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Old 2012-09-08, 00:02   Link #1041
Khu
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Ugh, I know it's a cultural thing, but why be so uptight about indirect kisses =_='

It's not like it's an actual kiss or anything =_="

They're 16/17/18 for crying out loud!
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Old 2012-09-08, 00:27   Link #1042
Tenchi Ryu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khu View Post
Ugh, I know it's a cultural thing, but why be so uptight about indirect kisses =_='

It's not like it's an actual kiss or anything =_="

They're 16/17/18 for crying out loud!
Its a lot of stuff Japan can be uptight about, but like you said, its a cultural thing.
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Old 2012-09-08, 02:01   Link #1043
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
So that's what made it complicated... lolss! Hmm I think....

Who Do You Think Yuuki Will Choose in the End?

"who do you think Yuuki *should* choose?">> this one doesn't seem to care for the result of the ending...

"who would you choose?">> this is based on our personal interest rather than not Yuuki's
For now it's obvious that he'll choose Chisato or noone. It's to late for twists like it was in MashiroIro
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Old 2012-09-08, 03:44   Link #1044
RDF2050
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Originally Posted by Nachtwandler View Post
For now it's obvious that he'll choose Chisato or noone. It's to late for twists like it was in MashiroIro
We can't be sure until we have clear evidence. I really don't want Chisato to win because I kinda want something different for the default route most VN have. Besides I kinda want either Mifuyu Kiba or Isara Aomi to win. However, that's up to the writer and "Yuuki" to decide. I will still like the anime the way it ends anyway.
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:02   Link #1045
thundrakkon
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Actually, when I think about it, the anime title has 3 elements:

1) Love
2) Election
3) Chocolate

Originally, I thought that these 3 subjects blended together, which would result in Chisato. However, after seeing these past episodes, I now realize that they are 3 distinct subjects that are not necessarily blended together. Yuuki has the "election" to win to save the club. That has a lot of focus. He also has to deal with "love", which does not necessarily relate to the elections. Finally, he will have to deal with "chocolate".

If we look at it this way, chocolate definitely and solely belongs to Chisato. If Chisato belongs to chocolate, the elections belong to Isara and Mifuyu (who helps him out/influence him the most), then that leaves love left. Therefore, love will probably not be in store for Chisato, and the likely candidates are Satsuki and Michiru. Satsuki for obvious reasons; however, the reason why I included Michiru is because she, so far, does not fit with either "election" or "chocolate".

Btw, I did not include Satsuki in "elections" because her influence on Yuuki has been mostly as a lover, not political assistance.
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:17   Link #1046
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
To be honest, i didn't expect that so many anime viewers are starting to dislike Chisato because of this episode.

Spoiler for minor game comparison:
I think it's pretty clear why some people are starting to dislike her. It's been my experience that most people don't like overly clingy, or prone to jealousy, romantic partners. And in Oojima/Chisato's case it looks even worse because Oojima did just reject her an episode ago, so where Chisato's sense of romantic entitlement is coming from is beyond me.

Chisato has her good points, to be sure, but a lot of guys would flee in terror from a girl like this, lol.

It's a shame that she's as prone to jealousy as she is, because she's otherwise one of the better tsunderes I've seen.


Spoiler for minor game comparison:
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:24   Link #1047
hyl
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I think it's pretty clear why some people are starting to dislike her. It's been my experience that most people don't like overly clingy, or prone to jealousy, romantic partners. And in Oojima/Chisato's case it looks even worse because Oojima did just reject her an episode ago, so where Chisato's sense of romantic entitlement is coming from is beyond me.

Chisato has her good points, to be sure, but a lot of guys would flee in terror from a girl like this, lol.

It's a shame that she's as prone to jealousy as she is, because she's otherwise one of the better tsunderes I've seen.


