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Old 2012-08-30, 15:10   Link #3921
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Should be able to transfer it to anyone. Kiritsugu didn't transfer it to Shirou because he didn't want to, not because he couldn't.
Flinch cover most of it.

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And if I'm not mistaken, Waver obtains Kayneth's magic crest in the future at some point.
i don't think he did. He got Kayneth's title but not the crest.

looking at the wiki, Waver inherited Kayneth's Mystic Code (the mercury thing).
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Old 2012-08-30, 15:22   Link #3922
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What's the difference between Mystic Code and Magic Crest, then?
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Old 2012-08-30, 15:59   Link #3923
Arabesque
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Originally Posted by Flinch View Post
There's a high rate of rejection, even among close blood relatives. If it's transplanted en masse or too quickly, the body completely rejects and usually will die. As a result, the crest must be transferred bit by bit over years, and even then there is still a high rate of rejection if they are not direct offspring. Going outside of the immediate family is possible, just not very smart. As a result, their are main family branches, as they are the ones who end up with the crest.
So the reason why they don't do it is because the success rate falls down once it comes to anyone else ... so unless they are desperate, it's always best to pass it down to your children.

Thanks for the answer.

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Originally Posted by Flinch View Post
(Acht most likely participated in the second war, as he was a head of the family and didn't die in the third war as the Einzbern master did in that war)
Do you mean the Einzbern master in the second war? Because I think that that's the war where everyone died, while Acht participated in the Third war (don't know if he was Avenger's master or not)

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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Should be able to transfer it to anyone. Kiritsugu didn't transfer it to Shirou because he didn't want to, not because he couldn't.
He could have? I remember that it's mentioned in Fate/Stay Night that you can't transfer it to someone who isn't actually blood related (somewhere in UBW I think) but it's been a while since I last played the game so ...

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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
And if I'm not mistaken, Waver obtains Kayneth's magic crest in the future at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i don't think he did. He got Kayneth's title but not the crest.
Well, whether or not Waver is able to inherent Kayneth's, it's impossible for him to actually do it, since Kiritsugu gave it a case of Origin Bullet-itis.

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What's the difference between Mystic Code and Magic Crest, then?
From what I understand, they are just complex magic used by magi, a whole lot like Conceptual Weapons except they don't necessarily have to be weapons.

So to use it you just need to learn the formula/concept behind it and master it, which means any magus can theoretically use it as long as they have the understanding and talent to do it, while with Magic Crests it something unique that can be passed to only one person at a time.
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Old 2012-08-30, 16:02   Link #3924
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What's the difference between Mystic Code and Magic Crest, then?
the Magic Crest is basically the Hard Drive with all that Families Magic Research is store. With a High Degree of Security.
the Mystic Code is a Swiss Army knife.
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Old 2012-08-30, 17:14   Link #3925
GDB
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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Do you mean the Einzbern master in the second war? Because I think that that's the war where everyone died, while Acht participated in the Third war (don't know if he was Avenger's master or not)
I doubt he was in any war. The third war's Einzbern Master lost pretty quickly, and I don't see them being allowed to live.

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He could have? I remember that it's mentioned in Fate/Stay Night that you can't transfer it to someone who isn't actually blood related (somewhere in UBW I think) but it's been a while since I last played the game so ...
Then what good is it to get your hands on another family's magical crest if you can't actually use it? I find it hard to believe it's like a computer code and you can just crack it open without actually using it.

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Well, whether or not Waver is able to inherent Kayneth's, it's impossible for him to actually do it, since Kiritsugu gave it a case of Origin Bullet-itis.
That was magical circuits, not magical crest.

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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the Magic Crest is basically the Hard Drive with all that Families Magic Research is store. With a High Degree of Security.
the Mystic Code is a Swiss Army knife.
Makes sense. Though I don't think "exterior weapon" when I hear "code", so I'm blaming it on poor naming.
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Old 2012-08-30, 17:21   Link #3926
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Makes sense. Though I don't think "exterior weapon" when I hear "code", so I'm blaming it on poor naming.
it is not necessarily a weapon. Although most can use as weapon, its primary purpose is usually as aide to the magus. Which is why i compare it to a Swiss Army Knife.
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Old 2012-08-30, 17:40   Link #3927
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All the ones listed on typemoon wiki are either weapons, are used as weapons, or allows one to use weapons (Servants) better. >_>
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Old 2012-08-31, 21:00   Link #3928
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A Mystic Code is, more or less, the ultimate technique of a magus.

