
And her schedule still didn't stop her from writing Mine Fujiko Iu Onna which I thought was incredible.

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Writing is not that different from other professions - When a person overworks themselves, the general quality of their work tends to decline with it.

I sincerely do think that Okada's work would probably improve if she took on fewer projects, and was more selective about what she chose to work on.

I certainly don't think that Okada should just stop writing entirely - Like you wrote, she does come out with something excellent every now and then - But I do think that her current work schedule isn't helping matters. It would probably improve the quality of her work if she was to scale back a bit.
If that was the problem, then I'd be happy to agree but I'm still not seeing it. It just sounds me to like we're just over-thinking it. It could be that she's overworking herself. Or it could simply be that she's just not doing as well as last year.
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Old 2012-08-30, 21:25   Link #249
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Not really. From my perspective, it's only been one bad year for her due to three anime (Aquarion Evol, BRS and AKB0048), and two of them were because of the influence of a certain director she's no longer working under. I don't think we can really form any trend from that.
That "one bad year" happens to be the most recent one, and the one in which she seems to be working more than ever before. That's my point - If her work schedule was more like it was in the past, maybe her writing would be better for it.


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I never really thought there were ever any writing issues for both of those anime. I think they both sucked because the concept that defined the writing was bad to begin with. If you thought there were writing issues with Aquarion Evol then I'd blame it on the apparent fact that Kawamori never planned properly:

With all due respect, Haak, you're beginning to sound like somebody who's running an "Okada for President 2012!" election campaign.

"Everything good Okada is associated with is all her baby! And everything bad Okada is associated with is totally somebody else's fault!"

Seriously, that seems to be the gist of your take on Okada. Don't you think that's rather biased, and doesn't exactly constitute a fair or evenhanded take on Okada?

You're willing to give Okada all sorts of credit for AnoHana (in spite of AnoHana having a prominent Director), but with Aquarion EVOL you blame all of its writing issues on its prominent Director? You don't see the double standard here?

Honestly, you do seem to be trying to have it both ways with Okada (she gets major credit for AnoHana, but she should get a total slide with Aquarion EVOL and AKB0048). And I just don't think that's an even remotely fair or evenhanded take on it.


I'm willing to give Okada some real credit for AnoHana. At the same time, that means she should get some real blame for other anime shows that didn't go so well.
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Old 2012-08-31, 13:48   Link #250
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That "one bad year" happens to be the most recent one, and the one in which she seems to be working more than ever before. That's my point - If her work schedule was more like it was in the past, maybe her writing would be better for it.
All I'm poitning out is that correlation does not mean causation. I happen to believe that the perceived drop in writing happens to be due to her doing two anime under Kawamori more than anything else.

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With all due respect, Haak, you're beginning to sound like somebody who's running an "Okada for President 2012!" election campaign.

"Everything good Okada is associated with is all her baby! And everything bad Okada is associated with is totally somebody else's fault!"

Seriously, that seems to be the gist of your take on Okada. Don't you think that's rather biased, and doesn't exactly constitute a fair or evenhanded take on Okada?

You're willing to give Okada all sorts of credit for AnoHana (in spite of AnoHana having a prominent Director), but with Aquarion EVOL you blame all of its writing issues on its prominent Director? You don't see the double standard here?

Honestly, you do seem to be trying to have it both ways with Okada (she gets major credit for AnoHana, but she should get a total slide with Aquarion EVOL and AKB0048). And I just don't think that's an even remotely fair or evenhanded take on it.

I'm willing to give Okada some real credit for AnoHana. At the same time, that means she should get some real blame for other anime shows that didn't go so well.
I place credit based on what I can tell from the writing and what I hear from interviews with each anime. My reasons for giving most of the credit to Okada for Ano Hana is specific to Ano Hana and my reason for giving most of the "blame" for Aquarion Evol on Kawamori (I'm not even really blaming him really since Aquarion Evol was never designed to fit my tastes to begin with), is specific to Aquarion Evol. You see this is why I keep harping on about how we can only truly discuss Okada's writing by discussing her anime in detail...

When it comes to Aquarion Evol my main problem with it comes from it's plot and it's tone. The characters themselves were all great, varied and full of personality. I thought they were all great (Yes, even Amata) and I loved how they interacted with one another. So for the first 13 episodes I was actually mostly enjoying the show. The only thing that put me off were the ridiculous "Unions" and other weird crap thanks to the tone and aim of the show. It's after episode 13 that the plot starts moving and that's when i start disliking it more and more. It started off with a bizarre mix of drama and stupidity with the funeral training and then Kagura's unwelcome appearance. The main character's interactions become more tied in with the weird plot as Mikono and Amata go nowhere and Zessica finds out about the legends and sulks a lot. Mix and Andy are funny as always until it's totally ruined when she gets turned into a guy (though not when she was kidnapped because Andy was actually cool when he was pissed), and then after that the show becomes more about resolving the plot lines and it just becomes a complete mess altogether.