Spoiler for minor game comparison:
Spoiler for Game Comparison:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-09-08 at 06:55. Reason: Comparisons must be behind spoiler tags
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:34   Link #1048
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I'm annoyed at a female character not voiced by Rie Kugimiya!? That has to be a first. Chisato gotten too much emotional development that I can't see her not the end girl. Thats too bad. These VN Eroge adaptations never picks the girl I want to win. They too perfect for the MC. MC wants girl with flaws.
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:42   Link #1049
hyl
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Originally Posted by SoFarGone View Post
I'm annoyed at a female character not voiced by Rie Kugimiya!? That has to be a first. Chisato gotten too much emotional development that I can't see her not the end girl. Thats too bad. These VN Eroge adaptations never picks the girl I want to win. They too perfect for the MC. MC wants girl with flaws.
If you don't like the outcome of the anime, you can always check out the original game and go for your favorite character there
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:52   Link #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Actually, when I think about it, the anime title has 3 elements:

1) Love
2) Election
3) Chocolate

Originally, I thought that these 3 subjects blended together, which would result in Chisato. However, after seeing these past episodes, I now realize that they are 3 distinct subjects that are not necessarily blended together. Yuuki has the "election" to win to save the club. That has a lot of focus. He also has to deal with "love", which does not necessarily relate to the elections. Finally, he will have to deal with "chocolate".

If we look at it this way, chocolate definitely and solely belongs to Chisato. If Chisato belongs to chocolate, the elections belong to Isara and Mifuyu (who helps him out/influence him the most), then that leaves love left. Therefore, love will probably not be in store for Chisato, and the likely candidates are Satsuki and Michiru. Satsuki for obvious reasons; however, the reason why I included Michiru is because she, so far, does not fit with either "election" or "chocolate".

Btw, I did not include Satsuki in "elections" because her influence on Yuuki has been mostly as a lover, not political assistance.

I'm bound to disagree regarding the assumption on the Election and Love....

Obviously...

Chocolate probably refers to three the club, the past and Chisato...

Election is literally for the Election which determines if the club will continue to exist... It also points about the struggles of the club to win the election.

Love... again literally... Its not all about Satsuki, because if it is ..its bias in a sense and it directly questions the other girls' feelings....

The title is literal for me... Its all about the Chocolate, the election and the Love.....

Last edited by NoemiChan; 2012-09-08 at 05:02.
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:54   Link #1051
zgmf-x19a
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Time to add a combo breaker to the current discussion about Chisato.

http://www.koichoco.com/package/index.html
The first blu-ray comes with a picture drama which explains in more detail how Yuuki and Hazuki became that close.
Something which wasn't explained clearly in the game
does that mean you have played the game?
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:56   Link #1052
hyl
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Originally Posted by zgmf-x19a View Post
does that mean you have played the game?
Wasn't that kind of obvious seeing how i am always trying to hold back on the spoilers in the anime section? o_o

Aside from me, atleast 3 others who have posted in thread have played the game.
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Old 2012-09-08, 05:00   Link #1053
zgmf-x19a
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Wasn't that kind of obvious seeing how i am always trying to hold back on the spoilers in the anime section? o_o

Aside from me, atleast 3 others who have posted in thread have played the game.
If you have would you mind sending me a pm a summary of each heroines please?
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Old 2012-09-08, 05:12   Link #1054
Haak
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Huh, that's definitely a first for me. I went the entire episode actually focused on the story and without wishing that the show would end early.

I'm glad that they're finally putting focus on the financial aid students since that's where the biggest potential lies imo. But they're still irritatingly skimpy on the details. When Oojima decided to add it to his manifesto why didn't they talk about how that is affected by Satsuki's manifesto which they know includes financial aid students too? The way the story tries to swerve round issues like that so they can leave it for later feels way too forced. A good chance to finally clear things up too.

Chisato was indeed incredibly annoying this episode. I was pretty apathetic to her to begin with so it didn't take much to make me pissed off with her. But you what? I'm glad they've taken this direction. It finally adds something to her painfully flat character. I'm guessing the only reason we don't sympathise with her is because they're still refusing to explain to us why she's like that. Unfortunately that's a pretty bad way to go, since in the end we might be too pissed off with her to even hear the explanation by the end of it. So let's just hope to God that they clear the whole thing up next episode and get it over and done with. I still can't say I like the way they just throw in the drama when it comes to the characters. For me it hurt Satsuki's episodes too.
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Old 2012-09-08, 06:34   Link #1055
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Huh, that's definitely a first for me. I went the entire episode actually focused on the story and without wishing that the show would end early.

