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Old 2012-09-06, 14:46   Link #121
kaizerknight01
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As for mecha and other technology i take inspiration form various anime ( Macross, Gundam , Nadesico etc) and games ( Armored core which pay tribute to all things mecha)

Spoiler for These mecha designs kinda fits in the MUV LUV TSF:


I mean Shirogane in TSF was moments controls/ maneuvers are like out form the ZOE, Macross , nadesico etc
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Old 2012-09-06, 21:46   Link #122
wellis
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
It'd be practically no better than current TSFs. It won't be able to go fast enough to evade Laser-class, and there is currently no known way (IIRC) to spoof them. Current speeds are actually fast enough, and operating time isn't really an issue - IIRC you tend to get NOMed before actually running out of fuel.

If there's some way of defeating - or at least defending - Lasers, then you've got someting viable. This is why I was saying that for the battlefield, post-2040 Valkyries would be more survivable, thanks to the pinpoint barrier system; sure, it won't tank a full on laserhax spam, but it will last more than long enough for you to stay alive.
Then what about with Stargate tech, considering shield technology has been miniaturized to the extent you can have personal shields? They, unlike ME's kinetic barriers, can protect against lasers and such. And naquadah has enough energy to easily supply power to shields.

Is there any mention of what type of powersource TSFs use in Muv-Luv?

Kaizerknight01: Thinking about mecha and controls, part of me wonders how someone who has played Steel Battalion, with its controller, would do in piloting TSFs?
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Old 2012-09-06, 22:02   Link #123
kaizerknight01
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As for pilot systems are 360 degree panoramic monitors and next the logical improvement of muv luv exosuit or fortified suit I guess i would macross frontier Ex-gear which can help the pilots controls and survivability and it alot more compact

Spoiler for ......:


or this
Spoiler for modular transformable power armor:

Last edited by kaizerknight01; 2012-09-06 at 22:14.
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Old 2012-09-07, 01:26   Link #124
Hagoshod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micropod View Post
Did you read any of what was written? At all?
No, I did actually read most of it. The problem is it's already contradicted by what's explicitly stated on-screen. There's no reason to argue it further.

Last edited by Hagoshod; 2012-09-07 at 01:40.
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Old 2012-09-07, 02:46   Link #125
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
No, I did actually read most of it. The problem is it's already contradicted by what's explicitly stated on-screen. There's no reason to argue it further.
Since you apparently completely lack reading comprehension, and everyone except you can see it, I'll just say it one more time for its own sake. Them being referred to as having not completed their training does not necessarily mean they haven't gotten their commission yet, for reasons already given. While at the same time, everything else about them that was explicitly shown on-screen (as compared to a squad from the VN that was actually hurriedly deployed without graduating) does in fact point towards them having graduated. Your supposed contradiction is not there.
And that is about all I have to say about the matter at this point besides what I already wrote in my last post, the points within which you have not even tried to address, which everyone besides you realizes. Go back and read all the posts against yours again, closely this time. Good day to you.
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Old 2012-09-07, 08:11   Link #126
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
No, I did actually read most of it. The problem is it's already contradicted by what's explicitly stated on-screen. There's no reason to argue it further.
This is where we really need a native speaker who knows army talk to clear up what was actually said, what with Crunchy being derp from time to time. I figure that the squad leader's comments could be interpreted in a number of ways:

(1) Yui's class are still IRG trainees pressed into service. This is the literal interpretation, which is somewhat belied by how they're wearing standard IRG flight gear and piloting Imperial Royal Guards colors Type-82 Zuikaku TSFs, as opposed to the translucent training flight suits and training colors Type-77 Gekishin TSFs.

It's like saying that a bunch of American pilots are still trainees while they're in Phantoms, instead of Talon trainers.