Now as I've already pointed out, based on the rather detailed interviews available, most of those plot developments (and the entire premise) are thanks to Kawamori so I hand Kawamori the most "blame". I'm sure Okada gets some "blame" there as well but I've also pointed out, her writing was dictated by the tone of the show right from the beginning so I can't really blame her for following that. It would've been obnoxious if she didn't.

None of these reasons even remotely apply to Ano Hana so naturally there's no contradiction in my opinions of Okada's writing regarding those two shows. I place most of the credit for Ano Hana on Okada simply because it was her script to begin with and the most I know about Nagai's contribution is guiding Okada to a solid premise and adapting her script masterfully, which is why it's difficult to know how much credit to place on him. Of course, I'm certainly not adverse to believing it wouldn't have been as good if not for Nagai:

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Ano Hana – Fantastic drama up until the ending. But I think a lot of this was the Nagai factor too. (Overall: 9/10)
What I was pointing out was that Nagai didn't (contrary to the generally misconception) force Okada to make any changes or "reign" her in.

I'm not going to give equal "Blame" and credit for Okada on every show Okada's associated with because too me that would just be ridiculous. I base my impression of Okada's writing based on the specifics of each anime as best as I can. And I think that's the only way to truly have a half credible opinion on her.
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Old 2012-09-01, 13:45   Link #251
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All I'm poitning out is that correlation does not mean causation. I happen to believe that the perceived drop in writing happens to be due to her doing two anime under Kawamori more than anything else.
But that doesn't explain BRS.

I don't see why it would be hard to accept that Okada might be doing too much work for the good of her own writing quality. Of the criticisms one can make of a writer, this strikes me as one of the milder ones: That the writer needs to pace himself/herself better.


Quote:
I place credit based on what I can tell from the writing and what I hear from interviews with each anime. My reasons for giving most of the credit to Okada for Ano Hana is specific to Ano Hana and my reason for giving most of the "blame" for Aquarion Evol on Kawamori (I'm not even really blaming him really since Aquarion Evol was never designed to fit my tastes to begin with), is specific to Aquarion Evol. You see this is why I keep harping on about how we can only truly discuss Okada's writing by discussing her anime in detail...
Well, to discuss her anime in detail, it should be pointed out that for a lot of viewers of Aquarion EVOL, a big bone of contention was the handling of the love quadrangle. Specifically, a lot of people (including me) were displeased with the handling of Zessica's character.

And according to those detailed interviews that you keep referring to, Okada basically admitted that she might have went too far in how she set up Zessica to be a tragic character. It's also worth mentioning that Okada encouraged Kawamori to go with a certain plot twist that had a very mixed reception - Kawamori had doubts about that plot twist until Okada encouraged him to go with it.

So I think there's plenty of problems in Aquarion EVOL that can be laid at Okada's feet. Kawamori certainly shares heavily in the blame, but some issues should be shouldered by Okada as well (the love quadrangle was particularly disappointing to me given how excellent True Tear's love triangle was).
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Old 2012-09-01, 15:14   Link #252
Haak
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
But that doesn't explain BRS.
There's no need to explain BRS. It's just one anime. Sometimes shit just happens.

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I don't see why it would be hard to accept that Okada might be doing too much work for the good of her own writing quality. Of the criticisms one can make of a writer, this strikes me as one of the milder ones: That the writer needs to pace himself/herself better.
I never said it was hard. I'm just saying I'm not convinced that's the reason.

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Well, to discuss her anime in detail, it should be pointed out that for a lot of viewers of Aquarion EVOL, a big bone of contention was the handling of the love quadrangle. Specifically, a lot of people (including me) were displeased with the handling of Zessica's character.

And according to those detailed interviews that you keep referring to, Okada basically admitted that she might have went too far in how she set up Zessica to be a tragic character. It's also worth mentioning that Okada encouraged Kawamori to go with a certain plot twist that had a very mixed reception - Kawamori had doubts about that plot twist until Okada encouraged him to go with it.

So I think there's plenty of problems in Aquarion EVOL that can be laid at Okada's feet. Kawamori certainly shares heavily in the blame, but some issues should be shouldered by Okada as well (the love quadrangle was particularly disappointing to me given how excellent True Tear's love triangle was).
I'm not really sure what you're talking about since I got a much more different impression about how she wanted to handle Zessica:

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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
-Okada sympathized with Zessica who remained in a losing position no matter what. Midway there was a plan to involve more Zessica, but she was told that wouldn't be refreshing. Okada herself doesn't know if Evol could be really considered refreshing. Anyway, she felt she overdid it with Zessica as a loser, but even the other writers just came up with situations a la "the housekeeper saw it!{a TV drama}". She got uneasy when Zessica secretly witnessed Amata and Mikono together. Mikono was a character who tended to fall to the dark side, so Okada insisted for having Zessica more heroic.
And what's this plot twist that Okada apparently considered Kawamori have in the story?