I'm glad that they're finally putting focus on the financial aid students since that's where the biggest potential lies imo. But they're still irritatingly skimpy on the details. When Oojima decided to add it to his manifesto why didn't they talk about how that is affected by Satsuki's manifesto which they know includes financial aid students too? The way the story tries to swerve round issues like that so they can leave it for later feels way too forced. A good chance to finally clear things up too.
I'm not entirely sure that they're just "leaving it for later". It could just be that these details aren't terribly important within the narrative itself.

There's kind of two sides to politics. And I think we've allowed how Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate is excellent at portraying one side of it to maybe raise our expectations too much when it comes to how good Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate will be at portraying the other side of it.

The two sides of politics is actual political policy (which I take from your words to mean that you'd like to see more of), and what's sometimes called "the politics of politics".

Political policy is mainly about governing, and how you intend to run things once elected, and/or if you're already in government.

The politics of politics is about election campaigns, and the strategy and tactics that go into winning elections and maintaining an edge over your political opponents both in campaigns and outside of them (i.e. while just governing).


This anime has been very good at portraying the politics of politics. We see all the fundraising, all the campaigning, all the tactics, all the long-term political strategizing, all the media interactions - We see much of the best and some of the worst of what political campaigns tend to entail. Mind you, it's at a much smaller level than something like running for Head of State of a country, but it's still a pretty accurate depiction of what "the politics of politics" is like.

Heck, as much as Chisato annoyed me at times this episode, I did have to wryly grin over one very telling piece of advice she gave Oojima - "Don't run on this idea of yours, since it's not popular! Just do it anyway once you get elected!" That so reflects modern politics, and how cynical it frequently can be.


But even as good as this anime has been at portraying the politics of politics, it has indeed skimped out on its portrayal of political policy. But really, I think this is a case where we probably need to remember that this is first and foremost an eroge adaptation. While its overarching election plot is obviously important, it's also largely a vehicle for believably putting Oojima in various relationships with other girls aiding the romance side of things (it's actually rather ingenious, as this election plot manages to get Oojima around the old harem anime complaint of "How is this male lead managing to attract so many girls?!").

It's certainly possible that this anime will yet delve more substantively into political policy, but given how deep we are into this anime and how the romance side of things is far from resolved, I wouldn't get my expectations up too high there.
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Old 2012-09-08, 06:44   Link #1056
frivolity
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^Agreed with the political side of the show. So far they've done quite a good job in portraying how politics is always about the interests of the individual/faction, and allies are never truly allies but parties with shared interests. For example, the Public Safety Commission is only helping Ooshima since they themselves can't run, and a greenhorn like him would be the easiest to oust in future. I wonder if we'll start to see gerrymandering and pork-barrel politics in the coming episodes.

On the relationship aspect, I like Michiru most but I'm not sure how they can actually resolve all the loose ends while having Oojima end up with anyone other than Satsuki, given the overall theme of the show. Satsuki is his election rival after all, and thus has the largest role among the girls in terms of plot.
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Old 2012-09-08, 06:54   Link #1057
Haak
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm not entirely sure that they're just "leaving it for later". It could just be that these details aren't terribly important within the narrative itself.
It's true that they've given far more focus to the mechanics of politics rather than the political philosophies (so much so that I couldn't help but find it ironic) but I do think they actually plan to focus on the policies as well. I mean I can't imagine the scene where Oojima reads Satsuki's manifesto whilst Isara gets bullied to be insignificant in the long run. After that, I was almost certain it would be one of the central issues at the end. In fact after this episode I'm pretty sure it will be. It's still a loose character thread with both Satsuki and Isara and it looks to be an issue on Yakumo's side now that we've learnt that the reason behind his drop is linked to the matter and now that Yumi Osawa has been thrown into the mix.

