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Old 2012-09-02, 05:07   Link #181
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
How one makes of this statement is his own decision. Ichiki might be sincere about this or he could be under order to downplay the issue for fear of losing his job. At least we get a comment from the victim now. The timing between the blog entry and the official apology is kind of uncanny though.
That's exactly what I figured would happen -- he would make a statement, and then people would assume he's being pressured into lying. The fact that he at admitted that he didn't know beforehand lends to the credibility of the statement in my view.

Given the amount of people who are purportedly involved with this, I tend to believe that the primary lapse in judgement was in not letting him in on the joke. I tend to believe that a lot of the people involved would have assumed that he knew, since this was part of the official PR campaign. If he had just have been told about it in the first place, none of this mess would have happened. I am supposing this is just someone's idea of "making it more realistic", without really thinking through how it could be taken.

Anyway, I think the damage has been done now. We'll see if the Internet lets it rest with this.
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Old 2012-09-02, 05:23   Link #182
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Wow, there's trolling, and then there's just pure douchebaggery.

That's so not cool and honestly I can't see the humor in at of all. Why would you humiliate someone like that to the public without their consent?

Someone must stand up and take responsibility for this. An apology and compensation is only fair.
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Old 2012-09-02, 05:33   Link #183
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I actually think that this whole thing was indeed blown out of proportion by the internet brigade, at least in the sense that it went beyond what the victim wanted. As I see it, stuff like this is pretty much part and parcel of any entertainment industry. Apart from the live-octopus-on-a-person's-head incident that I mentioned in an earlier post, I've seen other stuff on Taiwanese shows such as a rising TV host being forced to kiss someone's armpit and other stuff. That's not to say that stuff like these is right or wrong, but that's how I perceive the industry to be in general since there's hundreds of shows, thousands of aspiring celebrities, and limited spotlight.
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Old 2012-09-02, 05:42   Link #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
I actually think that this whole thing was indeed blown out of proportion by the internet brigade, at least in the sense that it went beyond what the victim wanted. As I see it, stuff like this is pretty much part and parcel of any entertainment industry. Apart from the live-octopus-on-a-person's-head incident that I mentioned in an earlier post, I've seen other stuff on Taiwanese shows such as a rising TV host being forced to kiss someone's armpit and other stuff. That's not to say that stuff like these is right or wrong, but that's how I perceive the industry to be in general since there's hundreds of shows, thousands of aspiring celebrities, and limited spotlight.
I'm pretty sure they get paid for doing stuff like that. I don't think most would do it for free.

Sure, you may want to take some humiliation for a chance of rising higher but it's being done for a reason and not just because it's part of the industry.
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Old 2012-09-02, 05:52   Link #185
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^No, in that particular incident, the TV host was a guest in another variety show, so he probably wasn't paid. It just so happens that that particular show attracted quite high viewership, so the guests, mostly rising stars, participate in all those embarrassing activities.

The way I see it, rising higher is exactly what the industry is about. As I said, hundreds of shows, thousands of actors, but very few spotlights available.
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Old 2012-09-02, 06:00   Link #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
^No, in that particular incident, the TV host was a guest in another variety show, so he probably wasn't paid. It just so happens that that particular show attracted quite high viewership, so the guests, mostly rising stars, participate in all those embarrassing activities.

The way I see it, rising higher is exactly what the industry is about. As I said, hundreds of shows, thousands of actors, but very few spotlights available.
The nature of a variety show frequently involves often silly and slapstick situations. Thus, it's a given that if you appear that this stuff can and will happen.

Furthermore, the damage dealt here goes far beyond a simple physical prank that can just be shrugged off.
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Old 2012-09-02, 06:19   Link #187
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It happens not just in variety shows. I've seen pranks being played on the news as well, but the point I'm making is that this happens a lot in the entertainment industry for the sake of grabbing some limelight. Ichiki himself also stated in his blog entry that it's part of the job.

As to the second statement, that's also why I consider this whole incident to have been blown out of proportion by the internet brigade. If the incident had simply been allowed to lay low, it would only be known by a select few such as Sugita. But now that it's all over the internet, his reputation is absolutely tarnished. Ichiki will forever be marked as a guy who can't take a joke and rebels against the animation studio he's working for. Which director would want to hire him now?
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Old 2012-09-02, 06:35   Link #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
It happens not just in variety shows. I've seen pranks being played on the news as well, but the point I'm making is that this happens a lot in the entertainment industry for the sake of grabbing some limelight. Ichiki himself also stated in his blog entry that it's part of the job.
My point is that the nature of certain shows where pranking is acceptable, that one is willing to accept the risk of such. However, this isn't one of them; the degree of this prank is beyond that of throwing a pie in someone's face.

