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Old 2012-09-05, 01:55   Link #1181
bakAnki
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Finally catches up reading Vexed's translation.
Pegasus Fantasy (lol Saint Seiya) was great. Pegasus's shouting while sprinting was hilarious. Can't wait to see it on the season 2, that is if it will covers until this chapter

Speaking of the season 2 of the anime, which scene you're waiting for the most? It's the roller coaster chapter for me. Just imagining Fukuen Misato's voicing snapped Rika makes me chuckle already XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is further compounded by the fact that this isn't only a romantic comedy, but a story that revolves around a club of social misfits and their efforts to make friends.
Yeah, I think this is the case too.
Even I feel that the PSP game, which stand-alone so it could focus more on relationship between Kodaka and just one girl to develop into romance (so I hope ), never did until *very* late game, unlike other similar LN/anime-adapted VN PSP game developed by Bandai (OreImo, Toradora, PapaKiki, etc). And even when it did finally comes into love, the friendship theme still strong.

But maybe, just maaaybe, Kodaka's narration on vol 8 epilogue that the story so far was only a prologue and it will change from unlucky slice-of-life comedy (I forgot his exact words >.<) to love comedy isn't all joking?
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Old 2012-09-05, 05:40   Link #1182
mironicus
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Quote:
But maybe, just maaaybe, Kodaka's narration on vol 8 epilogue that the story so far was only a prologue and it will change from unlucky slice-of-life comedy (I forgot his exact words >.<) to love comedy isn't all joking?
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-09-05, 19:12   Link #1183
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Just been browsing the thread for a bit, and I thought now was as good of a time as ever to voice my opinion. Now in regards to the recent confession development, personally I think some of you guys are rushing into it a bit. Just because one of the love-interests confessed doesn't automatically signal the end of the series/those characters hooking up (Examples include Seitokai no Ichizon, Kokoro Connect, Negima, etc). With that said you also have to look at the possibility Kodoka himself is not ready for a relationship. The guy has spent years friendless, the only true experience of friendship he had was with Sora, and at the time he was under the impression that Sora was a guy. I personally don't think the guy is ready to have a romantic relationship yet, not to mention the fact that if Sena and Kodoka started dating with their current reputations they may ruin his chances of getting friends (Outside of the Club) even more.

Now on the topic of Sena's confession, I think it would be better if Kodoka rejected her for now. I am not saying this because I'm against the Sena ship or anything, I love all the characters in this story so I'm perfectly fine with the end couple no matter who it is, but I don't think she's matured enough for it. If Kodoka rejects Sena it will further along her character development, as a previous poster stated already (Apologies for not remembering your Username), Sena had said she doesn't know what its like to be rejected by a guy. This is one of the biggest reasons why she can't sympathize with the girls in her class, she doesn't know what it feels like to be in their shoes. Let's be honest here, if this was any other series Sena would be the one categorized as the 'Alpha Bitch'. She been privileged since birth, naturally attractive, and is also naturally intelligent; all these traits combined makes her unable to understand other people's situations. She doesn't know what its like to fail at tests, she doesn't know what its like to not have enough money to buy something, she doesn't know what its like to not be fawned over by men; overall all she hasn't experienced the fact that she can't always get what she wants. Due to these reason I believe Kodoka rejecting her would be the first step to getting along with her female classmates.

Now in regards to Yozora, I find that a lot of you guys are massively downplaying how traumatic her experience was. Now I am no expert on the subject, I am only studying Psychology right now so don't cite me as an expert or anything; and all my observations are purely based on what has been stated in the novels so far. But from what I can see from the what has happened so far is that the experience of Taka leaving so suddenly was the defining moment in creating Yozora's current personality. From what I can observe Yozora may have actually have developed a social disorder from the event. People who suddenly lose a person they cared for early on in their life develop a mentality that making future connections is pointless. They think, "What's the point of becoming friends with these people if they are just going to disappear later on?" Eventually they simply give up on society and cling desperately to their lost connection. Yozora is clearly living in the past, her entire motivation throughout the series was to recreate the friendship Sora and Taka had 10 years back. Then there's the fact that she blames herself for what happened back then. Remember back when the club was telling scary stories, and Yozora was scared of her own story? One of biggest things about scary stories is that the person telling the story must be terrified of it themselves in order to make it believable. Yozora's story was about a person betraying their own best friend and being punished for it. In order to create a believable scary story Yozora used her biggest fear to create her. In other words Yozora didn't just regret not showing up at the meeting, she felt what she she betrayed Taka by not showing up. I'm sure all of you know a child's mentality for responsibility, if a kid knows they did something wrong they will try to redirect the blame, this is completely normal for a child. However if the child knows something bad has happened but they don't know the reason why they will assume its their fault. To Yozora the act of not showing up caused Taka to move away immediately afterwards, she didn't know the reason why he left, all she knew was that she wasn't there and then he was gone. And so without knowing who to blame for it she placed all the blame on herself, believing that it was her fault Taka moved away, and making friendships with other people will just cause more problems in the future.