Or;

(2) Yui's class has been commissioned, but has not fully completed the training syllabus, which is why the squad leader calls them trainees, because that is what they functionally are. Note that new pilots, whether from Annaolis, Colorado Springs, West Point, or Aviation Officer Candidate School at Pensacola, graduate as 2nd Lieutenants and Ensigns, but are still not considered fully trained pilots. In fact AOCS looks a lot closer to what Yui's class went through - when you graduate AOCS, only then you get orders to report for flight training. In this case they're doing AOCS and flight training together. So they're commissioned 2LTs, but are still trainee pilots.

Or;

(3) Squad leader calls them nuggets (newbie pilots) instead of maggots (boot camp recruits), but the nuance is lost to Crunchy's herpderp. Like I said, need a native speaker who knows army talk to confirm/deny, which is why I'm not putting as much weight on this interpretation.

Lastly, this is all a moot point because A-01 does not take external transfers, but trains its own maggot pilot trainees. If they took external transfers, they would not have gone from wing strength (108 TSFs/pilots) to a single squadron (12 TSFs, Isumi's Valkyries), as they could have made good their losses from replacements. Inferences can be drawn that Yuuko wants pilots with no preconceptions or existing doctrine in their heads, so she can mould them the way she wants.

As Izumi has already been trained as a member of the Imperial Royal Guards, and has already been exposed to IRG doctrine, she is no longer a blank slate acceptable to A-01.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaizerknight01 View Post
As for pilot systems are 360 degree panoramic monitors and next the logical improvement of muv luv exosuit or fortified suit I guess i would macross frontier Ex-gear which can help the pilots controls and survivability and it alot more compact

Spoiler for ......:


or this
Spoiler for modular transformable power armor:
No point. laser will still shoot you down and you aren't carrying enough firepower to kill anything.

A Cyclone would be awesome... Except that you're stuck on the ground, and unless you have a railgun or a beam cannon, Soldier-kun would like to hug you and Tank-class will take you to dinner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellis View Post
Then what about with Stargate tech, considering shield technology has been miniaturized to the extent you can have personal shields? They, unlike ME's kinetic barriers, can protect against lasers and such. And naquadah has enough energy to easily supply power to shields.

Is there any mention of what type of powersource TSFs use in Muv-Luv?

Kaizerknight01: Thinking about mecha and controls, part of me wonders how someone who has played Steel Battalion, with its controller, would do in piloting TSFs?
Yes and no, in that physical impacts cn still get through the shields. On the other hand, you really need it to protect you from lasers, and once those are clear you can just rain death from above, so it would make the American doctrine a bit more practical.

IF the Americans were able to mass produce shield tech, I could see it being given to Wild Weasel F-16s for hunter killer teams: hunters scout the battlefield, looking for lasers and relying on the shields to protect them, while killers go low and jump the lasers when hunters find them.

Other bit of tech would be using trinium for AP shells to kill Destroyer-class from the front, and naquadah to make more powerful missiles/120mm shells. And of course once they launch Promethus and the rest of the BC-304s, you have a small fleet that can interdict incoming BETA hives and provide orbital fire support.
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2012-09-07 at 08:32. Reason: Some touchup.
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Old 2012-09-07, 10:51   Link #127
wellis
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Yes and no, in that physical impacts cn still get through the shields. On the other hand, you really need it to protect you from lasers, and once those are clear you can just rain death from above, so it would make the American doctrine a bit more practical.

IF the Americans were able to mass produce shield tech, I could see it being given to Wild Weasel F-16s for hunter killer teams: hunters scout the battlefield, looking for lasers and relying on the shields to protect them, while killers go low and jump the lasers when hunters find them.

Other bit of tech would be using trinium for AP shells to kill Destroyer-class from the front, and naquadah to make more powerful missiles/120mm shells. And of course once they launch Promethus and the rest of the BC-304s, you have a small fleet that can interdict incoming BETA hives and provide orbital fire support.
If shield tech could be mass produced why couldn't the US just equip all TSFs with them? Also is there any mention of what TSFs are powered by in canon?