Quote:
As to the second statement, that's also why I consider this whole incident to have been blown out of proportion by the internet brigade. If the incident had simply been allowed to lay low, it would only be known by a select few such as Sugita. But now that it's all over the internet, his reputation is absolutely tarnished. Ichiki will forever be marked as a guy who can't take a joke and rebels against the animation studio he's working for. Which director would want to hire him now?
Perhaps a director with professionalism and integrity.

And yes, the internet has blown it out of proportion. Perhaps whoever thought of this should have considered the nature of the internet.

One with a brain to not diffuse the blame on the victim. "Can't take a joke?" "Rebels?" I can't imagine it'd be read as this. If said person had aggressively complained and campaigned it would certainly reduce his value.

Yes, the internet has blown it out of proportion. Perhaps whoever thought of this should have considered the nature of the internet.
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Old 2012-09-02, 06:42   Link #189
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This all seems very weak to me - a pathetic attempt to try and recast what happened in a less incriminating light. I really don't think most people are going to buy it, and in fact it just increases the contempt I feel for the perps - even now that they've been caught red-handed - on video no less - they won't own up. They're still trying to pretend it's all a misunderstanding. Public figures just never learn - it's rarely the act that ruins you, it's the coverup.

In terms of Kokoro Connect "overcoming" this, I'm not sure what that even means. It wasn't going to sell well, and it wasn't going to have a second season either way. I think it'll finish airing and probably see all the extra eps finished, so in the end I don't think this will have mattered for the show apart from a few hundred fewer discs sold. I hope it doesn't effect the writer and illustrator, who had nothing to do with any of it. The ones who may not "overcome" this are Yamanaka and the two VAs directly involved - their careers may well suffer for this, and they probably should. I don't think their careers should end as a result, but they certainly have no basis to complain if work gets a little harder to come by for a while.
relentlessflame might be correct though that some of the people involved might have thought it was a planned publicity stunt that Ichiki was in on.

At this point I think there is only one way for them to sell the claim that it was a publicity stunt and not bullying- that's if they do introduce the "fake" character in episode 14 and have Ichiki play him. "See, it was a publicity stunt all along, and happy endings for everyone."
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Old 2012-09-02, 06:43   Link #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
My point is that the nature of certain shows where pranking is acceptable, that one is willing to accept the risk of such. However, this isn't one of them; the degree of this prank is beyond that of throwing a pie in someone's face.
And I disagree with that. As I said, I see this as part of the entertainment industry as a whole, so the risk is inherent with the job, which is also the viewpoint taken by the victim himself.

Quote:
Perhaps a director with professionalism and integrity.

And yes, the internet has blown it out of proportion. Perhaps whoever thought of this should have considered the nature of the internet.
The issue is not about ideals of professionalism or integrity. The issue goes down to what I said earlier about there being too many aspiring actors and limited spotlight, or in the case of the anime industry, limited positions available. Given that the the victim is a B-lister, the explosion of this incident will only serve as a black mark on him, and gives little reason for him to be hired when there's hundreds, even thousands of other B-list VAs waiting in line.
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Old 2012-09-02, 06:51   Link #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
And I disagree with that. As I said, I see this as part of the entertainment industry as a whole, so the risk is inherent with the job, which is also the viewpoint taken by the victim himself.
I think the degree does matter.

There has to be limits established and there's a certain point where it is no longer just "pranking". Not everything is fair game to do.
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Old 2012-09-02, 06:59   Link #192
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Well all I can say is I've seen worse. Again, I'm not making a normative statement about whether it's right or wrong, just making an observation that the industry has developed in that fashion.