Also, with the Einzberns, Acht just missed meeting Justica, who fought for the Einzberns and ended up losing in the last battle of the first grail war (her last kill was most likely Makiri Zouken's servant). The Third War was the... most messed up war. Two Sabers, for starters, and an Avenger instead of a Beserker. Einzberns also were either the first or second Master out of that war, and not only was the Master killed, the grail itself was damaged, so Acht couldn't have been from that war.
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Old 2012-08-31, 21:08   Link #3929
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The first war wasn't even a war though. There were only three people, they built the greater grail, and Justica is the core of it.
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Old 2012-08-31, 22:37   Link #3930
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The first war wasn't even a war though. There were only three people, they built the greater grail, and Justica is the core of it.
Yeah, but they were upset that they had to let outsiders in. The Einzberns hated it the most, because not only did they have to share with the 3 Families, but 4 outsiders also had a chance. Also, none of the 3 families ever won until the 4th war, which was a victory for the Einzberns, so there was no way there were only 3 contestants in the First Heaven's Feel.
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Old 2012-09-01, 07:26   Link #3931
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A Mystic Code is only the name for a magical tool, it's not the ultimate work of a magus. It's just that a magus' ultimate work just happens to also be a magical tool.

Also, you can transfer your Crests to people for more mundane means than teaching the family magic to them, it can also improve a person's resistance to magic, although with non-blood related people, the effect quickly fades and you have to literally purge the Crest of all the information before transfer.

Moreover, giving people outside the family the Crest doesn't work very well because the body was suited to whatever traits the original family had, so that has a high probability of messing up their innate talents to acclimate.

The Einzberns are special given they use artificially created humans whose only purpose are being essentially clones of Justeaze, and the crest is more just a part of the body from the start, so there is no rejection, given homunculi are just walking magic circuits given human form. Ilya was modified in the womb as well, despite being born regularly.

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Also, none of the 3 families ever won until the 4th war, which was a victory for the Einzberns, so there was no way there were only 3 contestants in the First Heaven's Feel.
There was, that was why they said for the Second Heaven's Feel that they had to bring in more sacrifices, because the filling of the vessel was insufficient(as well as other issues like the Command System being faulty). So they lured people with the promise of a wish.
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Old 2012-09-01, 09:13   Link #3932
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Ilya was modified in the womb as well, despite being born regularly.
Was she? I thought she wasn't modified until after Kiritsugu "betrayed" them? Or was she just modified a second time then?
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Old 2012-09-01, 09:15   Link #3933
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Since her lack of aging correctly was around before the war, it's likely they did all they needed to do to prepare her to be a vessel in the womb.
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Old 2012-09-01, 09:29   Link #3934
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Ilya will most likely gonna look like a teenager at the age of 30+.
Just saying.
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Old 2012-09-01, 09:32   Link #3935
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Was she? I thought she wasn't modified until after Kiritsugu "betrayed" them? Or was she just modified a second time then?
Spoiler for Fate/Zero Light Novel - Prologue - 8 years ago:
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Old 2012-09-01, 09:53   Link #3936
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Well, that clears that up then. Thanks. Though didn't they say in the VN that they modified her more after Kiritsugu "betrayed" them? I guess to make her magical circuits stronger to support Berserker plus the Grail's strain or something?

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Ilya will most likely gonna look like a teenager at the age of 30+.
Just saying.
Too bad she can't live that long.
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Old 2012-09-01, 10:41   Link #3937
Altima of the Gates
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Maybe not, look at the Tiger Dojo omake at the end of the game. Nasu is clearly saying something about that through Ilya when they are talking about her end in the Fate route. So there might just be a way.
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Old 2012-09-01, 10:43   Link #3938
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Well, that clears that up then. Thanks. Though didn't they say in the VN that they modified her more after Kiritsugu "betrayed" them? I guess to make her magical circuits stronger to support Berserker plus the Grail's strain or something?



Too bad she can't live that long.

I'm pretty sure she can live that long. That she will not or not is a matter of the Grail War. (Fifth War shouldn't have happened until she was like 60 or 70 years old).
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Old 2012-09-01, 14:41   Link #3939
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
The first war wasn't even a war though. There were only three people, they built the greater grail, and Justica is the core of it.


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Originally Posted by Flinch View Post
Yeah, but they were upset that they had to let outsiders in. The Einzberns hated it the most, because not only did they have to share with the 3 Families, but 4 outsiders also had a chance. Also, none of the 3 families ever won until the 4th war, which was a victory for the Einzberns, so there was no way there were only 3 contestants in the First Heaven's Feel.
So, where could one read this info in a more organized manner instead of quesiton bombing (provided one can't read japanese)?
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Old 2012-09-01, 17:26   Link #3940
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Ilya actually had a happy ending in the fate route.Haven't finished the HF route but she dies when she becomes like justica right?
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