Besides even if those things are true, neither suggest those are the result of overworking. They sound to me like clear conscious decisions she made.
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Old 2012-09-01, 21:50   Link #253
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
There's no need to explain BRS. It's just one anime. Sometimes shit just happens.
The fact is that many of Okada's more poorly received works have all occurred this year, and you obviously can't blame all of that on Kawamori (which is why I brought up BRS).

I do think that there is sufficient reason to think that Okada's writing quality has slipped recently, and that her overworking herself is part of the reason why. People can disagree with that opinion, but it's hardly an unfounded one.

And it's not mean-spirited, or unwarranted hating, to simply think and say that a writer would be better off scaling back a bit.


Quote:
I'm not really sure what you're talking about...
You just quoted it yourself: "Anyway, she felt she overdid it with Zessica as a loser." That's exactly the quote I was thinking of when I wrote what I did about Okada's handling of Zessica.

And that's precisely what many Aquarion EVOL viewers didn't like (even some Amata/Mikono shippers!). Many of us didn't like the heavy Zessica focus given that all of that focus was on how Zessica was an angsting romantic loser (and was going into a spiraling descent).

Now, was the issue in choosing Zessica to be a somewhat tragic heroine, or was the issue with how that idea was executed? I think at least some of the issue was in how the idea was executed.

Okada handled love drama extremely well before (True Tears), so why not this time? Maybe it's because her focus was divided into too many places all at once (due to numerous concurrent writing roles), and that prevented her from giving the love drama of Aquarion EVOL the careful focus that it probably needed in order to come off well.

That sounds like a reasonable notion to me.


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And what's this plot twist that Okada apparently considered Kawamori have in the story?
The dog thing. I can clarify if you need me to, but you probably don't need me to.
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Old 2012-09-02, 01:33   Link #254
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I'm going to lock this thread because I think it's now just basically people arguing about whether the justifications people have for not liking certain anime are really justified or not. In the end, people can take whatever they want from this thread, and I think they already have. People who wish to continue specific back-and-forth conversations about this issue can do so via PM or VM as well. If there's a compelling reason to re-open this thread at a later time (perhaps when there's some significant new news or analysis to contribute), feel free to PM me or another member of the staff and it will be considered.
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Old 2012-10-04, 16:06   Link #255
thirdlc
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I translated the interview at the 2nd post in Okada interviews thread http://forums.animesuki.com/group.ph...cussionid=1992.

This is a long interview. If you're not interested in how she became a scriptwriter, I recommend you to search "How do you evaluate your own part of Sketchbook" and read from there.

TL;DR…
 
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Are you going to say "budget"? Wait! Is your point really related to budget? Isn't it time or style?
Simply put, production time is consistency, and budget is framerate.
Even poor animation is costlier than a high-quality still shot.

Last edited by thirdlc; 2012-10-05 at 03:34. Reason: Fixed some typos, a link error and a mistranslation
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Old 2012-10-04, 16:21   Link #256
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After reading that, I seriously think that somebody should do an anime based on Mari Okada's life story to date. I think that would be rather entertaining, really.

I'll give this to Okada - She gives great interviews. Impressively candid, and she doesn't seem to hold anything back.
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Old 2012-10-04, 16:52   Link #257
Haak
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I'll say. I seriously loled hard when she talked about imagining herself dating the boys she hated. Then I completely lost it when she talked about True Tears true pairing.
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Old 2012-10-04, 17:03   Link #258
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I'll say. I seriously loled hard when she talked about imagining herself dating the boys she hated. Then I completely lost it when she talked about True Tears true pairing.
Seriously,I'll talk about the rest a bit later on but the True Tears part is the one that made me go "holy cow",talk about a major revelation
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Old 2012-10-04, 17:23   Link #259
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Seriously,I'll talk about the rest a bit later on but the True Tears part is the one that made me go "holy cow",talk about a major revelation
I want to see Okada's original script for True Tears animated.

It'll be so delicious seeing the tables turned on Pocari Sweat.
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Old 2012-10-04, 18:37   Link #260
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I'll post more later since I'm at work (can only do so much with a smartphone), but in summary:

Batshit writer confirmed.

I almost lost it 3 times when I was jokingly thinking of outrageous theories about her and the reasons why she wrote in the way she does, and in turns out most of them were right!

Wait ... I'm supposed to on strike regarding this writer. *insert half-ass rant here*.
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