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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 46
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 5 17.86%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 7 25.00%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 7 25.00%
7 out of 10: Good... 6 21.43%
6 out of 10: Average... 1 3.57%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 1 3.57%
4 out of 10: Poor... 1 3.57%
3 out of 10: Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 0 0%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-04, 04:57   Link #61
JackRydden224
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Forget Kio, we all know he is going to live happily ever after with Wendy no matter what happens. At this point his fate is sorta set.

I really want Zeheart to redeem himself and I want Fram to be a part of it.
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Old 2012-09-04, 05:50   Link #62
Destined_Fate
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Maybe he's just tired of the war and doesn't know what to think. Seems like he's being set up where he's going to be a very confused and random boy until someone cool like Seric dies because of him.
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Old 2012-09-04, 21:06   Link #63
Revolutionist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
We don't know that, according to the spoilers, Kio will snap over Deen's death, which is also silly. I can just imagine that he will turn into the best pilot in the show in a matter of seconds and suddenly he will be the coolest character ever.




Yeah, or that.


Kio had alot of potential, as seen in early Gen 3, but in my opinion they've handled his character terrible. Instead of showing that he has potential to grow he gets his ass handed too him in several episodes, just to suddenly gain super X-Rounder reaction powers and suddenly, the AGE-3 can't keep up with him anymore.

It feels like such a asspull from the writers, if anything they should've developed Kio's character a bit more, him training (Like Asemu, for example), or slowly learning to pilot better.
Personally i cant get over the fact that he went from decent to bad (but that's fine, he had no experience in space at all) with no training, to suddenly outgrowing the AGE-3 in less than a second while switching from Orbital to Normal gear, To getting the AGE-FX and ... then what?

He goes towards the route of understanding (yes, pardon my choice of words) but refuses to fight as soon as a named character shows up,he doesnt even pull the trigger against Girard, goes emo and doesn't want to come to an understanding with Flit because " He wont listen " to shooting at Zeheart and Fram in this episode.

His character growth doesn't make sense in any way, at all. I know some of you will reply with " He is a kid, that's what kids do " No, it's not, it's just bad writing.
If you can see this, then why did you, in a previous post, try to justify Zeheart's derailment saying it was consistent with his character?
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Old 2012-09-04, 22:45   Link #64
Znozzy
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.. Because his character has always been a diehard follower of Ezelcant, Project Eden and the Vagan? Not to mention you could see how drunk he got on his power in the actual episode? What happened to him in the latest episodes is consistent with his character development, Kio's is not
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Old 2012-09-04, 23:49   Link #65
Revolutionist
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Did you not watch gen 2 at all? Zeheart was following Ezelcant based on idea that everything was being done to save the Vagan. He wanted to stay in Tordia and live a normal life because that's where he was happy, but he points out that he can't do that while there people dying of disease in Mars. He obviously wasn't die hard enough because he put friendship over the cause on more than one occasion, and despite the whole "i'll kill you" bs he said 100 times, he never went through with it. He always ended putting friendship before Ezelcant. Towards the end of Gen 2, once Asemu had served his purpose and the pods had escaped the fortress, Zeheart went out of his way, and almost lost his life trying to protect his friend.
Does that even remotely sound like the asshole he turned into the moment Ezelcant asked him to follow in his madness? The way his character was developed in Gen 2, and in the early parts of Gen 3 ( Olivernotes incident aside) he would've never accepted to carry out Eden just as Ezelcant intended. He would have kept the stance he took during the conversation, not flit flop on his convictions so easily. You do not go from caring commander who doesn't waste people's lives to death ray firing psychopath just because your boss, who was lying and using you, suddenly opens up to you and asks you to follow him in his madness. that is bad writing any way you look at it.
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Old 2012-09-05, 04:20   Link #66
Dengar
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It seems to me like Zeheart is trying to realise Ezelcant's plan in his own (as of yet unrevealed) way.
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Old 2012-09-05, 07:15   Link #67
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
Did you not watch gen 2 at all? Zeheart was following Ezelcant based on idea that everything was being done to save the Vagan. He wanted to stay in Tordia and live a normal life because that's where he was happy, but he points out that he can't do that while there people dying of disease in Mars.
Don't disagree on anything you are saying there, and yes, i did infact watch Gen 2, i've rewatched Gen 2 many times, since it's my favorite part of AGE.

