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Old 2012-09-08, 14:54   Link #1841
Guardian Enzo
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Hmmm. For me, that was easily the weakest ep since episode 4. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. It's remarkable that an episode can come off as overdramatic and anti-climactic at the same time, but that was how it played for me.

I was expecting more out of the conclusion to this arc, really. I never bought Nagase and Inaba's confrontation, which felt manufactured. And I think all three characters are ill-served by reducing the arc to the two girls doing battle over Taichi, whose own feelings are irrelevant. He's always been more of a plot-driver than a fully-realized character anyway, but that's never been quite so literal as it was made to be by the way this arc concluded.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:05   Link #1842
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Hmmm. For me, that was easily the weakest ep since episode 4. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. It's remarkable that an episode can come off as overdramatic and anti-climactic at the same time, but that was how it played for me.

I was expecting more out of the conclusion to this arc, really. I never bought Nagase and Inaba's confrontation, which felt manufactured. And I think all three characters are ill-served by reducing the arc to the two girls doing battle over Taichi, whose own feelings are irrelevant. He's always been more of a plot-driver than a fully-realized character anyway, but that's never been quite so literal as it was made to be by the way this arc concluded.
I agree wholeheartedly with you there. When Himeko started the already usual self-aware dialog during the conversation with Iori I was thrown out of the experience for the first time since the show started. There's just no way a teenager could have that much insight on herself and be able to so coherently convey it like the show did. And then the drama dial was turned to 11 and it just got ridiculous.

To top it all off we have that punch in the stomach joke that was a bit over the top imho. I was actually expecting her to slap him on the cheek before bursting into tears but they proceeded to overblown everything with the aforementioned punch and one of the most overblown crying scenes I've seen in a while.

On the plus side the talk between her and Taichi about that large fall at the beginning was pretty cute with how Himeko blushed at the end. Also the final confession scene was pretty nicely handled imho since it was very much in character for her to do it that way.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:12   Link #1843
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I'm placing "cut on finger" on list of things anime characters are apprentenly very weak to along with rain water.

Rainwater: a minute more of contact with rainwater will send the character into pneumonia forcing them to miss school for a few days

Cut on finger: OMG, quick go to the hospital/nurse before you will literally die of bloodloss or osmething.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:13   Link #1844
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There's just no way a teenager could have that much insight on herself and be able to so coherently convey it like the show did.
You underestimate teenagers, especially someone who is in the first year of high school.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:21   Link #1845
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Light Novel readers would recall what I've said about certain individuals regarding this episode


However I did felt that something was abit off with the presentation and direction this week- Essentially the things that are suppose to happen did happen, but I couldn't shake this odd feeling throughout .

Mah~ I'll let the more 'specialized' experts sort that out in the only why they know how, for me I'm just glad to see Inaban finally evolving into her 'True Form' with that confession That reaction to her own kiss is totally avatar material
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:23   Link #1846
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At some level, I think that Kokoro Connect is a victim of its own hype. In other words, it's been made out to be more ambitious than what it actually is, which I think ironically makes it harder to recognize some of its charms and strengths.

Kokoro Connect is a nice, thought-provoking show with interesting character interactions and plot developments... as long as you remember that, truth be told, it plays things pretty safe.

What I mean by "plays things pretty safe", is that there's certain self-limitations that the show strictly abides by. You know how some characters have plot shields? Well, this entire group of friends have something similar in that the plot "shields" them from any serious, lasting internal divisions.

Going into this episode, I have to admit I was hoping for Inaba and Iori's relationship to become seriously strained with the realization that they both love the same guy. I was hoping for some real drama and continuing conflict there. But the anime chose the Shana/Kazumi approach instead, because it plays things safe with the whole "Friendship Always Triumphs" approach that you see in a lot of anime shows.

I get the emotional appeal of that old approach, and I have to admit that Episode 10 had some very nice, heartwarming moments because of it, but it does feel anti-climatic given the high expectations that tends to come with this show. Basically, Kokoro Connect doesn't go off the well-trodden "anime" path as much as I'd like... but it also maneuvers down that well-trodden path better than most.

While Inaba's crying spell after Heartseed's bit was a kinda overdone for me, I really liked her in the rest of the episode. This episode certainly showcased her more intensely emotional, passionate, lovestruck, and friendship-desiring side. On the whole, I think this was a good episode for her character, just a touch overdone in a scene or two. And I have to admit the kiss bit was really nice and smooth.