Before you guys start saying that Yozora's experience wasn't that big of a deal and Kodoka managed to get over it, I just want to say its not that simple. At the risk of sounding biased towards Yozora's side I want to go out and say I can fully empathize what she's going through since I went through an extremely similar experience as her. Those kinds of scars don't just go away, that kind of thing affects your entire way of interacting with people; and I can tell you one pep talk is not enough to solve those issues. Leaving aside any possible family problems that may help to explain her current personality, just the event of Taka disappearing is more than enough reason for her to, as some of you have termed it, be such a bitch. I can understand why she acts that way, I myself am known to my friends as "That a**hole", and they fully acknowledge I can be a jerk sometimes, but they understand that I have good reasons to act rude most of the time.

Now in regards to the so called "genre shift" that the series is going through, I personally don't think it is going through one at all. It was my impression that this series was a deconstruction of the Harem genre from the start. Kodoka himself is a perfect deconstruction of the oblivious harem protagonist, the story is told completely from his point of view, all the stuff he hears we hear, He purposefully ignored the muttering the various heroines said, and pretended to not understand their obvious romantic interest in him. The only real change is story now is a massive push towards character development for the protagonist and the rest of the cast.

Whew, that was a mouth full, apologies for the essay long reply but this series is surprisingly deep so there is a lot of material for me to work with. If any of you have an issue with what I said remember this is only my personal opinion. As long as you don't rage at me, criticism is always welcomed! (^▽^)
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Old 2012-09-05, 20:26   Link #1184
potchip
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Don't necessarily believe the series is all the coherent - the writing can be insightful if convenient (eg when Kodaka observing the girls' behaviour/change) and dense as usual when it comes to Kodaka himself or when romantic overture is encountered.

Don't subscribe to the theory Yozora is overly traumatised or even felt herself betrayed - she just doesn't quite understand, and not the most reasonable/forgiving person so was never at peace. The problem with Yozora is her capacity to love/show affection is mostly hidden from view, to the point we question if it even exists.

Agree with the part that the Sora/Taka friendship was special. None of the current friendship can replace that - it is first love in friendship terms - when both had no baggages and the feelings pure and heartfelt. But of course time and people change and the tragedy is Yozora still hopes to recapture the past when it is plainly obvious not possible.

The characters themselves are mostly cut-out tropes and remain consistently so and oblivious to their own flaws. One of the hallmark of slapstick comedy is you can predict the behaviour of characters who's established their pattern. Sena will be dismissive, Yozora will be brooding, Maria will be abrasive etc. It is only via narration and other characters (particular Rika, a more perceptive character aside from Kodaka) that HINTS of changing behaviour are noted.

Nice to have new contributors who are not particularly baised for a change.
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Old 2012-09-05, 20:45   Link #1185
novalysis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post

So anyway... because I know how this sort of debate thinking goes, I want to emphasize again that I am not saying this because I'm anti-Sena or pro anyone else. In honest truth, Sena is my favourite heroine in this story, and I think she and Kodaka would be a great couple... but I do not think the time is right from a storytelling perspective. Not yet, anyway.
Spoiler for Volume 8 Territory:


It is still possible to keep within the theme of friendship, and explore the concept of romance. Indeed, I think Hagani has been moving towards the exploration of the effects of romance on a circle of friends.

The thing is, for Kodaka right now, there's no Friendzone once he accepts someone. That concept doesn't exist for him - he is assuming that once he friendzones everyone but one, his circle of friends would disintegrate.

