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Old 2012-09-10, 20:01   Link #321
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
people still see football players touching the skin of a pig when they watch the Superbowl.
Maybe if you find someone who uses an antique football. Current footballs (ie: used by the NFL) are made of plastic and rubber.
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Old 2012-09-10, 20:21   Link #322
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Yeah, I saw the art on facebook. I'm half convinced the artist did this on purpose, the idiots had no clue (having failed history), and the artist walked away with their money laughing.

And yeah, this is the end-game of a 30 year effort by essentially the same people who brought us the 1870s, the 1890s, the 1910s, the 1930s (all depressions from reckless speculation and manipulation by unregulated banks/corporations and international trading companies). They want to return to those "good old times" where they made a lot of money and the other 90% of us took it in the backside.
I'm hoping the artist did it as a joke as well, but it's still boggling that it wasn't caught before going to print. It's iconic communist imagery. Even stranger is that this is at least a week old. I thought there'd be more coverage of it given how crazy this election is. Perhaps it's too tame, heh.

The Cato group advocating taking a page from Lenin to dismantle (er, I mean privatize) Social Security is even more eyebrow raising. What is especially fascinating about it is the era (early 80's) and how it proposes accomplishing it: employing the FIRE economy giants to form a coalition that would "educate" people about the "evils" of the program so that they can collect a buck for themselves. I noted one part where it suggests not angering the elderly, due to their voting power, by letting them stay on the program if they're on it. I can see a lot of the Ryan plan in the paper....which just goes to show how long some of these plans are worked on. Definitely long term thinking.

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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Well the hang up seems to be the word "marriage" and its modern religious meanings. The logical approach would be to take the religious part out and make that the seperate but equal section. Everything else would be civil and secular, the only added feature for a "marriage" would be religious based and that varies by religion already anyway.
The only reason it's actually an issue is because a "legal marriage" provides government benefits and legal defenses in case of relationship dispute (like child support). "Defining marriage" is a red herring used by politicians and activists to excite their religious and nonreligious bases. The reality is that Jane and Sara love each other, but Sara went to war and got killed, and now Jane can't get military benefits. The reality is that Jeff and Bob loved each other, but Bob found another man and now there is a custody battle over their adopted daughter Mary.

Those are the types of benefits and complications of legal marriage. Not what part of what genital goes where.

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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Presidential campaigns will pause to mark September 11
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8891DL20120910
Ugh, the anniversary. I'll do what I always do, a silent vigil for all those who lost so much because of it and all that followed it. I'll pass on the coverage and silly punditry.

This year will be interesting though, since no politicians are allowed to speak during the ceremonies.
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Old 2012-09-10, 20:44   Link #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Ugh, the anniversary. I'll do what I always do, a silent vigil for all those who lost so much because of it and all that followed it. I'll pass on the coverage and silly punditry.

This year will be interesting though, since no politicians are allowed to speak during the ceremonies.
Personally, I think its a wretched form of phony patriotism (my wife's employer is calling it "Patriot Day"... wtf is that?) -- the silent vigil speaks to those people directly who lost their lives or were impacted.
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Old 2012-09-10, 21:59   Link #324
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What really bothers me about the 9/11 attacks is that they should have never happened. I remember watching a program and some guy was talking about how he and others that help with national security by monitoring threats had known about an Al Qaeda plot lead by Osama Bin Laden, and they specifically knew that they wanted to hijack planes and fly them into the World Trade Center buildings, as well as hijack other planes and fly them into other targets. This man knew about these attacks almost exactly 2 months before the 9/11 attacks happened and he notified top authorities in the government, Bush administration officials, and he tried to come into contact with president Bush, and government officials were blowing him off and telling him to, essentially, 'shut up and stop causing a ruckus', and never let him contact the president. He was telling these things on camera and you could tell he was frustrated as he told these things. And some people on the right have the nerve to blame president Clinton for 9/11 for never hunting down Osama Bin Laden...

Edit: Ah, decided to leave out a part of my post. Just might not be a good idea to bring it up in this thread. Some might wonder what it was about...oh good, I just found some 'loose change' under my keyboard!
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Old 2012-09-11, 00:25   Link #325
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(offtopic) I'd rather silently think about those innocent lives lost, than to dwell on recriminations and tin-foil conspiracies.
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Old 2012-09-11, 18:26   Link #326
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
(offtopic) I'd rather silently think about those innocent lives lost, than to dwell on recriminations and tin-foil conspiracies.
You are right, best not to get into any of that in this thread. And if someone made a thread for those things, it'd probably only get locked anyway. Which is too bad, as there are things to discuss about with them.
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Old 2012-09-12, 12:21   Link #327
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Romney didn't waste time criticizing Obama's foreign policy in the Middle East after the embassy attacks in order to bolster the foreign policy he doesn't even have!
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Old 2012-09-12, 12:35   Link #328
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The really noteworthy thing however is that Romney's attacks are demonstrably factually untrue. He went on air criticizing Obama before he actually SAID ANYTHING AT ALL. Romney based the attacks on a twitter message (!) sent out by someone at the Cairo embassy.