8/10 for this latest episode of Kokoro Connect. I'm looking forward to more.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:30   Link #1847
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While Inaban was crying really hard, I thought it was good. Considering its pretty much all her pent-up stress from the first and second arc combined finally flowing out.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:31   Link #1848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You underestimate teenagers, especially someone who is in the first year of high school.
While I'm perfectly aware of how teenagers are apt at self-analysis (I was prone to such over-the-top analysis myself ) I just felt that whole scene to feel off. There was something about the dialog that sounded overly complex given the emotions that she was meant to be experiencing.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:31   Link #1849
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Well, another up and down episode. Iori was pretty good, although, as much as her speech was positive, I kinda feel it can so easily backfire. I mean, Taichi did the same thing to her when he said he'd recognise her no matter who she was in the last arc, and then got found out, and here she promises something she has no idea she can keep (then again, these are teenagers). No doubt Iori would be hurt bad if Inaba won. And to put on a fake smile for them would be too cruel, just so that they can stay friends. Seriously? And if Iori suddenly easily moves on, it'll feel like she never truly liked Taichi in the first place anyway, cheapening the whole thing. Seems like one of those typical KC things where you say/do stuff for a quick fix without thinking about further, heavier consequences.

I don't mind having a love triangle. True Tears did it well (to a certain degree), so it can be done. But somehow I feel KC won't reach that level. Especially given how some things have been hit or miss in the series. Inaba's kiss steal at the end points that out. I mean, what, now Iori and Taichi aren't a couple? They have to revert down to accommodate Inaba? And Taichi of course will play the doofus who 'couldn't stop the kiss' or who 'accidentally' gropes someone. The harem usual. Love triangles are messy and seldom get done right/well. The kiss seems more to showcase Inaba's change more than anything, which is kinda stupid. It doesn't help that I find Taichi 'meh'.

And that's not even touching the whole 'desire gimmick'. These gimmicks really are just to highlight issues rather than be anything really substantial in and of themselves. I won't think about it too much next time. The cat scene was...something I kind of expected actually. I was hoping Inaba would spit out she loved Taichi there and then so that everyone knew. Would make things a bit more interesting.

And finally...why does Inaba kissing her bloodied finger indicate she likes Taichi? And I mean that direct action (I know you could - and thus Iori could - deduce it from the way she was acting before, and then add the kiss on to that), but that scene itself? Made little sense to me, especially since Taichi didn't even touch the bleeding part. There was an awesome, and very similar, scene like that in Toradora!, but it made sense there. Here, I was like, 'huh?'.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:32   Link #1850
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I don't really see this so much a problem of expectations as execution, frankly. I actually do think that KC is a pretty ambitious show, and it tries to explore questions most anime steer clear of. But sometimes the dog walks the man, and it seems as if the drama takes on a manufactured, false quality. It happened in episode 4, and it happened here.

And how disappointing is it that ten episodes in, we still don't have any real idea of who Taichi is or what motivates him? There's a certain symmetry to seeing him quite literally being reduced to a prize to be fought over by Inaba and Nagase, his own feelings and personality irrelevant to the proceedings. It's as if his role as a device was formalized into the plot itself.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:36   Link #1851
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And I think all three characters are ill-served by reducing the arc to the two girls doing battle over Taichi, whose own feelings are irrelevant. He's always been more of a plot-driver than a fully-realized character anyway, but that's never been quite so literal as it was made to be by the way this arc concluded.
This episode left a bad aftertaste for me in regards to Taichi's character. Mainly because the whole "fighting over a guy" thing works only with undeveloped male characters, who aren't there to have a will of their own but to serve as a self-insert that will keep all options open. For me it's another case of the show being dragged down by overused anime tropes.

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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You underestimate teenagers, especially someone who is in the first year of high school.
Ugh, yes! It's scary how many people see teenagers as little children incapable of serious self-introspection. I went through an existential crisis when I was 12 and pretty much dealt with similar issues and Inaba and Iori at their age.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:42   Link #1852
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
And how disappointing is it that ten episodes in, we still don't have any real idea of who Taichi is or what motivates him? There's a certain symmetry to seeing him quite literally being reduced to a prize to be fought over by Inaba and Nagase, his own feelings and personality irrelevant to the proceedings. It's as if his role as a device was formalized into the plot itself.

Not really, I don't see it as 10 episodes of a 13(17) episode show, but rather 2 volumes of a currently 9 volumes story. I certainly don't see him reduced as a prize considering this story isn't always focus on their love relationship, and there's plenty of other things he can do other than sit around and wait for it.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-09-08 at 15:52.
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Old 2012-09-08, 15:54   Link #1853
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Not really, I don't see it as 10 episodes of a 13(17) episode show, but rather 2 volumes of a currently 9 volumes story. I certainly don't see him reduced as a prize considering this story isn't always focus on their love relationship, and there's plenty of other things he can do other than sit around and wait for it.
But he hasn't done any of those things, that's the problem. He's just a device, he's not a person.