Him wanting to say in Tordia is perfectly understandable, which brings up the subplot of his, Romary and Asemu's friendship which pretty much defined his character in Gen 2.

Quote:
He obviously wasn't die hard enough because he put friendship over the cause on more than one occasion, and despite the whole "i'll kill you" bs he said 100 times, he never went through with it. He always ended putting friendship before Ezelcant.
No, he didn't, he choose to spare a friend because he was conflicted, he still went on following Ezelcant's plan during Gen 2, not once did he say "Hey, you know what, i'm going to give up on this entire crusade and put my weapon down, because you are my friend"

Zeheart was always loyal to Ezelcant, hell, from what the flashbacks showed, Ezelcant was somewhat of a father figure to him.

He followed Ezelcant's plan when he thought it was meant to save the Vagan people, and he is following Ezelcant's plan now aswell. If anything Zeheart always thought of Ezelcant as a noble person who would give his own life for the Vagan people's cause, he adores the person so much he took his will and bet his life on it against Sid

Quote:
Towards the end of Gen 2, once Asemu had served his purpose and the pods had escaped the fortress, Zeheart went out of his way, and almost lost his life trying to protect his friend.
He sure did, as i said before, Zeheart was conflicted, did you not catch that during Gen 2? During Gen 3 without seeing Asemu for 20? years, he doesnt seem to care that much anymore.

Quote:
Does that even remotely sound like the asshole he turned into the moment Ezelcant asked him to follow in his madness? The way his character was developed in Gen 2, and in the early parts of Gen 3 ( Olivernotes incident aside) he would've never accepted to carry out Eden just as Ezelcant intended. He would have kept the stance he took during the conversation, not flit flop on his convictions so easily.
it seemed like he was afraid that Ezelcant was some evil dictator with a godcomplex, not the noble broken man he managed to make himself look like when he finished his madness speech
Spoiler for opinion:


Quote:
You do not go from caring commander who doesn't waste people's lives to death ray firing psychopath just because your boss, who was lying and using you, suddenly opens up to you and asks you to follow him in his madness. that is bad writing any way you look at it.
Oh god yes. AGE Suffers from terrible terrible writing, but i think Zeheart is one of the characters who do make sense going from Gen2 - Gen3, too bad we dont know what happened inbetween.
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Old 2012-09-05, 09:21   Link #68
Hiroshi Amearai
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Am I the only one who want this moment back?
Spoiler for Flit & Kio:
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Old 2012-09-05, 11:39   Link #69
Kenzaki Kazuma
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Quote:
Am I the only one who want this moment back?
I really want to see that FX gets disarmed and Kio can only cry at the vagan scum's death in the cockpit. He ignored everyone's advices and continued to act like he was doing the right thing. And he still did it after that Digmazenon Shot.

It seems like, with Kio, human lives aren't precious, only Vagan's is :-< Hell, he didn't even care about that Olivernote battle anymore.
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Old 2012-09-05, 11:56   Link #70
Hiroshi Amearai
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I swear, I would have given this show a 10/10, if Grandpa Fritto would have commited a genocide and killed every single Vagan. Would have been something new, for once. And it would be awesome too.
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Old 2012-09-05, 12:30   Link #71
Destined_Fate
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If he did that than AGE would have no chance of getting into SRW in the future which is bad since SRW is a really big deal in Japan.
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Old 2012-09-05, 12:38   Link #72
Freya
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What? My friends died? Fuck them! You can't kill the Vagan! We can be friends.

-Grandpa/Dad dies

We can still be friends!

Vagan takes over Earth and implements "Eden"

FRIENDS!!!
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Old 2012-09-05, 13:02   Link #73
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya View Post
What? My friends died? Fuck them! You can't kill the Vagan! We can be friends.

-Grandpa/Dad dies

We can still be friends!

Vagan takes over Earth and implements "Eden"

FRIENDS!!!
I do believe you're simplifying Kio too much now.
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Old 2012-09-05, 13:52   Link #74
Destined_Fate
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Well, Kio seems willing to overlook a lot of things from his enemies. Sorta like when Kira went super self-righteous mode and refused to kill anyone even though his allies and his enemies killed freely. His no-kill rule also put the team on some pretty rough waters more than once and I'm sure things would be going much better for the AGE cast if Kio got his ass in gear and just started killing all VAGANs.