The Romney campaign is now so desperate in their efforts that they're now not only fabricating and spreading lies (remember the famous "we won't have fact-checkers dictate how to run our campaign" statement?), they started bashing Obama based on something which they invented themselves.

Let me speak frankly:

Dear Americans. If you elect these rotten pieces of human garbage regardless of all this, you deserve whatever catastrophe will unquestionably follow. Please spare the world this ordeal. Thank you.
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Old 2012-09-12, 12:59   Link #329
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Oh dear, Obama is in quite the pickle! The backlash regarding Libya is going to be huge!
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Old 2012-09-12, 13:30   Link #330
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Actualy, some think than Romney's reaction might get him even more backlash.

Foreign Policy Hands Voice Disbelief At Romney Cairo Statement
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/for...-at-romney-cai

Romney and Foreign Policy
http://thepage.time.com/2012/09/12/r...oreign-policy/
Quote:
Unless the Romney campaign has gamed this crisis out in some manner completely invisible to the Gang of 500, his doubling down on criticism of the President for the statement coming out of Cairo is likely to be seen as one of the most craven and ill-advised tactical moves in this entire campaign.
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Old 2012-09-12, 14:18   Link #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Oh dear, Obama is in quite the pickle! The backlash regarding Libya is going to be huge!
I don't think so. As Vexx summed it up earlier, it's idiots vs. idiots.

Right now the story is that an Arabic-dub made few days ago found it's way to some Egyptian Hosts who aired on their network to fan the flame for this incident. The idiots behind the movie went on overdrive to promote this crap at around this time as US nears its election. Apparently one of the biggest promoter of the movie is Terry Jones. The guy who made it supposed to be an Israeli-American who goes by the name of Sam Bacile. Israel says they can't ID the man from their citizen database, so they think he is using an alias or just another home-grown idiot like Terry Jones who incited other idiots. They were looking for a reaction. Well, they succeeded. Unfortunately, people who has nothing to do with any of this paid the ultimate price.
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Old 2012-09-12, 14:35   Link #332
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Originally Posted by monir View Post
I don't think so. As Vexx summed it up earlier, it's idiots vs. idiots.

Right now the story is that an Arabic-dub made few days ago found it's way to some Egyptian Hosts who aired on their network to fan the flame for this incident. The idiots behind the movie went on overdrive to promote this crap at around this time as US nears its election. Apparently one of the biggest promoter of the movie is Terry Jones. The guy who made it supposed to be an Israeli-American who goes by the name of Sam Bacile. Israel says they can't ID the man from their citizen database, so they think he is using an alias or just another home-grown idiot like Terry Jones who incited other idiots. They were looking for a reaction. Well, they succeeded. Unfortunately, people who has nothing to do with any of this paid the ultimate price.

Holy shit. This morning I was thinking "Why would a Jewish person in America make this anti-Islam movie and promote it heavily? Now thanks to him, some people died and some more will likely die from it". But yeah, okay, now it is definitely most likely that some white, Christian guy made the film. That he tried to make it look like a Jewish person made it and caused unrest in the middle east...just so bad. It is all very bad. I can't believe some of the people in my country. The people who made the film deserve all the suffering that'll ever come their way; for creating and promoting something they knew would lead to deaths, all the while trying to frame Jewish people. Some anti-Semitic, Islamiphobe jerkwad better pay for this!

If you think about it, many people in the middle east probably think a native of Israel made the film and the facts won't get sorted out for so many of them for some time, so there is a good chance that their could be terrorist attacks in Israel as a direct result of this film and the misconception of who made it. Yeah, let the people who made that film and promoted it suffer!
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2012-09-12 at 14:56.
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Old 2012-09-12, 14:47   Link #333
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A Jewish person could still have made it. There is an unholy alliance of sorts between extremists Zionists and American Christian Fundamentalists ("End Timers"), and both view Islam "as a cancer".
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Old 2012-09-12, 14:52   Link #334
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
A Jewish person could still have made it. There is an alliance of sorts between extremists Zionists and American Christian Fundamentalists ("End Timers"), and both view Islam "as a cancer".
Maybe it is possible an Israeli made it, but that Israel can't ID this Sam Bacile and that Terry Jones is a big supporter of the film, coupled with how some Christian extremists can be in America, it all paints an emerging picture of the facts; it leads people to suspect the creator of the film isn't Israeli at all but a Christian extremist instead.