Either way, I hope this whole thing dies down soon. Ichiki's indicated that he was disappointed but willing to take it in stride, and what I gather is that he too wants to move on from the incident. Hopefully other studios will learn not to pull such stuff again, and I'm still going to hold on to what little hope there is of Kokoro Connect Season 2
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Old 2012-09-02, 07:03   Link #193
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Bullying at the place where people work is pretty common everywhere in the world and it's not different in japan.
While i am not defending what people have done to Ichiki, i do find that this whole situation has been overblown by the internet.
The damage done by the people on the internet has made it worse for everyone who are both involved (including Ichiki, because i do think that he will be hired even less for work because of this)and some who aren't even related to this.
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Old 2012-09-02, 07:03   Link #194
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Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Well all I can say is I've seen worse. Again, I'm not making a normative statement about whether it's right or wrong, just making an observation that the industry has developed in that fashion.

Either way, I hope this whole thing dies down soon. Ichiki's indicated that he was disappointed but willing to take it in stride, and what I gather is that he too wants to move on from the incident. Hopefully other studios will learn not to pull such stuff again, and I'm still going to hold on to what little hope there is of Kokoro Connect Season 2
You may not be making a statement about right and wrong, but I am. ;p

Wasn't this done in front of an audience? From the OP it looks like it was streamed on NicoNico. So how few is the select few anyways to keep it low-key and not let it leak out anyways?
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Old 2012-09-02, 07:06   Link #195
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Viral marketing gone wrong. But hey, any publicity is better than no publicity right? lol
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Old 2012-09-02, 07:08   Link #196
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Viral marketing gone wrong. But hey, any publicity is good publicity right? lol
Depends on how you spin it. Maybe if they did it a goodhearted, reconciling way, we would not have a bitter feel and just brush it off.

However, judging by how they responded, they pretty much spun it the wrong way, into their own crotches, to be exact.
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Old 2012-09-02, 07:23   Link #197
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I'm starting to feel people are unrealistically placing way too much undue responsibilities upon people now.
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Old 2012-09-02, 07:48   Link #198
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That's exactly what I figured would happen -- he would make a statement, and then people would assume he's being pressured into lying. The fact that he at admitted that he didn't know beforehand lends to the credibility of the statement in my view.

Given the amount of people who are purportedly involved with this, I tend to believe that the primary lapse in judgement was in not letting him in on the joke. I tend to believe that a lot of the people involved would have assumed that he knew, since this was part of the official PR campaign. If he had just have been told about it in the first place, none of this mess would have happened. I am supposing this is just someone's idea of "making it more realistic", without really thinking through how it could be taken.

Anyway, I think the damage has been done now. We'll see if the Internet lets it rest with this.
Sorry I don't buy it based on things that were said before they were caught.

There were some nasty comments said about Ichiki

" It was a big impact, I didn't think seeing the moment a person crumbles would be so beautiful".

And I believe there was also a comment about how some people will do anything to work in the anime industry even though they will never get a main part.


This apology very much seems like they are just trying to save face and don't actually care what they did.

As for Ichiki being forced to say what he did I am not sure. I can see he might be embarrassed by the whole situation and wants it over with, but his responses and so forth before this whole thing blew up also don't seem like "he wasn't upset". Sugita Tomokazu also didn't seem to think it was just some "silly prank".



And yes I understand that pranks are common (although in general I am not a big fan) but this prank got someone's hope up that they had a job and then publicly humiliated him. I don't think the reaction to this incident is over blown at all.

I think unfortunately how some fans are handling it (bringing in people who are not even involved) is quite awful but I am glad that in general fans are saying "we don't like this this type of prank and it shouldn't be tolerated".
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Old 2012-09-02, 08:37   Link #199
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Anyway, I think the damage has been done now. We'll see if the Internet lets it rest with this.
Indeed. While the dust might have more or less settled, the way things are handled leaves a lot to be desired and will left many unconvinced since more than a few crucial individual have yet to give their accounts. The reprecussion will go beyond the surface if the silence remain.
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Old 2012-09-02, 08:39   Link #200
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Reading about all this has left quite a sour taste in my mouth, especially as I was enjoying Kokoro Connect.

I think you cannot really compare it to other normal variety shows where people get embarassed. They give consent, know what they are getting themselves into and the types of joke are normally trivial in its nature and disconnected from meaningful subjects.

Actively depicting someone and making fun of how he hasn't done well in his chosen field, esepcially as he had no knowledge of all this, is just not on no matter where you are in the world.

The comments from Terashima and Kanemoto aftewards just makes this all sound as it was carried out in a more malicious manner and makes it more into bullying.

With how the website statement purports to read and how they are seem to be saying that they did nothing wrong, there just seems to be no reflection from them.

Hopefully the author and light novel will be differentiated from this.
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