At least Grandpa would be proud of him.
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Old 2012-09-05, 14:52   Link #75
Dengar
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To me it feels like Kio has the right idea in theory. Talking it out seems like the best option here because frankly, this war is pretty stupid (like all wars). He just has yet to realise that now is not the time to talk.

And to be completely fair, his actions so far have not caused any considerable harm. At least, not from Kio's perspective. I am guessing he's about to learn the hard way that he's going about this all wrong next episode.
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Old 2012-09-05, 15:01   Link #76
Destined_Fate
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Trying to talk about it in the middle of a battle when the enemy has shown no sign of listening and is trying to kill not only him and his friends but everyone they can... Yeah. Kio has a good idea it's just that he's trying to apply it in all the wrong situations.
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Old 2012-09-05, 15:14   Link #77
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To People like Kira, and Kio, it's all about being able to live with themselves. They don't give a shit if someone else does the killing, or if the person they let live dies because of their actions. Case in point: Heine Westenfluss

It comes down to a matter of perspective. The Kira/Kio archetypes will see the taking of any life, as morally wrong regardless of what that person has done. If they happen to die some other way, oops too bad. They are not responsible even if in reality they indirectly caused that person's death. In one of the Nolan Batman movies Batman says: "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you", and that describes what that sort of person thinks like.

Let me share a story with you guys. My younger sister thinks a lot like Kira,Kio,Lacus et al. Peace stickers and love this love that all over the fricking place. Anyway, during the summer, I was visiting and ended up playing a video game on her ps3. In one particular scene I had the option of killing a character or being the "better man" and walking away. Well, she saw me bring justice upon the wicked (guy was a cannibal and child murderer), and she flipped out on me saying "Omg, how can you do that?! omg that's so wrong!" When I pointed out the fact that the guy was really evil and he was going to die a worse death if I let him live (quick bullet to the head, or being eaten alive by zombies), she just replied "Yeah....BUT!" and stormed out of the room....
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Old 2012-09-05, 15:17   Link #78
SoldierOfDarkness
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The thing is Kira was an independent faction so by that point in time he had free rein to screw everybody over but he didn't waste time preaching his nonsence to people.

But when it came to the true instigators he never held back. At least from what I recall. With the grunts he cared less, the simply broke them and moved on.

Quote:
To me it feels like Kio has the right idea in theory. Talking it out seems like the best option here because frankly, this war is pretty stupid (like all wars). He just has yet to realise that now is not the time to talk.
Unfortunately that's not an option.

Asemu already tried that with Zeheart who then confronted Ezcelant over it and after a couple of images he's now "Rawr rawr rawr" for Eden. Even though it didn't work Asemu at the very least had the right path.

For some reason Kio thinks that by handicapping himself he'll be able to make a difference.

Quote:
Yeah. Kio has a good idea it's just that he's trying to apply it in all the wrong situations.
Since it's being shoved down our throats I wonder if they are going to have a shocking moment for Kio where he'll realize that switching to one extreme from another is a bad thing.

In other words he needs to balance himself like Seric does. Priority is to protect your allies and that must be done at all costs.

Quote:
In one of the Nolan Batman movies Batman says: "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you", and that describes what that sort of person thinks like.
True but the thing with Batman is that he's a crime fighter so he has a set of morals to set himself apart from the criminals. Otherwise he's just another murderer.

Batman spoiler
Spoiler:


In a war, the situation is different. The second a person picks up a weapon, aims and fires it, he/she forfeits all rights as a civilian.
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Old 2012-09-05, 15:18   Link #79
Dengar
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There's a bit of a difference here though.

Kira's "I shall not kill" shtick, as well as a lot of his other actions, were either weakly explained or not explained at all. And in the end the actual reason why Kira keeps on blowing everyone up, is because he wants to be left alone, ironically. Kio actually cares about his opponents because he has seen the way they lived.
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Old 2012-09-05, 15:20   Link #80
monster
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Of course, Kira has been shown to kill or willing to kill from time to time...

As for Kio, we don't know yet, how far he is willing to take his ideals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
There's a bit of a difference here though.

Kira's "I shall not kill" shtick, as well as a lot of his other actions, were either weakly explained or not explained at all. And in the end the actual reason why Kira keeps on blowing everyone up, is because he wants to be left alone, ironically.
It's explained in SEED.
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