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Old 2012-09-01, 11:18   Link #2961
kaito-kid
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So are the game spoilers real? Fo' real real?
They spoiled the whole thing in a ******* game!? I guess they really don't give a shit anymore..

Quote:
^So you want to watch a war show without deaths? They are on war, whatever significance they have on the show, they can be killed anytime.

This is still a fictional story. Any story, regardless of genre, needs to be realistic (within the context of the universe) and most of all, believable. And of course the death of an importent character makes the climax even more exiting, but this should not be the motive to kill of characters randomly.

It's not about which character dies or how many, but it's about how and why. A death scene in any kind of writing needs to be relevent in relation to the story and obviously, well written. it's equally important as the introduction of the character, if not more. Just like how a screenplay is divided into setups; characters, whatever they are flat or round characters they have character arcs. the last part of the arc can not end with: 'And then he just died!'

Realism can not be an excuse for poor writing. I hope the Age writers get at least this one right.
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Old 2012-09-01, 14:19   Link #2962
Znozzy
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Sofar, what has the AGE writers gotten *right* ?
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Old 2012-09-01, 15:36   Link #2963
Raysoul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
So are the game spoilers real? Fo' real real?
They spoiled the whole thing in a ******* game!? I guess they really don't give a shit anymore..




This is still a fictional story. Any story, regardless of genre, needs to be realistic (within the context of the universe) and most of all, believable. And of course the death of an importent character makes the climax even more exiting, but this should not be the motive to kill of characters randomly.

It's not about which character dies or how many, but it's about how and why. A death scene in any kind of writing needs to be relevent in relation to the story and obviously, well written. it's equally important as the introduction of the character, if not more. Just like how a screenplay is divided into setups; characters, whatever they are flat or round characters they have character arcs. the last part of the arc can not end with: 'And then he just died!'

Realism can not be an excuse for poor writing. I hope the Age writers get at least this one right.
So how should they die?

As what I have read:

-Fram still hopes Zeheart to change, sacrifices herself
-Zanald is a bad guy
-Obright SACRIFICES himself to save Diva
-Seric told Natora to fire even he is on the line of fire

They are all side characters. Motives are enough, but not too flashy. Do all characters need flashy deaths? Tell me a war related anime that has all characters dying characters has a flashy death.

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Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
Sofar, what has the AGE writers gotten *right* ?
It depends if you think the writers have done right or wrong. Not all things will favor in the viewer's perspective, as it is a storytelling by the writers.
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Old 2012-09-01, 17:47   Link #2964
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Raysoul View Post
So how should they die?

As what I have read:

-Fram still hopes Zeheart to change, sacrifices herself
-Zanald is a bad guy
-Obright SACRIFICES himself to save Diva
-Seric told Natora to fire even he is on the line of fire

They are all side characters. Motives are enough, but not too flashy. Do all characters need flashy deaths? Tell me a war related anime that has all characters dying characters has a flashy death.
....what are you talking about? I was explaining why i think your statement 'anyone can die anytime, cuz this is realistic war bro!' is wrong. because this is not a documentary, but fiction writing. I didn't say anything about Age, as the last few episodes are probably still in production (And I still don't know if those spoilers are true or not).

And as for your question regarding 'flashy deaths' (whatever the f*k that means): no they don't have be "flashy", do they have to be relevant: Hell yes!
If you still don't understand, read my previous post again.

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Originally Posted by Raysoul View Post
It depends if you think the writers have done right or wrong. Not all things will favor in the viewer's perspective, as it is a storytelling by the writers.
I think he is trying to say that Age is not particularly wel written..

