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Old 2012-09-13, 18:05   Link #23501
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
By the 1970s Taiwan was not a recognized country anymore.
all the better since the PRC can still say the island are in Chinese hands.
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Old 2012-09-13, 18:20   Link #23502
Ithekro
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The US, nor Japan would have been likely to hand China territory in the 1970s.

Besides, aren't China and Taiwan still arguing over who should negotiate with Japan over this anyway. China wants to go as a unified whole, while Taiwan wants to do it alone?
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Old 2012-09-13, 19:08   Link #23503
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
tell japan to give it back to US by Right of Conquest, then tell anyone who wants those island, they can fight the US for it.
Oh, sure, that is a good idea. Let's have a direct confrontation between the US and the PRC in the China Sea. That would do wonders for world peace.
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Old 2012-09-13, 19:16   Link #23504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
tell japan to give it back to US by Right of Conquest, then tell anyone who wants those island, they can fight the US for it.

PS. given those islands to Taiwan back in the 1970s would not make the PRC any happier but it would defuse the issue as it currently stands with Japan.
..........

Just to 1 up the Japanese you would have America stick a piece of territory under China's nose as if the US is a smaller threat to them than Japan? O___o
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Old 2012-09-13, 19:19   Link #23505
Vexx
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Two articles related to the recent murders of the US diplomats

1) Why "freedom of speech" in the US cuts a different direction than much of the world. Even the hateful unpleasant kind which makes it easier to "spot the loonies".
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...otected-speech

2) The Libyans have made some arrests
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19595237

The Libyan prime minister's remarks
Quote:
"The people, they don't understand that such a case like this, the American government has nothing to do with it," he told the BBC.
"Somebody made a film and they put it on YouTube. It was very offensive for sure but that doesn't justify taking this wild actions against Americans or American embassies. People can come out and demonstrate and express their opinion peacefully."
Following the attack, some Libyans have taken part in rallies in Benghazi and Tripoli denouncing the violence.
Libyan Deputy Interior Minister Wanis al-Sharif told reporters that those arrested had been taken from their homes on Thursday but gave no further details.
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Old 2012-09-13, 19:47   Link #23506
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
DonQuigleone wins points. "Sam Bacile" is a Coptic Christian. Yep, someone framed the Jews.
My gut is always right!



As for the Senkakus, from the US point of view I think the status quo is not necessarily so bad in a geopolitical sense. It benefits a lot of countries to keep China and Japan from going buddy buddy on us.
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Old 2012-09-13, 20:22   Link #23507
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
My gut is always right!



As for the Senkakus, from the US point of view I think the status quo is not necessarily so bad in a geopolitical sense. It benefits a lot of countries to keep China and Japan from going buddy buddy on us.
I agree. The world's biggest population of mentally corrupted females CANNOT have good terms with the world's largest population of females. The human race will be extinguised and buried under a never ending pile of BL and yaoi works.
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Old 2012-09-13, 20:32   Link #23508
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
IThe human race will be extinguised and buried under a never ending pile of BL and yaoi works.
Insted of thinking of the worse why not thinking of the best ?Don't tell me than you would dissagree to a yuri fiesta
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Old 2012-09-13, 20:37   Link #23509
Ithekro
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If you are worried about Japanese corruption of China....you are far....far too late.

And it could have come from China to start with...people don't keep track of that kind of thing.
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Old 2012-09-13, 20:40   Link #23510
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
If you are worried about Japanese corruption of China....you are far....far too late.

And it could have come from China to start with...people don't keep track of that kind of thing.
I have read Taiwanese and HK doujin works, and sometimes they display works from mainland doujinshis. It is horrifying to see how the illness has spread.
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Old 2012-09-13, 22:51   Link #23511
Ithekro
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And it is still news because it is happening now(-ish):

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49027621/

China surveillance ships enter waters claimed by Japan
Move is latest in long-running territorial dispute between the two nations

Quote:
Six Chinese surveillance ships entered waters near disputed islands claimed by Tokyo and Beijing on Friday, raising the stakes in a long-running territorial row between Asia's two biggest economies.

China's foreign ministry said that the ships entered the disputed waters to carry out maritime surveillance and that for the first time China was carrying out a mission of "law enforcement over its maritime rights".

"It reflects our government's jurisdiction over the Diaoyu islands," it said in a statement. The ministry has used similar language in the past.
.......

The Japanese coast guard said it ordered the ships to leave Japan's territorial waters, but only two complied, leaving four Chinese vessels still in the disputed area.

No force had been used to remove the Chinese ships, a coast guard official said.

.........
The tensions with Japan come while China's ruling Communist Party is preoccupied with a forthcoming once-in-a-decade leadership change, as well as slowing economic growth.

Japan's ruling Democrats also face an election, probably late this year, which opinion polls suggest they will lose and the government is under fire for its handling of territorial rows with China, and with South Korea over another island chain.

The United States this week urged both sides to tone down increasingly impassioned exchanges over the longstanding row.

The last time Chinese government-affiliated ships entered Japanese territorial waters near the disputed islands was in mid-July, the coast guard said. That incident ended peacefully and without any significant diplomatic fallout.

