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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 09
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 112 60.87%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 44 23.91%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 13 7.07%
7 out of 10 : Good... 7 3.80%
6 out of 10 : Average... 4 2.17%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.54%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.54%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 2 1.09%
Voters: 184. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-07, 16:38   Link #661
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Well, there are a few reasons why she shouldn't duel Heathcliff.

If she was to fight with the leader, then that would mean KoB really made decisions based on a duel between members. What would happen to the discipline after that, regardless of who wins?

Kirito, OTOH, is an outsider. Right now, and even after the fight, it can still be dismissed as a joke and a show.
I didn't mean "fight for herself" literally, but more symbolically. Not that she'd be the one to do the duel, but more that it comes across like two guys fighting over "who gets the girl". Again, this is partly because of the way it all played out in a limited period of time, as it was just Heathcliff and Kirito talking about Asuna and her not saying anything. Her rightful response at this point should be indignation, like "Wait, don't I get any say in this?" So as I said, it depends on what happens next.
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Old 2012-09-07, 16:45   Link #662
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She had her say when she went to see Heathcliff. His answer was "bring that boy to me, I want to fight him". She likely did all her protesting before bringing the matter to Kirito (her next to last resort).
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Old 2012-09-07, 16:46   Link #663
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think the issue is just basically that it comes across as if Asuna doesn't even get a choice about her own destiny. When I watched the episode with my sister, that was the first thing she pointed out: that the two guys were fighting over her when she should be able fight for herself (that they were turning her into a damsel in distress).
This so cute!!!!!

Yeah, it's better of "making a stand in what she believe" and not literally fight him.

Fighting between two high ranking leaders will either bring division if not confusion in the guild... aside form dropping the morale of the guild. Asuna would not do that for she loves her guild. She tries to stop Kirito hoping Heathcliff will change his mind if "she makes a stand."
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Old 2012-09-07, 17:23   Link #664
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Kirito and Heathcliff were arguing over Asuna, but the duel isn't really about her, but rather about Kirito. Win or lose so will they still be together and Asuna will still be in the guild. All the duel decides is if she will take a short break from the guild duties or if Kirito will have to join it.

As for trusting a maverick like Kirito in a serious battle, so does he already fight with them during the floor Boss fights. The only change is that he will now do so while wearing their guild tag.
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Old 2012-09-07, 17:25   Link #665
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She had her say when she went to see Heathcliff. His answer was "bring that boy to me, I want to fight him". She likely did all her protesting before bringing the matter to Kirito (her next to last resort).
Oh, I know we can assume that, but it wasn't shown. Again, as I've pointed out many, many times, this is about perception based on what was shown, not on things we have to assume happened but were not deemed important enough to show (yet). This is why I keep saying that it depends on what happens next.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Znail View Post
Kirito and Heathcliff were arguing over Asuna, but the duel isn't really about her, but rather about Kirito. Win or lose so will they still be together and Asuna will still be in the guild. All the duel decides is if she will take a short break from the guild duties or if Kirito will have to join it.
Well, yeah. The issue is just that her being able to take a break shouldn't really be dependant on whether Kirito beats the guild leader in a fight to "win her freedom" (so to speak). The condition being imposed is somewhat unfair, which is no doubt why she was exasperated about the whole mess.
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Old 2012-09-07, 18:09   Link #666
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Sorry I mean that from a PoV of view which RF wrote far better in the sense that ppl fighting over her without her input. At least Kirito is defending her, but Heathcliff's position just doesn't feel right to me.
I didn't mean to say you should change your opinion, or anything like that. If it sounded like I tried to, I'm sorry.
What I meant was, if she was being used as a " trophy " Heathcliff would've just said : " If I win, she stays with us, if I lose, she goes with you ". This wasn't the case, he obviously wants Kirito in the guild, he doesn't really care much if she goes or not on " vacations " for a few days/weeks, plus, he knows she doesn't want to leave. ( Because, wether Kirito wins or is defeated, he stays with Asuna )
Once again, I'm sorry if you felt like I was trying to force my opinion into you, I wasn't trying to.
TL;DR - I am only saying that maybe " using her as a trophy " isn't the best word to describe it, since he was only " playing " with Kirito's " mind " to get him into the duel.