The writers can write whatever they want. And we can say whatever we want about the writing.
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Old 2012-09-01, 18:06   Link #2965
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Well.. Writing is not the strong point of Gundam Age anyway. but it has it's good point too. And as far as the deaths are concerned I never really cared about those characters anyway, lol. My favorite character lives though! YAAYY!!;D
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Old 2012-09-01, 18:20   Link #2966
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
....what are you talking about? I was explaining why i think your statement 'anyone can die anytime, cuz this is realistic war bro!' is wrong. because this is not a documentary, but fiction writing. I didn't say anything about Age, as the last few episodes are probably still in production (And I still don't know if those spoilers are true or not).

And as for your question regarding 'flashy deaths' (whatever the f*k that means): no they don't have be "flashy", do they have to be relevant: Hell yes!
If you still don't understand, read my previous post again.
I didn't say this is a realistic war. I am just referring to Meltyred ranting why every side-character dies. Even in a fictional, story-telling scenario, anyone could die. I can agree with you that someone's death shouldn't be pointless and should be relevant, but I think AGE has good/adequate reasons to kill off their characters. It's not like they are just being killed by a grunt or something.
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Old 2012-09-01, 18:25   Link #2967
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Originally Posted by Raysoul View Post
It depends if you think the writers have done right or wrong. Not all things will favor in the viewer's perspective, as it is a storytelling by the writers.
True, True, but if the story doesnt add up or how character development proceeds nor the pacing makes any sense. Then it makes the story bad, doesnt it?
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Old 2012-09-01, 18:43   Link #2968
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I personally think AGE isn't bad. I can say it would be on par (or above) with 00 or SEED (not Destiny), which is Good (or bad if you really have high standards). (Yeah, disregard my signature).

Knowing that this would be 49-50 episode anime which revolves around a 100 year war, I have already set my expectations that this would include several timeskips, inconsistent pacing, and few character development for side characters. Still. I think they have developed the main characters enough.

Talking about how they executed the story, I think they took an unorthodox approach (3 generation), which apparently (or wierdly), still appeals to me.

My only gripe with this series is the inconsistent animation quality. Some are bad (specially Gen-1), but others are really good (Zeydra vs AGE-2).
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Old 2012-09-01, 19:09   Link #2969
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Originally Posted by Raysoul View Post
I personally think AGE isn't bad.
Yeah I saw that in your sig!

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I can say it would be on par (or above) with 00 or SEED (not Destiny), which is Good (or bad if you really have high standards).
Not even close I think.. Seed and 00 are better. (Excluding that shitty Movie)
I think Age is on the same leven of WTF-ness as Gundam Seed Destiny, But Destiny has great music and Durandal, the best Gundam villain ever! (Because he actually made sense)

Quote:
Knowing that this would be 49-50 episode anime which revolves around a 100 year war, I have already set my expectations that this would include several timeskips, inconsistent pacing, and few character development for side characters. Still. I think they have developed the main characters enough.
this is not a 50 ep show, it's not a 100 year war, there is no such thing as good pacing in Age... But I think you are right about the character development. One of the good things about Age.

Quote:
Talking about how they executed the story, I think they took an unorthodox approach (3 generation), which apparently (or wierdly), still appeals to me.
The idea is nice, but the execution is mhee...