I can't look at this as "Two of Nine" because in anime terms, things are almost over. And an anime that makes you consult the source material to understand a character has failed as an adaptation in regards to that character.
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Old 2012-09-08, 16:00   Link #1854
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Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
I'm placing "cut on finger" on list of things anime characters are apprentenly very weak to along with rain water.

Rainwater: a minute more of contact with rainwater will send the character into pneumonia forcing them to miss school for a few days

Cut on finger: OMG, quick go to the hospital/nurse before you will literally die of bloodloss or osmething.
Have you seen how much blood pressure anime characters have?

I'm happy about the progress made this week though, like others, felt the melodrama was a bit much for my tastes. I think that we definitely saw some of Iori's real, non manufactured feelings come through. As for Himeko, looks like she meant what she said when she's going for it. At least she's not doing it behind Iori's back, which really would drive them apart.

In relation to Himeko's punch, I just kind of rolled my eyes over it. Yeah, it's annoying, but I expected it from that character/ this show's writing, so it didn't inspire rage... only resignation.

All in all not a terrible episode, but the best thing about it is simply setting up my expections on what can happen in the next couple of episodes thanks to Iori and Himeko's newly declared tug-of-war over Taichi.
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Old 2012-09-08, 16:01   Link #1855
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I can't look at this as "Two of Nine" because in anime terms, things are almost over. And an anime that makes you consult the source material to understand a character has failed as an adaptation in regards to that character.
It hasn't failed "as an adaptation", it's failed as a standalone story, if you imagine that was ever their intention. As an adaptation, if things aren't yet revealed in the source material and are coming later, it makes the most sense for the anime to hold off on those elements and wait for them to be revealed as the source reveals them, because their goal is to present the original story in animated form. Them randomly changing things could have an unknown impact on the timeline of the story. In particular with this adaptation, each arc is named precisely to match the novel titles, so they've made it pretty clear they're adapting each novel, not creating a new story based on the novels. So even if the anime ends, they never claimed that was the whole story -- they just animated the first four novels.
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Old 2012-09-08, 16:02   Link #1856
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But he hasn't done any of those things, that's the problem. He's just a device, he's not a person.
Well what does it take to be a human/person in your eyes then?
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Old 2012-09-08, 16:03   Link #1857
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You mean the one that's DVD-only?
Yes. That's when things are truly shaken up for Taichi.

And relentlessflame, I don't believe that was really a discussion which "reveal future information form the novels".
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Old 2012-09-08, 16:04   Link #1858
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Well, another up and down episode. Iori was pretty good, although, as much as her speech was positive, I kinda feel it can so easily backfire. I mean, Taichi did the same thing to her when he said he'd recognise her no matter who she was in the last arc, and then got found out, and here she promises something she has no idea she can keep (then again, these are teenagers). No doubt Iori would be hurt bad if Inaba won. And to put on a fake smile for them would be too cruel, just so that they can stay friends. Seriously? And if Iori suddenly easily moves on, it'll feel like she never truly liked Taichi in the first place anyway, cheapening the whole thing. Seems like one of those typical KC things where you say/do stuff for a quick fix without thinking about further, heavier consequences.

I don't mind having a love triangle. True Tears did it well (to a certain degree), so it can be done. But somehow I feel KC won't reach that level. Especially given how some things have been hit or miss in the series. Inaba's kiss steal at the end points that out. I mean, what, now Iori and Taichi aren't a couple? They have to revert down to accommodate Inaba? And Taichi of course will play the doofus who 'couldn't stop the kiss' or who 'accidentally' gropes someone. The harem usual. Love triangles are messy and seldom get done right/well. The kiss seems more to showcase Inaba's change more than anything, which is kinda stupid. It doesn't help that I find Taichi 'meh'.

And that's not even touching the whole 'desire gimmick'. These gimmicks really are just to highlight issues rather than be anything really substantial in and of themselves. I won't think about it too much next time. The cat scene was...something I kind of expected actually. I was hoping Inaba would spit out she loved Taichi there and then so that everyone knew. Would make things a bit more interesting.

