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Old 2012-08-29, 19:36   Link #41
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
What I don't get is what I heard on TV yesterday. The biggest group of Romney supporters is white, male, BLUE COLLAR workers. What? Romney is so out of touch with the common American and people who have to work hard to support their families and themselves. This is the guy that thinks corporations are people. Apparently, Romney thinks these 'people' (corporations) deserve a lot more freedoms, rights, and compassion than homosexuals and women. SMH - Actually, you could say that for a lot of GOP officials. SMH x 100
A lot of people either aren't thinking things through, or they're buying the arguments that are presented to them. There's this idea that if corporations are unleashed (basically, remove tax burdens and operating restrictions) then they'll magically bring about prosperity, creating jobs and bringing money in to the economy.

Of course, it ignores the fact that effective corporate taxes in America are the lowest that they have ever been in history. It also ignores the fact that corporations are profit-driven entities, and something that has massively driven their profits has been offshoring jobs. That's fantastic for China, India, Vietnam, and the other countries that received work that was formerly carried out by Americans, but it's not so great for the American workers. But people are basically believing what they want. There isn't any real alternative plan of action for how to get the economy going like it used to be (not surprising, particularly since the economies of nearly every country are struggling), so people cling to the hope that this line of action might actually do something. It's more reassuring to feel like you're doing something than to "wait and see."

It's also worth noting that many of these people don't necessarily like Romney or identify with him. They're just voting for "not Obama."
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Old 2012-08-29, 20:37   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
It's also worth noting that many of these people don't necessarily like Romney or identify with him. They're just voting for "not Obama."
Obama ain't that great, but the GOPs plan of attempting to make Obama a one term president shows signs of working so far. Many people don't know the GOP has been messing around with the country for politics and just think that the bad progress with the economy is totally Obama's fault. But hopefully the GOPs attempt to make Obama a one term president fails. With how batshit crazy and corrupt the GOP has become, the less power they ever have, the better.
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Old 2012-08-29, 20:37   Link #43
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
More like ''current day GOP'' and McCainsimply following the group.
That is not true. The current GOP understands that new wars are completely unrealistic and unhelpful to the current economic environment. True, Reagan inspired the modern day convention of a show of strength being the best deterrent, but no one is urging war. Save for McCain. That is one of the main reasons his speech was so weird.
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Old 2012-08-30, 04:44   Link #44
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Libya turned out all right. Considering the cost of it, that's already pretty good compared to previous interventions the US was involved in.

As for Syria, and even Iran, I suspect there were diplomatic issues that Obama had to contend with. I suspect that Russia and China would have been seriously displeased if the US did as it liked. Even though the Soviet Union is long gone, both of those countries have the capability for MAD. Let's not start WW3 over Syria.
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Old 2012-08-30, 07:03   Link #45
SaintessHeart
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In the US :



The rest of the developed world is following in your lead. So what will it be this time round?

I was watching the Republican Convention at work fixing cable TV, and when Ryan takes the stage, his eyes seem to be twitching alot. As the volume had to be muted at work, I didn't really catch what he says, but his expressions make him the most dubious man on stage.

And does he REALLY have to show off his family to show that he cares about kinship?
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Old 2012-08-30, 08:29   Link #46
ganbaru
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Top 5 Fibs In Paul Ryan’s Convention Speech
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ch.php?ref=fpa
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Old 2012-08-30, 08:44   Link #47
Neki Ecko
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and yall know what is so wrong about that speech.

When he did talk about the S+P downgraded the triple A rating, he and his GOP mates was the ones that kept on reject budget after budget on the HOR floor, they want more cuts after the Dems did some of the cuts to make them happy and they still want it more. And he blame Obama for that? and I remember that Obama was the one that pleading with the GOP about this.
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Old 2012-08-30, 13:27   Link #48
Vexx
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Ryan's speech even blamed the stimulus package on Obama when it was a done deal before he took office. I *made* myself watch the whole thing and I lost count of the number of lies, false histories, and fantasies that were presented before Ryan even took the stage and presented his schizophrenic version of history. He even neglected to mention the little issue that he as a teenager depended on Social Security when his father died.