Quote:
My only gripe with this series is the inconsistent animation quality. Some are bad (specially Gen-1), but others are really good (Zeydra vs AGE-2).
I like the animation of age. It's good. better than Gundam Seed and Destiny, but not Gundam 00 and the new Seed remaster.
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Old 2012-09-01, 19:46   Link #2970
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Originally Posted by Rickketik View Post
this is not a 50 ep show, it's not a 100 year war, there is no such thing as good pacing in Age...
What? This is a 50 (or 49 according to spoilers) show, and the war lasted 100 years (according to the games).
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Old 2012-09-01, 19:53   Link #2971
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All I ask is that characters remain consistent and that their decisions make sense when contrasted with their development throughout the series. Zeheart becoming a cheapo version of Giren, Patrick Zala, or Ribbons doesn't make any sense when you look at his development all throughout Gen 2. Hell that's just as bad, if not worse than Durandal in Destiny, that goes from being a decent, reasonable guy to a madman who goes around blowing shit with a giant laser including his own troops. The villains I mentioned earlier all used similar weapons, but they slowly got to that point, they made increasingly irrational and/or evil decisions. Let's look at Patrick Zala for example, he doesn't just go from loving father one episode to genocidal mad man...No, he starts out small, making comments here and there, then he escalates and escalates up until he ends up doing what he does at the end. Zeheart just goes from completely opposing Ezelcant to accepting to carry out his will and forsaking everything he stands for in the span of a couple of minutes.... That's as if Patrick Zala had gone from talking with Siegel Clyne about Naturals to blowing up his own troops with Genesis without lying to the counsil about Spritbreak, bulding the NJCs, arresting Athrun, assassinating Siegel and trying to do the same to Lacus in between.
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Old 2012-09-01, 19:58   Link #2972
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I don't think the war is going to last 100 years in the anime. what year is it in the anime right now? 165? You right about the episode count, I forgot that it wasn't shortened after all. (It was rumored to be shortened on 4chan)

@Revolutionist: Not sure about the Zala comparison. It's not that bad. Zala was mad because of the death of his wife (and he was a racist from the start anyway.) And Ribbons had some bug up his ass or something.. Zeheart is a better character than that.

Last edited by Rickketik; 2012-09-01 at 20:10.
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Old 2012-09-01, 20:03   Link #2973
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If the spoiler about the Mars Rays shielding is correct then yes the war lasted 100 years. Keep in mind, though, that it's not been pure conflict for the 70 or so years the Vagans have been active--from what I understand there's a fairly sizable gap in hostilities between gen 2 and gen 3 due to the invasion plan. The war likely doesn't come to an official end until then, but a ceasefire agreement would mean that there's no major engagenments between the two after the La Glamis operation.

And am I the only one who isn't bothered by the route Zeheart's going down? To me it looks like he's letting the Gundam's power and Ezelcant's words go to his head, and his X-Rounder abilities probably aren't helping in that regard, looking back on all the other X-Rounders' reckless decisions and madness. It was bound to happen to him sooner or later.
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Old 2012-09-01, 20:31   Link #2974
Raysoul
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
And am I the only one who isn't bothered by the route Zeheart's going down? To me it looks like he's letting the Gundam's power and Ezelcant's words go to his head, and his X-Rounder abilities probably aren't helping in that regard, looking back on all the other X-Rounders' reckless decisions and madness. It was bound to happen to him sooner or later.
I also don't get bothered much by Zeheart's route. I am also glad that he gets killed by his friend Asemu, and not by Kio.

But I'm wondering what really happens on the remaining 30 years? I guess it's ok for now since it can give room for a movie or another season (which I doubt because of the reception).
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Old 2012-09-01, 20:43   Link #2975
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Considering where Zeheart is going, he should be killed by one of his subordinates for being a giant tool. hell Flit, or even Kio would be better choice than Asemu, if the Super Pilot crap wasn't annoying already, I can't imagine after it happens.
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Old 2012-09-01, 23:26   Link #2976
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Originally Posted by Raysoul View Post
So how should they die?

As what I have read:

-Fram still hopes Zeheart to change, sacrifices herself
-Zanald is a bad guy
-Obright SACRIFICES himself to save Diva
-Seric told Natora to fire even he is on the line of fire

They are all side characters. Motives are enough, but not too flashy. Do all characters need flashy deaths? Tell me a war related anime that has all characters dying characters has a flashy death.