I've noticed that there's a trend where LN characters feel richer once you get access to their internal monologue. Kyon, for example, I'd think would be very boring if we didn't have private access to his snarky narration.
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Old 2012-09-05, 20:51   Link #1186
evil|plushie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollownerox View Post
Now in regards to Yozora, I find that a lot of you guys are massively downplaying how traumatic her experience was. Now I am no expert on the subject, I am only studying Psychology right now so don't cite me as an expert or anything; and all my observations are purely based on what has been stated in the novels so far. But from what I can see from the what has happened so far is that the experience of Taka leaving so suddenly was the defining moment in creating Yozora's current personality. From what I can observe Yozora may have actually have developed a social disorder from the event. People who suddenly lose a person they cared for early on in their life develop a mentality that making future connections is pointless. They think, "What's the point of becoming friends with these people if they are just going to disappear later on?" Eventually they simply give up on society and cling desperately to their lost connection. Yozora is clearly living in the past, her entire motivation throughout the series was to recreate the friendship Sora and Taka had 10 years back. Then there's the fact that she blames herself for what happened back then. Remember back when the club was telling scary stories, and Yozora was scared of her own story? One of biggest things about scary stories is that the person telling the story must be terrified of it themselves in order to make it believable. Yozora's story was about a person betraying their own best friend and being punished for it. In order to create a believable scary story Yozora used her biggest fear to create her. In other words Yozora didn't just regret not showing up at the meeting, she felt what she she betrayed Taka by not showing up. I'm sure all of you know a child's mentality for responsibility, if a kid knows they did something wrong they will try to redirect the blame, this is completely normal for a child. However if the child knows something bad has happened but they don't know the reason why they will assume its their fault. To Yozora the act of not showing up caused Taka to move away immediately afterwards, she didn't know the reason why he left, all she knew was that she wasn't there and then he was gone. And so without knowing who to blame for it she placed all the blame on herself, believing that it was her fault Taka moved away, and making friendships with other people will just cause more problems in the future.

Before you guys start saying that Yozora's experience wasn't that big of a deal and Kodoka managed to get over it, I just want to say its not that simple. At the risk of sounding biased towards Yozora's side I want to go out and say I can fully empathize what she's going through since I went through an extremely similar experience as her. Those kinds of scars don't just go away, that kind of thing affects your entire way of interacting with people; and I can tell you one pep talk is not enough to solve those issues. Leaving aside any possible family problems that may help to explain her current personality, just the event of Taka disappearing is more than enough reason for her to, as some of you have termed it, be such a bitch.
I think you're overthinking it. I've mentioned this before but Yozora as a kid, was actually friendly and outgoing. She was the type who would go and protect someone from bullies. I find it hard to believe Kodaka was the only one she was friends with at the time. Might he have been her best friend? Yeah, sure. Only friend? Unlikely. Like I said, I find it hard to believe Yozora's trauma is solely because of Kodaka.

Plus kids as a whole are naturally more resistant to trauma than adults; probably because they don't overthink things.
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Old 2012-09-05, 20:53   Link #1187
Aeshma
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I think you are reading way too much into this. You canīt trace her current personality down to a single defining event, unless we are talking about an anime character or such.

oh right, my bad
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Old 2012-09-05, 21:49   Link #1188
potchip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I've noticed that there's a trend where LN characters feel richer once you get access to their internal monologue. Kyon, for example, I'd think would be very boring if we didn't have private access to his snarky narration.
You have to distinguish LN narrator's ROLE vs the narrator as a character's personality. Perhaps I'm jaded, I automatically filter out parts that I recognises as narration (which is all too common) and treat it as such. An analogy is a policeman may be stern as dictated by his job but that doesn't mean he has to have the policeman persona away from the job. Kodaka is snarky or perceptive when the narration calls for him to alert viewers of OTHER character's traits. Eg noting a change, or something that reinforces a character's defined personality. On the other hand, when it comes to Kodaka's OWN self deprecating monologue about himself, you can safely conclude that it is himself. The two sides of Kodaka are not necessarily consistent and I do not believe they should be lumped together.

Kodaka on the scale of things is mostly a narrator rather than a fleshed out character. For we still don't understand the motive - what drives Kodaka. As for an exmple for a similar male, harem lead character in a light novel that actually has fleshed out personality - look no further than Haganai's collaboration partner Seitogai's Ken.

Had a chuckle about comments re: overthinking. When you start to cross into character motives/cause and effect, you are already overthinking. The only difference is in the opinion.
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Old 2012-09-05, 22:26   Link #1189
evil|plushie
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Kodaka wants to be a riajuu, a normal and have friends. What's not to get?
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Old 2012-09-05, 23:03   Link #1190
potchip
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And at the same time running away from any development from the superficial and convinced it is a form of preservation?