Last edited by Karakuri; 2012-09-07 at 18:45.
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Old 2012-09-07, 19:41   Link #667
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Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
I didn't mean to say you should change your opinion, or anything like that. If it sounded like I tried to, I'm sorry.
What I meant was, if she was being used as a " trophy " Heathcliff would've just said : " If I win, she stays with us, if I lose, she goes with you ". This wasn't the case, he obviously wants Kirito in the guild, he doesn't really care much if she goes or not on " vacations " for a few days/weeks, plus, he knows she doesn't want to leave. ( Because, wether Kirito wins or is defeated, he stays with Asuna )
Once again, I'm sorry if you felt like I was trying to force my opinion into you, I wasn't trying to.
TL;DR - I am only saying that maybe " using her as a trophy " isn't the best word to describe it, since he was only " playing " with Kirito's " mind " to get him into the duel.
My apologies I didn't mean that at all, I was just trying to clarify my use of trophy.

My issue I guess is not to do with Kirito, but with Asuna or the treatment of Heathcliff guildies in general.

Asuna is from what we gather is very important to the guild, so what is the issue with taking some time off? Working for years without leave must be horrendous on the individuals even if it is self motivated. Now the guild master takes the request for leave and turns it into her actually being taken away by one of the people she has known for longest periods of time and whom from what we see has feelings for...

Asuna quite rightly went off to get Kirito so they could deal with it together (even though it seems that Kirito has taken the bait), but she could have easily taken it as a him or guild choice. If she was the type who decides that they must deal with the situation herself and protect both Kirito and the guild I think the situation would have gotten really dark for her.
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Old 2012-09-07, 20:17   Link #668
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
My apologies I didn't mean that at all, I was just trying to clarify my use of trophy.

My issue I guess is not to do with Kirito, but with Asuna or the treatment of Heathcliff guildies in general.

Asuna is from what we gather is very important to the guild, so what is the issue with taking some time off? Working for years without leave must be horrendous on the individuals even if it is self motivated. Now the guild master takes the request for leave and turns it into her actually being taken away by one of the people she has known for longest periods of time and whom from what we see has feelings for...

Asuna quite rightly went off to get Kirito so they could deal with it together (even though it seems that Kirito has taken the bait), but she could have easily taken it as a him or guild choice. If she was the type who decides that they must deal with the situation herself and protect both Kirito and the guild I think the situation would have gotten really dark for her.
Well, yeah.
But she is still a " child " compared to the leader. She probably thinks it'll be disrespectful to go agaisn't the leader's words. But even then, she only wants to spend time with Kirito, which means she'll be fine inside the guild, as long as Kirito is in there, with her. And as someone said in this thread, she probably already said all she could say, but she just couldn't " win the word fight " if you can say so.
Well, either way, Asuna is probably fine with any of those results. The only thing that she might not like, is the fact Kirito is being " forced ", though I don't think so. It seems he enjoys duels. You know he said he is better with swords rather than words. Probably he wanted this fight. As Kirito said, they met each other a few times, probably he saw Heathcliff as a great player, and wanted to know how strong he was. I guess what I said about " playing with Kirito's mind " would be off, since I just realised ( I feel kinda stupid now lol ) that Kirito probably wanted this fight. Well, either way it's fine I guess, they probably don't mind it. But yeah, I know what you mean now. I guess most people are " annoyed ", if you can say so, about the fact they're making her a " damsel ", but I'm used to see this kind of things in anime/manga, so I don't really give much of a thought to it.
I actually think it's kind of cute though, I mean, a girl showing her weaknesses to only one person . Even if they're making her a " damsel ", I find it pretty awesome the fact that, they actually put a girl in the Front Lines, which is actually the vice-comander, and to top that, she's probably one of the 3 best players in-game. Well, maybe they will change her " damsel " acts as the show goes on, so let's just sit and enjoy, and maybe if that time comes, someone will want to buy drinks to everyone in here. Lol ^^