It depends if you think the writers have done right or wrong. Not all things will favor in the viewer's perspective, as it is a storytelling by the writers.
For the 1st death, I already said it in a previous post.
For zanald, well whatever he should die one way or another (though this point makes him spying on Zeheart and Ezelcant's talk about Project Eden pointless.)
Obright's death is the only one that is fine, kinda.
Seric basically fights a giant eyeball, suddenly is disabled. And then what you said happens.
It's not even known whether the Giant eyeball is blown up or not, he just suddenly disappears after the fight.
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Old 2012-09-02, 00:36   Link #2977
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what about Zeheart, what does he say?
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Old 2012-09-02, 03:59   Link #2978
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what about Zeheart, what does he say?
Pretty much ends up... unresolved.
Or if you think getting Zanald caught in the beam by La gramis a resolution, with Zanald not showing any form of threat to Zeheart whatsoever.
It was just weird, he didn't even give a warning.
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Old 2012-09-02, 04:14   Link #2979
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This is unnecessarily convoluted character development for the show like AGE, given that his effect on overall plot turns out to be almost non-existent. Show wasted too much time to bulid up the character who in the end turns to be just a punchbag for the minor protagonist. Writers should have stuck with one of the character archetypes and either made him Zeheart the Honorable Guy or Zeheart the Crazy Zealot. If he is good guy, he doesn't lead attacks on civilians. If he is not, he doesn't sacrifice himself to shield friend from asteroid. Not saying that he should be one-dimensional, just act accordingly his established personality. They decided to mix thing up, and result is illogical, inconsistent and on the whole ruined character.
I have to completely disagree here - there is no inconsistency in an Honorable Guy (to his in group) who supports a crazy ideal - look at Gato for instances and nobody would say Gato is an "inconsistent character" even though his honourable way inevitably led to millions of people starving (Operation Stardust) and he essentially supports the UC universe's version of Hilter. They are people in real life who do terrible things with good intentions, Zeheart is merely such a character. I fully believe that even amongst the ranks of Nazis there probably exists a very caring captain who looks after his subordinates but still goes around rounding up Jews to the concentration camps - humans ARE like that because people are not perfectly rational and sometimes cannot see that they do things which are actually in conflict. You can even turn on the TV and look at the US political situation right now - pick a few of those Tea Party supports and see the same thing - they think they are doing good for the country with methods that are misguided and end up appearing racists/misogynist etc but they themselves don't actually know it. It is VERY common amongst humans. Pure Gihren/Hilter-type evil or pure pacifist/honourable is actually rare - that's why those types of people stands out in history. Zeheart is merely a soldier, again he has no ideals of his own but just carrying out Ezelcant's ideals - he was NOT a person with his own ideal nor the bigger vision to come up with his own path - it is actually consistent that he does things just in the name of Ezelcant. Comparing Zeheart to actual lead evil characters like Durendal/Patrick Zala/Gihren is already missing the point - Zeheart ISN'T like them because he NEVER came up with the ideal in the first place, it was ALL Ezelcant's doings. Zeheart was just an extension of Ezelcant, so you cannot say Zeheart had a convoluted change of character because 90% of the time he was just doing Ezelcant's biddings without thinking critically of the situation himself.

I think people thinking that because Zeheart is honourable in some areas means he can't make mistakes in supporting a crazy like Ezelcant is actually the ones disconnected with how people REALLY works and trying to blame it as inconsistent characterisation is being naive.
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Last edited by houkoholic; 2012-09-02 at 04:29.
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Old 2012-09-02, 05:18   Link #2980
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Considering where Zeheart is going, he should be killed by one of his subordinates for being a giant tool. hell Flit, or even Kio would be better choice than Asemu, if the Super Pilot crap wasn't annoying already, I can't imagine after it happens.
Asemu is literally the only person he ever knew, and his only ever friend. What's so unfitting about Asemu having to be the one to put him down? There are only two characters in the series (maybe three) who would be satisfying to see finish Zeheart. They are Zanald because of his long known discontent with him, Asemu for his friendship with him, and maybe that Zera dude because Zeheart took his place as ruler and he might be envious about it (but it seems they won't be going that direction with Zera's character).

Nobody else makes sense, or would be even remotely satisfying to watch in my opinion.
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