But still, even if it's not the main focus, it's not okay to force the issues away anyway. That scene where Oojima declares the financial aid students as part of his manifesto was obviously about his policies. And they also know that Satsuki's policies are about the aid students so naturally you'd think the conversation would follow in that direction. But it doesn't. They don't even consider it, even though it's the first thing I'd consider immediately. It's hard to feel for characters when they occasional act completely outside of any sort of logic, even if it's a supposedly minor thing like that. And it's not as if the way Oojima's new found manifesto being affected by Satsuki's manifesto isn't linked to the mechanics of the politics either so they don't really have any reason not to go there anyway.
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Old 2012-09-08, 07:07   Link #1058
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That scene where Oojima declares the financial aid students as part of his manifesto was obviously about his policies. And they also know that Satsuki's policies are about the aid students so naturally you'd think the conversation would follow in that direction. But it doesn't. They don't even consider it, even though it's the first thing I'd consider immediately. It's hard to feel for characters when they occasional act completely outside of any sort of logic, even if it's a supposedly minor thing like that. And it's not as if the way Oojima's new found manifesto being affected by Satsuki's manifesto isn't linked to the mechanics of the politics either so they don't really have any reason not to go there anyway.
Well, they didn't exactly have a lot of time to talk about that at that point. For better or worse, this episode was trying to forge ahead on many, many different plot threads at once (perhaps too many). As soon as that statement was made, they cut to something else without necessarily resolving the scene, so we don't even know what else was discussed at that time. Further, the fact they didn't necessarily discuss it right away isn't necessarily "acting completing outside of any sort of logic" either; they could easily have decided to think about it and discuss it more later, but again we just don't see how the conversation went. They may also assume that Mifuyu and Yuuki will consider that when drafting the policy statement.

So basically, you can't come to the conclusion that something is illogical just because it isn't shown (and because it's the first thing you'd consider if it were you). There are a lot of conversations that aren't shown (the outcome is assumed) or are severely abbreviated due to time-constraints. That may be unfortunate, but if your "being able to feel for characters" depends on seeing every logical conversation, I think that's asking for the impossible in such a short show. You have to be able to connect a few dots on your own.
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Old 2012-09-08, 07:16   Link #1059
Anh_Minh
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I don't really care about the pairings, but it infuriates me how willing to push the financial aid students under the bus Chisato is.

I think she may be wrong, too. It's possible the bullying is the fact of a very small part of the population, but the bulk is too cowardly or apathetic to do anything about it. They could view a vote for a defender of the financial aids as a way to feel good about themselves at no cost to themselves.

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2012-09-08 at 08:19.
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Old 2012-09-08, 08:07   Link #1060
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It's true that they've given far more focus to the mechanics of politics rather than the political philosophies (so much so that I couldn't help but find it ironic) but I do think they actually plan to focus on the policies as well. I mean I can't imagine the scene where Oojima reads Satsuki's manifesto whilst Isara gets bullied to be insignificant in the long run. After that, I was almost certain it would be one of the central issues at the end. In fact after this episode I'm pretty sure it will be. It's still a loose character thread with both Satsuki and Isara and it looks to be an issue on Yakumo's side now that we've learnt that the reason behind his drop is linked to the matter and now that Yumi Osawa has been thrown into the mix.

But still, even if it's not the main focus, it's not okay to force the issues away anyway. That scene where Oojima declares the financial aid students as part of his manifesto was obviously about his policies. And they also know that Satsuki's policies are about the aid students so naturally you'd think the conversation would follow in that direction. But it doesn't. They don't even consider it, even though it's the first thing I'd consider immediately. It's hard to feel for characters when they occasional act completely outside of any sort of logic, even if it's a supposedly minor thing like that. And it's not as if the way Oojima's new found manifesto being affected by Satsuki's manifesto isn't linked to the mechanics of the politics either so they don't really have any reason not to go there anyway.
I get what you're saying, and you're right that it would be best if we saw and heard how Oojima's specific policy was crafted to compete with Satsuki's specific policy. I'd certainly like to see that as well, and I'm even still holding out some faint hope that we might see a candidates debate at some point (even just a few short minutes of that might be nice).

But Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate is balancing an awful lot - Not just its three premises (love, election, and chocolate), but also trying to squeeze in nice moments between Oojima and each of the main heroines. It is a real juggling act. While I admire the ambition behind it, I can't help but think that this anime might have been tighter if it made a clear romantic choice (Clannad-esque) and just ran with that instead of trying to get in something from each and every girl's route (that's my impression anyway, I haven't played the games).


The good news is that Oojima/Chisato will hopefully be resolved (one way or the other) next episode. If the resolution is an Oojima/Chisato romantic end... well, as much as that's not what I want, at least it would allow more focus to be put on the election for the last 2/3 episodes.
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