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Old 2012-09-04, 09:33   Link #2201
Javiersansano
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarCell View Post
Which novel do you think Kirito is the most badass in?

Spoiler for ggo, fairy dance, mother's rosario don't read if you didn't finish:


Haven't finished Alicization yet, but I have a feeling he'll be badass in it too.
And his fight against the salamander general wasn't badass?
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Old 2012-09-04, 10:05   Link #2202
StellarCell
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And his fight against the salamander general wasn't badass?
Ah true, I missed that..
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Old 2012-09-04, 10:13   Link #2203
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Spoiler for Best Battle:
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Old 2012-09-04, 10:59   Link #2204
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Originally Posted by richardtengcy View Post
Spoiler for Best Battle:
Spoiler for reply:
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Old 2012-09-04, 11:06   Link #2205
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Spoiler for Best Battle:
Spoiler for yeah...:
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Old 2012-09-04, 11:13   Link #2206
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Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
Spoiler for yeah...:
Spoiler for Kirito vs Yuuki:
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Old 2012-09-04, 11:19   Link #2207
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Spoiler for reply:
Spoiler for reply:
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Old 2012-09-04, 11:38   Link #2208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarCell View Post
Spoiler for reply:
The reason Yuuki can beat Kirito is that she "lived" out the fight which gives her the speed surpassing normal people who only dives in. In that case she was superior to Kirito in her censoric control since she's using a full-body full-dive machine.
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Old 2012-09-04, 11:39   Link #2209
willx
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So, I just had a thought about the latest arc, Alicization, that I couldn't quite suspend my disbelief and wasn't sure if anyone had the same feeling..

Basically the author has stated that the premise that the gov't is trying to design "bottom-up AI" so that they can be used for military purposes and that's the whole reason UW was developed and all this other stuff. That's the setting. Fine.. -- Except I don't buy it.

Why would you need "bottom-up AI" for this? Actually, it's the opposite, you'd want AI that would mimic a "perfect soldier" nothing more, nothing less. A full "bottom-up AI" for military purposes is actually worse.. It's like adding extra/unknown factors to a tool like a "drill" and making it unpredictable.. That's like the absolute OPPOSITE of what the military wants..
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Old 2012-09-04, 12:08   Link #2210
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Because sometimes a perfect soldier must think outside the box on the battlefield and react to unexpected situations. That's where traditional AI might make a mistake due to lack of information, but a "true" AI would be able to make the best call given what it knows.
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Old 2012-09-04, 12:13   Link #2211
richardtengcy
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
So, I just had a thought about the latest arc, Alicization, that I couldn't quite suspend my disbelief and wasn't sure if anyone had the same feeling..

Basically the author has stated that the premise that the gov't is trying to design "bottom-up AI" so that they can be used for military purposes and that's the whole reason UW was developed and all this other stuff. That's the setting. Fine.. -- Except I don't buy it.

Why would you need "bottom-up AI" for this? Actually, it's the opposite, you'd want AI that would mimic a "perfect soldier" nothing more, nothing less. A full "bottom-up AI" for military purposes is actually worse.. It's like adding extra/unknown factors to a tool like a "drill" and making it unpredictable.. That's like the absolute OPPOSITE of what the military wants..
Kind of remind me of Skynet in terminator....gaining self-awareness and fighting against human that creates them. I am totally against using "bottom-up" AI in weapons but if used on bots like personal maid or something, I wouldn`t mind. Something like a cross-references to "CHOBIT"
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Old 2012-09-04, 12:21   Link #2212
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Originally Posted by StellarCell View Post
Which novel do you think Kirito is the most badass in?
This is a really tough call. Kirito is simply badass everywhere he appears (and he knows Kung Fu). For me, it's a toss-up between GGO and SAO, but if you had to pin me down I'd vote for GGO.
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Old 2012-09-04, 12:26   Link #2213
Netto Azure
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Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
Because sometimes a perfect soldier must think outside the box on the battlefield and react to unexpected situations. That's where traditional AI might make a mistake due to lack of information, but a "true" AI would be able to make the best call given what it knows.
This is it pretty much. They just want to basically replace soldiers in the battlefield, and as per the traditional limits of Top-Down AI's they can't make calls outside of "their programmed parameter" so to speak.
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Old 2012-09-04, 12:32   Link #2214
willx
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Originally Posted by Netto Azure View Post
This is it pretty much. They just want to basically replace soldiers in the battlefield, and as per the traditional limits of Top-Down AI's they can't make calls outside of "their programmed parameter" so to speak.
I understand what you're saying, but it's just not convincing. I'm saying the military wouldn't want "uncertain" tools. A "top-down AI" designed to emulate a perfectly trained and disciplined soldier, utilized in aerial drones is probably ideal.