I was so pissed off I had to turn the tv off when he was done and go make a drink. There is no connection at all between the worldview the GOP is creating and the facts. It is... simply stunning.
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Old 2012-08-30, 14:12   Link #49
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Well, according to the GOP, facts are just beliefs that biased people have, and they can differ between people. So, yeah, they think facts are opinions.
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Old 2012-08-30, 14:34   Link #50
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A strange thing, I just started to read Huckleberry Finn and when at that part when Huckleberry's drumk of a father start to talk about the ''govment'' and a ''free nigger'' ( as said on the text), it sounded somehow like something I would had expected from a present day GOP or at the very least a Tea-Bagger, minus the vernacular.
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Old 2012-08-30, 15:06   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Ryan's speech even blamed the stimulus package on Obama when it was a done deal before he took office. I *made* myself watch the whole thing and I lost count of the number of lies, false histories, and fantasies that were presented before Ryan even took the stage and presented his schizophrenic version of history. He even neglected to mention the little issue that he as a teenager depended on Social Security when his father died.

I was so pissed off I had to turn the tv off when he was done and go make a drink. There is no connection at all between the worldview the GOP is creating and the facts. It is... simply stunning.
I actually didn't mind the Paul speech so much. It was political grandstanding, with very overt (and uninspired) rhetoric and little to no appeal to a moderate or independent (I personally found the speech boring), but I thought Rand Paul and Condi Rice's speeches were far more "harmful", or at least hypothesized situations and beliefs that would create greater harm, than Paul Ryan's speech. Anyone urging conflict as the main focus of their speech should be ashamed, and I have to wonder if they even understand what the modern GOP/Tea Partier even wants (they obviously do not understand what the modern/average Americans wants), considering war and additional conflict is far down the list of importance to the modern GOP platform and even farther down the list for Independents and Democrats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
A strange thing, I just started to read Huckleberry Finn and when at that part when Huckleberry's drumk of a father start to talk about the ''govment'' and a ''free nigger'' ( as said on the text), it sounded somehow like something I would had expected from a present day GOP or at the very least a Tea-Bagger, minus the vernacular.
That's...going a little too far. There are, of course, those ignorant, arrogant, and ultimately vile enough to believe and espouse such hateful doctrine (I readily admit there is probably more of these type of...people than I expect), but the Tea Party movement as a whole should not be so easily dismissed. There are many, hopefully a majority, of Tea Partiers (not necessarily the "official" representatives in Congress) who desperately want a civil discussion concerning these amazingly important issues (there are actually a few on this very forum, though they seldom enter these political threads). So please, try to vilify the individuals that make hateful comments, not necessarily the entire party/organization.
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Old 2012-08-30, 15:25   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That's...going a little too far. There are, of course, those ignorant, arrogant, and ultimately vile enough to believe and espouse such hateful doctrine (I readily admit there is probably more of these type of...people than I expect), but the Tea Party movement as a whole should not be so easily dismissed. There are many, hopefully a majority, of Tea Partiers (not necessarily the "official" representatives in Congress) who desperately want a civil discussion concerning these amazingly important issues (there are actually a few on this very forum, though they seldom enter these political threads). So please, try to vilify the individuals that make hateful comments, not necessarily the entire party/organization.
But a majority of the Tea Party thinks like that, james0246. Believe me, I seen it first hand (had a good conversion with a Tea Party, that went ugly fast) but rest of the Tea Party folks is good people, misinformed ofcourse but they are cordial and they just want government to get smaller not bigger.

Vexx, I was at school but I did read the whole thing and I have to be honest, I wonder why they want to throw blame on somebody that doesnt have any control of the situation. Like that S/P isssue, I remember plenty of times that Obama want both sides to agreed but GOP didnt want to play, even with the stimulus that wasnt his called, he still got blame for it. I just dumbfound about that. Obama screwed up from time to time but he was still trying to bring both sides to the table and actually getting stuff done.
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Old 2012-08-30, 15:40   Link #53
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Obama ain't that great, but the GOPs plan of attempting to make Obama a one term president shows signs of working so far. Many people don't know the GOP has been messing around with the country for politics and just think that the bad progress with the economy is totally Obama's fault. But hopefully the GOPs attempt to make Obama a one term president fails. With how batshit crazy and corrupt the GOP has become, the less power they ever have, the better.
That's all due to people not knowing their civics and how the government works. And this is where the play against improving education is paying out for the Republicans. As long as the people do not know these things, they can get away with their shenanigans easier.