[mod edit: removed information not revealed in the anime]

Damn, Reki Kawahara, I wish I was japanese and had played MMOs with you, the way you wrote things, you look like you're a great gamer, atleast in my opinion '-'

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-09-07 at 21:08. Reason: removed novel info
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Old 2012-09-07, 20:39   Link #669
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Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
Well, yeah.
Even if they're making her a " damsel ", I find it pretty awesome the fact that, they actually put a girl in the Front Lines, which is actually the vice-comander, and to top that, she's probably one of the 3 best players in-game.
Most of the MMOs I've played don't discriminate on sexes, so girl or boy they have equal prowess, I say most games but my main one actually has eq that makes it a little easier to gear up a female character as a support type

Unless you mean her psychology as a girl being able to handle the front lines??
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Old 2012-09-07, 20:45   Link #670
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Most of the MMOs I've played don't discriminate on sexes, so girl or boy they have equal prowess, I say most games but my main one actually has eq that makes it a little easier to gear up a female character as a support type

Unless you mean her psychology as a girl being able to handle the front lines??
Yes, I mean...you don't usually see a girl confronting Death like that. I don't think she's even scared while doing it. Atleast I don't think many girls could handle that situation like that...Just like Sachi...she got easily scared with medium-level monsters, right? ( Though Silica didn't seem that much scared, only when she got attacked by surprise, or attacked by many monsters at once ) - But...yeah...this is a game, so maybe it makes it a bit easier to handle it, since as long as you make the right decisions, you'll be fine. Though you need to be confident on your own skills.

I don't know about your game, but it seems interesting. Makes it a lot easier to have someone as a supporter on a team, lol.
I mostly soloed, so I don't know if it's easy or not to find supporters to create a party, though, never really cared about it as long as I could handle things by myself.

Edit: Oh yeah, not to mention, she's a one handed sword wielder.

Last edited by Karakuri; 2012-09-07 at 20:56.
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Old 2012-09-07, 21:10   Link #671
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Yes, I mean...you don't usually see a girl confronting Death like that. I don't think she's even scared while doing it. Atleast I don't think many girls could handle that situation like that...Just like Sachi...she got easily scared with medium-level monsters, right? ( Though Silica didn't seem that much scared, only when she got attacked by surprise, or attacked by many monsters at once ) - But...yeah...this is a game, so maybe it makes it a bit easier to handle it, since as long as you make the right decisions, you'll be fine. Though you need to be confident on your own skills.

I don't know about your game, but it seems interesting. Makes it a lot easier to have someone as a supporter on a team, lol.
I mostly soloed, so I don't know if it's easy or not to find supporters to create a party, though, never really cared about it as long as I could handle things by myself.

Edit: Oh yeah, not to mention, she's a one handed sword wielder.
Girls actually tend to be calmer than boys in life threatening or violent situations. Statistically speaking.
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Old 2012-09-07, 21:16   Link #672
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Girls actually tend to be calmer than boys in life threatening or violent situations. Statistically speaking.
She has Kirito as a bodyguard.
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Old 2012-09-07, 21:22   Link #673
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Girls actually tend to be calmer than boys in life threatening or violent situations. Statistically speaking.
Well, now that one I didn't expect, since I've seen girls get really scared just because they saw a snake ( My school is quite wonderful, specially with snakes, hehe ), most guys were just watching it, while girls were running away, it wasn't a threatening situation, but what I meant was, girls do get easily scared, I mean..even when they see bugs they yell, lol. Since I've never seen any life threatening situation between boys and girls, I guess I have to agree with you, since you have something to back-up you, and I don't ^^
Edit: Do you remember where you found those statistics? I would like to see a few more things in there, if possible ^^, well, if not, no problem, I'll just try to find it.
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Old 2012-09-07, 21:27   Link #674
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Well, now that one I didn't expect, since I've seen girls get really scared just because they saw a snake ( My school is quite wonderful, specially with snakes, hehe ), most guys were just watching it, while girls were running away, it wasn't a threatening situation, but what I meant was, girls do get easily scared, I mean..even when they see bugs they yell, lol. Since I've never seen any life threatening situation between boys and girls, I guess I have to agree with you, since you have something to back-up you, and I don't ^^
Edit: Do you remember where you found those statistics? I would like to see a few more things in there, if possible ^^, well, if not, no problem, I'll just try to find it.
Actually, I don't have anything to back it up, I just remember reading something like that years ago. I was hoping no one would call me out on it. And now you know how urban legends start.