You might think otherwise, but practically speaking an army is only effective when it's soldiers don't individually make decisions or ask too many questions.

EDITED: I meant "top down"

Last edited by willx; 2012-09-04 at 12:56.
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Old 2012-09-04, 12:41   Link #2215
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Originally Posted by richardtengcy View Post
Kind of remind me of Skynet in terminator....gaining self-awareness and fighting against human that creates them. I am totally against using "bottom-up" AI in weapons but if used on bots like personal maid or something, I wouldn`t mind. Something like a cross-references to "CHOBIT"
and once they achieve sentience, it would be call slavery.

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The Eve Online meta-game is fairly vile with denial of service attacks on player's IP during important moments, spying on Skype conversations, sending someone over to flip the power circuit off... but even there you're unlikely to actually kill a player over a MMO game.

But then again, you certainly do get the rare unhinged gamer who can't differentiate real from virtual who kill their fellow gamer over pixels. So it's certainly a viable threat. Having said that though, the odds of a random MMO gamer being able to stop a unhinged crazy from killing him with a gun when either plugged into a VR world, or not, is probably about the same.
i thought about playing EVE since i like trade stimulation games mix with piracy. but just don't have the time for it.

PS. anyone know of a game similar to EVE but for offline (not mmog).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronelm2000 View Post
Plus the fact that I said "premise". But why did we need to disclose important spoilers?
because this is a tread for LN discussion with a "spoiler at your own risk" warning.
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Old 2012-09-04, 12:49   Link #2216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
I understand what you're saying, but it's just not convincing. I'm saying the military wouldn't want "uncertain" tools. A bottom-up AI designed to emulate a perfectly trained and disciplined soldier, utilized in aerial drones is probably ideal.

You might think otherwise, but practically speaking an army is only effective when it's soldiers don't individually make decisions or ask too many questions.
I agree this is practically asking for an extremely intelligent AI to "go rogue". High Command doesn't want any involvement with something with a fairly significant propensity to go off task. But then again depending on the mission it might just be a spec ops weapons they'll drop into a hot zone with no hope of recovering it, just to let it cause damage.
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Old 2012-09-04, 13:02   Link #2217
Krono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
I understand what you're saying, but it's just not convincing. I'm saying the military wouldn't want "uncertain" tools. A "top-down AI" designed to emulate a perfectly trained and disciplined soldier, utilized in aerial drones is probably ideal.

You might think otherwise, but practically speaking an army is only effective when it's soldiers don't individually make decisions or ask too many questions.

EDITED: I meant "top down"
The thing is, they're essentially looking to replace fighter pilots with AIs. To do that they would need to be as smart, and flexible as fighter pilots, which would basically require a bottom-up AI.
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Old 2012-09-04, 14:11   Link #2218
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
The thing is, they're essentially looking to replace fighter pilots with AIs. To do that they would need to be as smart, and flexible as fighter pilots, which would basically require a bottom-up AI.
But such and AI is conscious of its own existence, so it knows it could die in combat like a human pilot does. Besides, why would sentient AIs fight a war for humans? What do they get in return? And if they are forced they would know they are forced, which means they would turn on us at any time.

So there's no way that would work. It's a perfect recipe for disaster waiting to happen.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-09-04 at 15:10.
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Old 2012-09-04, 15:21   Link #2219
NoirX
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But such and AI is conscious of its own existence, so it knows it could die in combat like a human pilot does. Besides, why would sentient AIs fight a war for humans? What do they get in return? And if they are forced they would know they are forced, which means they would turn on us at any time.

So there's no way that would work. It's a perfect recipe for disaster waiting to happen.
If the AIs turn on the humans, they could be simply dealt with deletion. No matter where the AIs are, they are connected to the main operation system that will control them so if they rebel it'd be noticeable and could be dealt with.
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Old 2012-09-04, 15:28   Link #2220
Kazu-kun
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If the AIs turn on the humans, they could be simply dealt with deletion.
If I'm a sentient AI and I'm being forced to do something under threat of deletion, that means I'm a slave. And slaves would ultimately fight for their freedom at some point, one way or another. It's a certainty of the world.

Like I said, however you look at it, it just wouldn't work. It would be Matrix all over again.
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