The Japanese coast guard described those vessels as fishery patrol ships. The latest ships are civilian government vessels maintained by the State Oceanic Administration to patrol waters claimed by China.
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:55   Link #23512
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
As for the Senkakus, from the US point of view I think the status quo is not necessarily so bad in a geopolitical sense. It benefits a lot of countries to keep China and Japan from going buddy buddy on us.
What about Japan itself? I actually believe that it would be beneficial for Japan to have ally in the region. The relationship between Korea is getting worse as well with the territorial dispute. With all the island disputes Japan really doesn't have any ally in East Asia. I mean for now Japan could count the US, but I still feel that Japan, as well as Korea, to try to have rather friendly relationship with China and US.
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Old 2012-09-14, 01:20   Link #23513
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geopolitics doesn't work that way, especially between historically adversarial nations.
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Old 2012-09-14, 02:09   Link #23514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
And it is still news because it is happening now(-ish):

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49027621/

China surveillance ships enter waters claimed by Japan
Move is latest in long-running territorial dispute between the two nations
Looks like the Chinese are just asking the JMSDF to send their own ships in the area, and I hope they will get some (just 3 Abukuma-class ships should do for now in response to the presence of those surveillance ships). I wonder how long the Tokyo government will take before reacting, especially when the Liberals are under heavy flak ahead of the election.

At least, Canada used whatever means that were necessary to make sure Spanish trawlers would back off after illegal overfishing incidents in our waters (the Turbot War in 1995) although Canada got negative replies from a number of EU countries and despite the fact that a referendum in Quebec was brewing up at the time. So, I hope the shrimps in the Diet will show some spine for once here. If I were Japan, there's no way I'd allow tolerating any sign of weakness now when the adversary ahead has virtually no single serious ally.
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Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2012-09-14 at 02:29.
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Old 2012-09-14, 02:36   Link #23515
Ithekro
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Ise would be enough I would think. It either would get submarine attention (what is was reportedly designed for) or the Chinese Carrier to counter it.

It be more amusng if the F-35s were working and aboard, but you can't have everything.
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Old 2012-09-14, 02:39   Link #23516
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China is playing "the first one to launch the missile is the bad one,".... she wants to provoke other countries so that she could fight in so called "aggressive self defense war"... woah!!, that reminds me of Durandal
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Old 2012-09-14, 02:50   Link #23517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
China is playing "the first one to launch the missile is the bad one,".... she wants to provoke other countries so that she could fight in so called "aggressive self defense war"... woah!!, that reminds me of Durandal
Except that China won't get that in this one. Japan spent over 50 years in training their forces for a first strike from either the Soviets, North Korea or China. Meanwhile, the PLA got severely battered the last time they went into open conflict.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Ise would be enough I would think. It either would get submarine attention (what is was reportedly designed for) or the Chinese Carrier to counter it.

It be more amusng if the F-35s were working and aboard, but you can't have everything.
Perhaps a little too early to bring the carrier, but it could be a strong message indeed... just like every time the US are sending one of the Nimitz-class ships.

Having a few F-2s doing a flyby (Top Gun style) around those surveillance ships would be good too.
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Old 2012-09-14, 03:11   Link #23518
SeijiSensei
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I find the level of enthusiasm for a military encounter here rather disturbing. This isn't anime or stupid Hollywood movies, people, this is the real thing. Having two major powers shooting at each other over a couple of rocks is not a good idea no matter which side you may think is correct. And, in this case, the historical evidence is sufficiently murky that it's hard to make a strong case for either side being entirely right or wrong.

The real question is, what would constitute an acceptable diplomatic solution to all these conflicts in the China Sea? What nations might be seen as an honest broker here? Brazil, perhaps, or Indonesia? South Africa? NATO countries are clearly out, as are other major powers with axes to grind like Russia or India. And what would a diplomatic settlement look like? Are there options to exchange an island here for one over there? Some form of multi-national administration? Surely there must be better solutions than military ones.
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Old 2012-09-14, 03:14   Link #23519
aohige
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Well, for senkaku isles, it's not the rocks... I mean the island that matters. It's all that supposed cash underground.

Swapping it out for a substitute just won't fly, for either side.

The best outcome would be "lol nevermind, there's nothing there afterall". And people will lose interest.
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Old 2012-09-14, 03:36   Link #23520
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I find the level of enthusiasm for a military encounter here rather disturbing. This isn't anime or stupid Hollywood movies, people, this is the real thing. Having two major powers shooting at each other over a couple of rocks is not a good idea no matter which side you may think is correct. And, in this case, the historical evidence is sufficiently murky that it's hard to make a strong case for either side being entirely right or wrong.
To be honest, the political reactions from the PRC (typical "me, me, me") have been irking me for a while already and I'm sure I'm not the only one here. Many countries were irked at the German Empire in the early 20th Century because of how hostile they were on the diplomatic front and China are currently no different.

Anyway, someone will have to show Beijing they are nowhere near being the top dog here when acting like such a spoiled brat and I hope Japan will be the one to stand firm on their ground. In short, the spoiled brat deserves a beating and no ground for negotiation after all the time being a diplomatic biatch.
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