Regarding trinium, wouldn't it be smarter for it to be used for making TSFs much tougher, possibly being able to protect against lasers much longer due to trinium being 100x stronger and lighter than an equivalent amount of steel?

And what would be useful about how naquadah and potassium react when put together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
One of the main elements of Muv Luv that makes it so prime for Fanfic fuel is it's essential premise of transferring characters from a lighter, softer, more idealistic world and genre like Muv Luv Extra, into the grim nature of Muv Luv Unlimited and Alternative.

It is very prime crossover fanfic fuel. There are plenty of characters in animes with much more lighter themes, from Rom-Coms, Slice of Life and certain variants of Shounen, often derisively labeled moe blobs and Generic Harem protagonists. Placing such characters into the world of Muv-Luv extra would be a brilliant exploration of these characters- clearly, some would fare better than others, some may even do better than Takeru, while some would die very, very fast.

It would be an interesting exercise, for example, to imagine if the cast of Slice of Lives such as Yuru Yuri or K-on were a tightly knitted squad Eishi pilots instead, circa 2010, in a Post-Alternative Fanfic. And then, the bodies start piling up, one by one. Or, put a Male Protagonist of your choice, from the same genre as Extra as the sole male in the squad, surrounded by his harem, and imagine how character dynamics would change as a result of being born in the world of Extra.

Another interesting scenario would be to throw your pick of Harem or Shounen Protagonists into the world of Alternative in place of Takeru, and see how they fare, as a form of character comparison. Victims may include the likes of Makoto from School Days, who'd likely get Om Nom Nom Nomed, to the likes of even more competent protagonists such as Keima Katsuragi or Negi Springfield. In the middle of these two extreme scenarios would be the likes of Kodaka from Hagani.
You mention that some protagonists would do worse than Takeru, but how? He himself started as a mere civilian who was average at best, with only having great piloting skills due to playing video games all the time. It's not like he had special powers or a well-trained body prior to Unlimited/Alternative like some protagonists have, such as Nasuverse protagonists, to name a few.

And what would make Keima or Negi more competent in Unlimited/Alternative when neither of them really deal with mecha? Would Negi be able to pilot a TSF well or something like Takeru was able to do?

Last edited by wellis; 2012-09-07 at 11:30.
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Old 2012-09-07, 11:29   Link #128
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellis View Post
If shield tech could be mass produced why couldn't the US just equip all TSFs with them? Also is there any mention of what TSFs are powered by in canon?
That's long term; in the short term, units with priority for shields would be Wild Weasels and probably Raptors. Give shields to the squadrons hunting Laser-class to defend themselves; oncemthe lasers are clear, you can bring in death from above. It's like how dedicated Wild Weasel aircraft will have specialised SEAD loadouts and jamming gear, while the follow on strike aircraft won't be carrying that gear, devoting their stores to ordanance.

In canon, in the subject of powering TSFs, there are no mentions that I can recall. Given the jump engines are strongly suggestive of gas turbines (specifically turbofan engines), I'd figure they run on avgas.q

Quote:
Regarding trinium, wouldn't it be smarter for it to be used for making TSFs much tougher, possibly being able to protect against lasers much longer due to trinium being 100x stronger and lighter than an equivalent amount of steel?
If you have shields, you don't need anti laser protection. Once your shield-protected TSFs have killed the Lasers, you can take to the skies freely. Also, TSFs are fragile and there's little benefit to protecting them heavily. It's better to invest that trinium into AP shells that can kill a Destroyer head on.
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2012-09-07 at 13:49. Reason: Some further clarification.
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Old 2012-09-07, 14:44   Link #129
kaizerknight01
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As for the Ex-Gear i was think of it an improved pilot system it has nice feature like you could have "slave command" your mecha , i was think of it as viable last ditch effort of the Eishi to escape and survive , fly NOE and get the hell out of there....

as for the cyclone on second thought i see role a mechanize infantry , for the purpose fighting soldier, warrior strains, give it high powered rocket/missiles/ gauss heavy rifle against tanks..

