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Old 2012-09-04, 06:46   Link #121
Ridwan
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
He wished to see the ends of the Earth which he thought was only 1000k away... that's what I think.... damn... he may end up seeing his own end..
I'm saying this as a squeeling-fanboy of F/Z Iskandar myself, but let's not confuse him with the real life version

Of course, his desire to see the corner of the earth was OTL, but in the end he decided to retreat. We can assume that he had any intention to return to India later, but he had a lot of problems on his hands already, primarily concerning the succession issue, which IOTL he didn't really manage to accomplish...
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Old 2012-09-04, 06:48   Link #122
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Originally Posted by Aegir View Post

Of course, his desire to see the corner of the earth was OTL, but in the end he decided to retreat. We can assume that he had any intention to return to India later, but he had a lot of problems on his hands already, primarily concerning the succession issue, which IOTL he didn't really manage to accomplish...
He left one heir.... his son...
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Old 2012-09-04, 06:54   Link #123
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He left one heir.... his son...
An ungroomed infant son which had not gathered the sufficient experience to manage anything. Succession isn't only about siring a kid, especially in an empire as vast and drastic as Iskandar's....
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Old 2012-09-04, 07:01   Link #124
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Originally Posted by Aegir View Post
An ungroomed infant son which had not gathered the sufficient experience to manage anything. Succession isn't only about siring a kid, especially in an empire as vast and drastic as Iskandar's....
Sad... Alexander's too sick to choose who will be his successor... "they're all awesome and loyal me.. especially Ptolemy, muah!!!!!!!"
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Old 2012-09-04, 07:32   Link #125
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Sad... Alexander's too sick to choose who will be his successor... "they're all awesome and loyal me.. especially Ptolemy, muah!!!!!!!"
Even if Alexander had lived longer enough to raise and educate his son to sufficient comptency, I doubt Argaead Empire could've lasted longer then 3 generations, Alexander's included. It was too large and drastic to last so long, especially with its practice of planting greek communities here and there as the nails of the state, compared to the previous persian practice of multi-cultural cooptation. But if one generation has proven to be enough to spread Hellenic culture to the east and increase west-east interconnection, imagine what 2 additional more could've made...
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Old 2012-09-04, 08:53   Link #126
DonQuigleone
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You can't really blame Alexander for not resolving the succession. The guy died at 33, his wife was pregnant, and really he couldn't have expected to die at such a young age.

He died before his time. Who knows where else he could have conquered had he survived?
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Old 2012-09-04, 08:58   Link #127
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You can't really blame Alexander for not resolving the succession. The guy died at 33, his wife was pregnant, and really he couldn't have expected to die at such a young age.

He died before his time. Who knows where else he could have conquered had he survived?
He could've survived longer indeed, but I don't think it will enable him to conquer much more. Perhaps he will go for Arabia, which if the campaign will end up satisfactory, he will then go for retesting his fortune in India where he will end up failing and finally content with what he has achieved already, or dying.
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Old 2012-09-04, 11:42   Link #128
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He could've survived longer indeed, but I don't think it will enable him to conquer much more. Perhaps he will go for Arabia, which if the campaign will end up satisfactory, he will then go for retesting his fortune in India where he will end up failing and finally content with what he has achieved already, or dying.
Yes, though there was also talk of an Italian or Sicilian expedition. I doubt he would have gone back to India.
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Old 2012-09-04, 13:07   Link #129
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Yes, though there was also talk of an Italian or Sicilian expedition. I doubt he would have gone back to India.
there was rest of Europe + North Africa.
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Old 2012-09-04, 14:25   Link #130
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there was rest of Europe + North Africa.
That would be interesting, though if we're talking about Alexander's time period, I'm not sure he would've been all too impressed by what he would be "conquering" in those places..

And speaking of the size and durability of his empire..

Effective logistics, communication and governance has remained the largest barrier to controlling and governing vast swathes of "conquered" territory even to this day. What made the Roman Empire so damn amazing was the public works, including road construction, which if I recall was not a particular strong point in Alexander's empire building.
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Old 2012-09-04, 14:41   Link #131
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That would be interesting, though if we're talking about Alexander's time period, I'm not sure he would've been all too impressed by what he would be "conquering" in those places..

And speaking of the size and durability of his empire..