I'll wait to see who actually made the film, but knowing how some of the Christian fundamentalists in my country are (such as Terry Jones), I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Christian fundamentalist who made the film.
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Old 2012-09-12, 15:07   Link #335
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I don't care *what* anyone says about *any* religion. There is simply no justification at all for responding with violence. The only result is that I end up "respecting" that religion even less and think it more deserving of the spotlight of analysis. People who care about their religion, whatever it may be, need to step up to the plate and stop these hooligans, wingnuts, and wastes of protein.
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Old 2012-09-12, 15:09   Link #336
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Agreed. Hilary Clinton pretty much summed up that peace can never be attained as long as people are killing other people in the name of religion.
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Old 2012-09-12, 15:19   Link #337
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The BBC suggests that this assault and murder is possibly a terrorist act by a young Libyan Islamist group, Ansar al-Sharia. ABC Today, meanwhile, quoted a Washington Institute academic who blamed Salafists (which he might have considered Ansar al-Sharia as one) and suggested that it was planned before the provocative film trailer was even released. That this incident occurred "in time" for the 9/11 date thus may be of no coincidence. The same article noted that the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood -- the ruling party of Egypt's new democracy -- belatedly condemned the violence but refused to back down on the planned protests over the films in Egypt. Egypt's Morsi had earlier called for the US to punish the filmmakers, but this was before the Benghazi incident. He has yet to release any statements regarding the incident itself. He will have to negotiate the narrow line between dangerously insulting the USA so early in his international career and alienating the extremists within his own party.

Time, however, considered the film a key catalyst of the crisis. Naturally, neither "side" have the right impression of each other; apparently quite a few of the protestors believed that the American government had something to do with the film itself.

The President demanded justice. Libya's leaders were quick to apologize, condemn the attack and promised to deliver, though "we expect the rest of the world to help us face this cowardly acts." In other words, with Libya's own government divided and Benghazi formerly a center of the revolution, justice will be difficult.

This will be an important test in regards to American-Middle Eastern relations in the aftermath of the Arab Spring. In truth, many feared and expected this kind of incident to flare up; some dismissed the very legitimacy of the Arab Spring during the heights of the revolutions and urged repression in favor of pro-US military dictators, and they will say we told you so. I, however, think differently. Justice must be done, Islamist extremists must be marginalized, but democracy must move forward in the Middle East and the USA must not become an enemy force, a force of repression, it must not capitulate to its own extremists such as the ones which made this film if future generations are to have hope for a new kind of relationship that is fundamentally different from today's blind hatreds. I trust the President to handle this correctly and lay the seeds of peace.

I care not for the filmmakers or what they have to say, their hate has led to murder but murder they did not commit. And to pay tribute to hate with hate in turn is precisely why such an attack occurred.

In any case, this is the official statement from Secretary of State Clinton: "a small and savage group, not the country and the people of Libya."


...Mr. Romney can shut the fuck up.

Last edited by Irenicus; 2012-09-12 at 15:31.
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Old 2012-09-12, 15:29   Link #338
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
...Mr. Romney can shut the fuck up.
Given the guy, he won't. Or at best, he will flip-flop once again.
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Old 2012-09-12, 15:31   Link #339
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Given the guy, he won't. Or at best, he will flip-flop once again.
I hate how the motto for the Romney campaign is "Believe in America". I do believe in America, which is why I WON'T vote for the GOP!


@Irenicus: So it looks like things are jumbled up. We don't know to which degree this controversial film has affected the incident in Libya, if at all. I'm still mad at the people who made and promoted the film, though. It will probably lead to the death of innocents, nonetheless.

Annnd...of course, if people are killed by angry Muslims because of the controversial film, the angry Muslims are never to be let off the hook. It always angers me when Muslims kill when their religion is insulted, Mohammed is insulted, or a Qu'ran is damaged or desecrated. They look like the biggest babies in the world when they kill over insults. You know what people usually do when their religion or the central person of their religion is disrespected? They deal with it and move on! If the Torah or Bible is burnt, Jews and Christians don't like that, but they don't gather together in angry mobs and murder people over it. And mean, my God, those people need to get a grip, put on their 'big boy pants', deal with things, and drop it and move on right away. Insulting Islam and Mohammed and damaging or desecrating Qu'rans is disrespectful, but killing people in reaction to those things is just some serious injustice.
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Old 2012-09-12, 16:12   Link #340
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Wow, there's a lot of hate and vitriol starting to build up in this thread.. Let's all calm down and take a step back guys.
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