Well is far better than than facing them on foot

as for lasers , nadesico distortion field has the 5th dimensional effect ... Lasers just bounce of of it

Anyway this just the mech/ sci fi weapons fan that speaking .....

paul xion latest chapter is up

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7112821/...-into-the-Loop

Last edited by kaizerknight01; 2012-09-07 at 16:04.
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Old 2012-09-07, 19:37   Link #130
John117xCortana
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Damn cliffhanger...things were starting to look good....
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Old 2012-09-07, 20:31   Link #131
wellis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaizerknight01 View Post
As for the Ex-Gear i was think of it an improved pilot system it has nice feature like you could have "slave command" your mecha , i was think of it as viable last ditch effort of the Eishi to escape and survive , fly NOE and get the hell out of there....

as for the cyclone on second thought i see role a mechanize infantry , for the purpose fighting soldier, warrior strains, give it high powered rocket/missiles/ gauss heavy rifle against tanks..

Well is far better than than facing them on foot

as for lasers , nadesico distortion field has the 5th dimensional effect ... Lasers just bounce of of it

Anyway this just the mech/ sci fi weapons fan that speaking .....

paul xion latest chapter is up

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7112821/...-into-the-Loop
I tried reading that story but the chapters just seemed to be copy and pasted, word for word, from the VN itself. At what point does the story show actual change?
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Old 2012-09-07, 21:33   Link #132
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It'll start changing in rebellion arc.

And uh... I first expected that Meiya died in this chapter, but it turns out that she survived (thank god ;_; ). I hope the other Valkyrie team are safe too Also as expected, Yuuko already know what'll happen in the future thanks to Sumika(?)
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Old 2012-09-07, 22:11   Link #133
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It'll start changing in rebellion arc.

And uh... I first expected that Meiya died in this chapter, but it turns out that she survived (thank god ;_; ). I hope the other Valkyrie team are safe too Also as expected, Yuuko already know what'll happen in the future thanks to Sumika(?)
You do know that the whole point of that fanfiction is Takeru make DAMN sure everyone survive,right?
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Old 2012-09-07, 22:20   Link #134
Wild Goose
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Yeah but there's always the chance things get screwed up and go off the rails. SEED fanfic I was working on, main OC tried to get 8th Fleet allied to Archangel for BVW1. He ended up causing ZAFT to overreact and deploy several task groups and got the Archangel killed.
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Old 2012-09-07, 23:48   Link #135
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You do know that the whole point of that fanfiction is Takeru make DAMN sure everyone survive,right?
Guess I came up wrong ;( I meant that when the scene where Tsukuyomi shot Meiya, I thought for sure that she killed Meiya there
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Old 2012-09-08, 11:48   Link #136
John117xCortana
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Knowing Yuuko she'll manipulate the events of the future to suit her own agenda. Even at the cost of lives that didn't need to die.
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Old 2012-09-08, 13:33   Link #137
Wild Goose
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Is that really surprising, given that Yuuko is a genderbent Shuu Shirakawa expy?
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Old 2012-09-08, 22:41   Link #138
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No it's not. But it's still sad. Those who believe that the ends justify the means often believe that it excuses them from the consequences of their actions.
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Old 2012-09-09, 01:54   Link #139
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Iirc even her Extra self IS horrifed at what lenghts her Alternative self is willing to go.
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Old 2012-09-09, 02:07   Link #140
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Well here's my interquel second chapter Izumi thing:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8314408/2/A-Cadets-Account

And here's a rough analogy of what's been happening on 4chan for about the past day as a result of my interquel second chapter Izumi thing:

http://thecinemasnob.com/2012/06/12/...re-review.aspx


I'm kind of out of it after arguing constantly over why not having the same exact pinpoint troop placement doesn't necessary contradict all of established canon and make the original basic plot completely inconceivable, so take this as you will.
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