And finally...why does Inaba kissing her bloodied finger indicate she likes Taichi? And I mean that direct action (I know you could - and thus Iori could - deduce it from the way she was acting before, and then add the kiss on to that), but that scene itself? Made little sense to me, especially since Taichi didn't even touch the bleeding part. There was an awesome, and very similar, scene like that in Toradora!, but it made sense there. Here, I was like, 'huh?'.
You pretty much nailed down what bothered me in this episode. If Iori just gets over losing Taichi (which she'll probably have to, since Inaba is more developed for the role of a girlfriend both emotionally and sexually) it'll just look like she didn't care much about him in the first place. Actually, it already does. Now that the whole unleashing of desires business is over, what's stopping her and Taichi from truly getting together? Taichi loves her and she loves him. They both said it. And yet now Iori is stepping down to Inaba's level, despite the fact that she has no reason to do so. Letting Inaba have a sporting chance is worse than honestly telling her she should get over Taichi, who is taken.

I also thought the bloodied finger wasn't a good enough hint. I mean, I'm glad Iori didn't have to spend 5 more episodes figuring out that Inaba likes Taichi, but deducing it from her touching her fingercut...seemed kinda unconvincing.

I wish the gimmicks were done in a more creative and intelligent way, but so far they haven't really been used for much that couldn't be achieved normally. It's like they're there to artificially spice up a scene, rather than actually be a part of the plot and a major way to develop the characters, as you'd expect something intrusive like that to be.
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Old 2012-09-08, 16:06   Link #1859
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Originally Posted by Sphire View Post
Well, another up and down episode. Iori was pretty good, although, as much as her speech was positive, I kinda feel it can so easily backfire. I mean, Taichi did the same thing to her when he said he'd recognise her no matter who she was in the last arc, and then got found out, and here she promises something she has no idea she can keep (then again, these are teenagers). No doubt Iori would be hurt bad if Inaba won. And to put on a fake smile for them would be too cruel, just so that they can stay friends. Seriously? And if Iori suddenly easily moves on, it'll feel like she never truly liked Taichi in the first place anyway, cheapening the whole thing. Seems like one of those typical KC things where you say/do stuff for a quick fix without thinking about further, heavier consequences.
This is part of the reason why the dialogue doesn't bother me as much as it once did. The KC club do come off as smart and generally knowledgeable and good at self-reflection... but also as pretty naive. That naivety makes them more believable as teenaged characters, imo. They say what sounds good and sounds right without really thinking through if things are likely to work out as smoothly as they hope. In other words, their dialogue has that self-aware quality but its also lightly tinged with naivety and a touch of idealism, which causes them to feel like real teenagers to me.


Quote:
I don't mind having a love triangle. True Tears did it well (to a certain degree), so it can be done. But somehow I feel KC won't reach that level. Especially given how some things have been hit or miss in the series. Inaba's kiss steal at the end points that out. I mean, what, now Iori and Taichi aren't a couple? They have to revert down to accommodate Inaba? And Taichi of course will play the doofus who 'couldn't stop the kiss' or who 'accidentally' gropes someone. The harem usual. Love triangles are messy and seldom get done right/well. The kiss seems more to showcase Inaba's change more than anything, which is kinda stupid. It doesn't help that I find Taichi 'meh'.
To be fair to Taichi, he did say that him and Iori love one another right now. Here we have Taichi showing more foresight than usual with the "right now" part - Maybe the dude is learning to keep absolute statements down to a manageable minimum.

So Taichi did his part to be faithful to Iori, imo. It's just that Inaba pressed on anyway, and Iori really did kind of bring this situation on both herself and Taichi.

One more thing I want to write in Taichi's defense - Him saving a kitten out of a tree is interesting, precisely because it's such a cliche hero thing to do. It shows that, contrary to what we may have believed before, Taichi's "White Knighting" goes beyond just trying to win over girls. I mean, I didn't see any girls that would clearly benefit from this cat being rescued out of a tree. So while a small gesture, I think it shows that Taichi's heroic side is about more than just impressing girls, and maybe that's a good thing.


Quote:
And finally...why does Inaba kissing her bloodied finger indicate she likes Taichi? And I mean that direct action (I know you could - and thus Iori could - deduce it from the way she was acting before, and then add the kiss on to that), but that scene itself? Made little sense to me, especially since Taichi didn't even touch the bleeding part. There was an awesome, and very similar, scene like that in Toradora!, but it made sense there. Here, I was like, 'huh?'.
I'm with you there. I found that weird too. If Taichi had cut himself, and Inaba had got some of his blood on her finger while bandaging him, then it would make perfect sense. But as is, she's just kissing her own wound, so... ?
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Old 2012-09-08, 16:10   Link #1860
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Well what does it take to be a human/person in your eyes then?
First of all, don't act like Yuuji Sakai. Unless you're meant to be a reactionary tool, don't be a reactionary tool that only does whatever is required to get the plot moving. Also, I know people will say that his "white-knight issue" is what defines him, but that's not really much of a personality, plus it gets tiresome when that's all he ever does.
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