Now, here is something Romney would never do in a million years:
Quote:
Obama on Reddit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...3a7_story.html
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Old 2012-08-30, 16:00   Link #54
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One basic thing I've noticed is that people on both sides of the political arguements think the other side is misinformed. it is becoming cronic that the right wing voters thing the left wing voters are out of touch with reality and the left wing voters think the same of the right wing voters.
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Old 2012-08-30, 16:01   Link #55
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In other news, U.S. court rejects Texas voter ID law. It seems a Federal Court has banned the recently passed practice of having all potential voters show a photo ID before they are allowed to vote. The three judge court unanimously decided that the law imposed "strict, unforgiving burdens on the poor". This ruling comes only days after the planned redistricting of Texas was forbidden because the redrawn districts were seemingly purposely redrawn in order to limit the influence of minorities (in elections).

Texas Republicans are having a bad week. On the other hand, average Texas citizens are having a good week (minus the whole West Nile virus thingy).
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Old 2012-08-30, 16:07   Link #56
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
One basic thing I've noticed is that people on both sides of the political arguements think the other side is misinformed. it is becoming cronic that the right wing voters thing the left wing voters are out of touch with reality and the left wing voters think the same of the right wing voters.
Even worse -- it's getting harder and harder to sit in the middle of the fence. Too many people these days play the "all-or-nothing deal".

And so, to snap out of that spell -- take 4-5 issues. And rank them in terms of importance. Then form coalitions among people centered on those issues. Everything else is subject to compromise, or to be ignored for the time being.
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Old 2012-08-30, 16:11   Link #57
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
One basic thing I've noticed is that people on both sides of the political arguements think the other side is misinformed. it is becoming cronic that the right wing voters thing the left wing voters are out of touch with reality and the left wing voters think the same of the right wing voters.
Problem is:
1) the facts actually clear the air, some world views come closer to accuracy.
2) when you have a significant portion of Republicans and former Republicans saying, "wtf?", that should be another clue.
3) independent analysis doesn't support a false equivalency of views.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...m_business_pop

http://mediamatters.org/research/201...undermi/189589

I'm noticing even the conservative analysts are being left with their jaws hanging open at the sheer magnitude of sprayed bullshit this week. I've been on both sides of the party fence, having changed registration several times over the last 40 years. There *is* a fundamental dichotomy in ability to admit facts don't support assertions going on this decade.

It'll be interesting to see how "The Economist" and "Foreign Policy" react to this week's festival of nonsense.
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Old 2012-08-30, 16:21   Link #58
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
In other news, U.S. court rejects Texas voter ID law. It seems a Federal Court has banned the recently passed practice of having all potential voters show a photo ID before they are allowed to vote. The three judge court unanimously decided that the law imposed "strict, unforgiving burdens on the poor". This ruling comes only days after the planned redistricting of Texas was forbidden because the redrawn districts were seemingly purposely redrawn in order to limit the influence of minorities (in elections).
If such judgement could happen and being enforced also in Florida...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm noticing even the conservative analysts are being left with their jaws hanging open at the sheer magnitude of sprayed bullshit this week.
I wonder if the democrate will managge to use it as effective weapon against the GOP.
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Old 2012-08-30, 16:27   Link #59
Vexx
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I wonder if the democrate will managge to use it as effective weapon against the GOP.
Up to now, the democrats have been notoriously inept on either communicating what they're about or in effectively undermining GOP thin-air assertions. In short, they're pansies - they also suffer from that which a democracy needs: diversity. They're aren't in lockstep, they argue with each other, etc. They let the GOP define the language, which often loses the debate before it starts.
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Old 2012-08-30, 16:28   Link #60
Neki Ecko
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Quote:
Up to now, the democrats have been notoriously inept on either communicating what they're about or in effectively undermining GOP thin-air assertions. In short, they're pansies - they also suffer from that which a democracy needs: diversity. They're aren't in lockstep, they argue with each other, etc. They let the GOP define the language, which often loses the debate before it starts.
Vexx, you got to remember that they still want to play ball with GOP, with GOP controling one side of the house, you will have to play nice/nice with them and show the US that they wont stoop down to GOP levels. I think Obama is weary about that (Budget is the biggest headache) but he is still willing to go to the table with them.
Quote:
Obama on Reddit
I have a chance to read the transcript and some of the comments on there. I believe that Romney wont be doing that, unless somebody from his party urge him to do it ofcourse but I think one of the thing that really stand out that, he is urge for us to be patience, I know that he say that it will take time for US to get out of the vines that this country is, we are on that direction but not the neck breaking speed that GOP wants.
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