Effective logistics, communication and governance has remained the largest barrier to controlling and governing vast swathes of "conquered" territory even to this day. What made the Roman Empire so damn amazing was the public works, including road construction, which if I recall was not a particular strong point in Alexander's empire building.
North Africa was pretty big with Carthage. i am surprise Alexander invade Egypt but left the rest of NA alone. The Roman also had a decent empire in Italy at the time.
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Old 2012-09-04, 14:43   Link #132
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A couple of more scenerios

1. if the Qin never unify China

2. If mongol empire never exist.

3. if the Native Americans were more hostile to illegal immigrants.

4. the Viking colony at Vinland actually manage to last.
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Old 2012-09-04, 15:05   Link #133
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The desert between Egypt and Carthage is sort of annoying to cross. Rome was still not all that large of a power yet. The First Punic War was about 60 years after Alexander died. They were fighting the Second Samnite War around that time. Rome controlled an area across the central part of modern day Italy.

The world in 323 BC at the time of Alexander's death.
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Old 2012-09-04, 16:51   Link #134
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
there was rest of Europe + North Africa.
Alexander aims to spread Greek culture to the civilized world that he knew.. I'm sure if he knew or had interest to the cutures of Carthage or the barbaric Europe.. But that's interesting actually...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
A couple of more scenerios

1. if the Qin never unify China
Hmmm... Zhao might have still last for a couple of years/decades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
2. If mongol empire never exist.
The Sung will extend for a couple of years.decades more. The Yuan Empire will never exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
3. if the Native Americans were more hostile to illegal immigrants.
The colonization might have been delayed by few years only. Guns are guns.

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4. the Viking colony at Vinland actually manage to last.
Canada will be Vinlandia and the people are Scandavian's in ancestry....
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Old 2012-09-04, 17:41   Link #135
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Alexander had already conquered most of the "civilized world" already, the main areas left would be Carthage, Rome, the Etruscans, and remaining unconquered Greek City states of Southern Italy/Sicily.

Also, I don't doubt that Alexander also would have been willing to conquer uncivilized areas as well. It would have been a lot more difficult though, as he wouldn't be able to take the place of a pre-existing power structure. Several years of his campaigns in Persia was spent on Afghanistan after all. I'm sure the prospect of conquering the Celts, Germans or Scythians held similar appeal.
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Old 2012-09-04, 17:46   Link #136
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Alexander had already conquered most of the "civilized world" already, the main areas left would be Carthage, Rome, the Etruscans, and remaining unconquered Greek City states of Southern Italy/Sicily.

Also, I don't doubt that Alexander also would have been willing to conquer uncivilized areas as well. It would have been a lot more difficult though, as he wouldn't be able to take the place of a pre-existing power structure. Several years of his campaigns in Persia was spent on Afghanistan after all. I'm sure the prospect of conquering the Celts, Germans or Scythians held similar appeal.
But the thick woods and swamps in the north ad it's vastness will tire his troops... besides there aren't many big cities but few small villages... and people might me more adapted in hunting rather than farming so food might be a problem as well....
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Old 2012-09-04, 20:08   Link #137
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I wonder what he would have done if he followed the trade route to Qin?



As for the Native American. It isn't "gun are guns", it is "smallpox is smallpox". That and other illnesses spread far in advance of the White Man. Often cleaning out a region a decade or so before any real exploration or settlers arrived. Remember that the Spanish came to Central America in 1520 to invade. You didn't have many settlers in places west of the Mississippi River or into California until the 1770s. So there was a good 150 years for the White Man's germs to spread across the continent long before the White Man decided to head into the interior, or hit the West Coast in any serious fashion.
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Old 2012-09-04, 21:01   Link #138
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any idea how big Alex's army was when he got to india? The City-States of the Warring State Period could field some impressive size army themselves.
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Old 2012-09-04, 21:10   Link #139
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
any idea how big Alex's army was when he got to india? The City-States of the Warring State Period could field some impressive size army themselves.
I'll try by famous battles with number of troops

Battle of River Granicus >>> around 47,000
Battle of Issus >>> around 41,000
Battle of Guagamela >>> around 47,000
Battle of Hydaspes (India) >>> around 11,000 only
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Old 2012-09-04, 21:19   Link #140
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Well at the Battle of the Hydaspes Alexander had an army of 11,000 against an Indian Amry that may have been over 55,000 strong with nearly 100 war elephants (or as small as 22,000 with 85 war elepants).

Alexander lost about 1,000 men. The Indians lost with at least 12,000 killed and 9,000 captured.
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