So says Sena who just wants to make female friends while summarily dismiss her classmates as bitches who are just jealous.

Or Yozora who stated goal for the club is to practice friendship but never acknowledged any friendship?

So if all characters in one way or another cannot overcome their own issues, other than a statement of intent, how do one judge a person's personality, on what they claim or do?
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Old 2012-09-06, 01:54   Link #1191
zeniselv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|Plushie
kids as a whole are naturally more resistant to trauma than adults; probably because they don't overthink things.
i really think the yamiko ghost story she told in the kashiwazaki villa have something to do with her past.
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Old 2012-09-06, 02:36   Link #1192
evil|plushie
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Originally Posted by potchip View Post
And at the same time running away from any development from the superficial and convinced it is a form of preservation?
You know how you'll see people who like their friends but will never tell them because they don't want to ruin their friendship? Yeah. That's sorta like the reverse Kodaka

Quote:
So says Sena who just wants to make female friends while summarily dismiss her classmates as bitches who are just jealous.
To be fair, they are jealous.

Quote:
Or Yozora who stated goal for the club is to practice friendship but never acknowledged any friendship?
In other news, Yozora is a lying liar who lies.
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Old 2012-09-06, 02:51   Link #1193
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She started the club just for Kodaka and him alone. She never thought anyone would've guessed the flyer's little code out. Doubt that deserves for her to be raked over the coals, but to each his own I suppose...
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Old 2012-09-07, 02:10   Link #1194
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Vexed released another chapter. According to him releases are going to be more constant now due to his new schedule. This is the second release this week, btw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodaka
"IS A DAMN GIANT RIP- OFFFFFFFFFFFF!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yozora
"...I'm sorry"
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Old 2012-09-07, 16:18   Link #1195
Hollownerox
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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
I think you're overthinking it. I've mentioned this before but Yozora as a kid, was actually friendly and outgoing. She was the type who would go and protect someone from bullies. I find it hard to believe Kodaka was the only one she was friends with at the time. Might he have been her best friend? Yeah, sure. Only friend? Unlikely. Like I said, I find it hard to believe Yozora's trauma is solely because of Kodaka.

Plus kids as a whole are naturally more resistant to trauma than adults; probably because they don't overthink things.
True I might be over-thinking it a bit, but to be honest the most we have been given about Yozora's past was the single event, and that's all I had to work with.

But leaving that aside, does anyone else want some more Yukimura backstory or is that just me? I mean how messed up does your "family circumstances" have to be to raise your female child as a boy to such an extent! I mean I can think of a few reasons why, (Family needed a heir, but the only child born was female, political reasons, very traditional, etc) but still, that sh*t can cause some real identity issues...

*EDIT*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
Vexed released another chapter. According to him releases are going to be more constant now due to his new schedule. This is the second release this week, btw
Always nice to have an update, and in this case Yozora does deserve to be on the short end of the stick for this one; plagiarism tsk tsk tsk.
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Old 2012-09-07, 16:21   Link #1196
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Her family is that of an Yakuza clan. Probably the most reasonable reason.
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Old 2012-09-07, 21:33   Link #1197
Miraluka
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Vexed released another chapter. According to him releases are going to be more constant now due to his new schedule. This is the second release this week, btw
This proves how much Yozora is a backslash device .
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Old 2012-09-08, 02:24   Link #1198
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Hirasaka Yomi really makes a fool out of everyone who never objected against Yozoras bad personality from the very first start.
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Old 2012-09-08, 03:11   Link #1199
zeniselv
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Hirasaka Yomi really makes a fool out of everyone who never objected against Yozoras bad personality from the very first start.
why is that?
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Old 2012-09-08, 04:52   Link #1200
mironicus
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Don't you feel betrayed how he let Yozora fall? Up until now she only falls.

He let her pay for everything evil she has ever done and let her suffer in a very humiliating way. It's like the author uses Yozora just to take out his own anger on her (plagiarism).

The public opinion about Yozora will likely drop down to zero while the second season of the anime will be shown.

So the outcome is perhaps really so simple?

The good girl wins because she is good.
The bad girl looses because she is bad.

Last edited by mironicus; 2012-09-08 at 05:40.
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