Edit: I think it was specifically something about the reaction to seeing blood, although I don't remember the details.
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Old 2012-09-07, 21:34   Link #675
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In regards to how sexes handle life threatening situations I think it is a very difficult one to deal with. Rather I would just super generalise and lump everyone be it boy or girl as a hostage with their lives on the line. Everyone handles things in different ways, some people head into danger head on (front liners), others back these people (merch and crafters), whilst I guess others could still in the first town in denial.

Training helps so Kirito's kendo probably has given him a edge at the beginning, anyone who has had first aid responsibilities, military/police training would imho deal with adverse situations better then the average Joe.

_but_ also that can backfire as trained people tend to rely on backup and resources that their organisation gives, well unless they are some uber elite special forces type!
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Old 2012-09-07, 22:04   Link #676
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
In regards to how sexes handle life threatening situations I think it is a very difficult one to deal with. Rather I would just super generalise and lump everyone be it boy or girl as a hostage with their lives on the line. Everyone handles things in different ways, some people head into danger head on (front liners), others back these people (merch and crafters), whilst I guess others could still in the first town in denial.

Training helps so Kirito's kendo probably has given him a edge at the beginning, anyone who has had first aid responsibilities, military/police training would imho deal with adverse situations better then the average Joe.

_but_ also that can backfire as trained people tend to rely on backup and resources that their organisation gives, well unless they are some uber elite special forces type!
I know people differ in every situations, what I mean is, the majority. Just like you can say men like playing Football much more than women ( I think this one I can't be wrong, please...I can't be wrong...otherwise my whole life would've been a lie...lol ). Of course many women enjoy it, but as there are more men into it, we could say men enjoy it more, but it doesn't really mean there will be a tiny number of women who enjoy it.
Anyway, back to the episode discussion, I laughed when Klein spoke with Kirito at the end. " Just consider hardship as a part of training and keep working hard, kiddo. " And his face while he said that...Priceless!!! I hope I wasn't the only one...lol
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Old 2012-09-08, 05:35   Link #677
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Actually, I don't have anything to back it up, I just remember reading something like that years ago. I was hoping no one would call me out on it. And now you know how urban legends start.

Edit: I think it was specifically something about the reaction to seeing blood, although I don't remember the details.
I found this. Which doesn't really say much, except that it's possible that men are likelier to act when confronted to danger.
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Old 2012-09-08, 06:20   Link #678
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I found this. Which doesn't really say much, except that it's possible that men are likelier to act when confronted to danger.
It's a common reaction of animals to freeze when confronted with a life-threatening situation, as running away attracts attention. There are stories of genocide in ancient times where many of the women with children just stand in place while they could easily have run away.
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Old 2012-09-08, 07:27   Link #679
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It's a common reaction of animals to freeze when confronted with a life-threatening situation, as running away attracts attention. There are stories of genocide in ancient times where many of the women with children just stand in place while they could easily have run away.
Isn't that fight or flight. Also it depends on the species and also on their current situation. The example of women with children is normally the opposite. You should always be careful of animals which are new mums they are more likely to attack you then nearly any other time.

I have to admit that so far the front liners they have briefly shown do seem to be made up of men, but we haven't seen that much of them. Also who is to say what sex they are if they are wearing full plate? Unlike lots of games SAO armour doesn't follow the anime convention of the skimpier the more powerful
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