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Old 2012-09-13, 01:51   Link #30561
Thunder Book
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Virgilius would have been Ghoda obv. You see, Ghoda is actually a super genius but has to spend so much time cooking he can't ever just sit down and solve the Rokkenjimma murders. Had he been not cooking on October 4th he would have caught the culprit before anything even happened.

Ghoda would also have had a character arc dealing with the duality of being a Magical Chef versus being an Ace Detective. But alas, he gave into his culinary desires and the Ushiromiya family all suffered for it.
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Old 2012-09-13, 02:03   Link #30562
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I'm glad we have Erika too, I love her XDDD
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Old 2012-09-13, 05:34   Link #30563
Captain Bluebeard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeyscraggy View Post
Hey, a new EP7 manga chapter preview was released, and they already started with Clair's story. As far as i can see, there's no sign of Yasu showing, but there are 2 new maids, one of them has a body type that could match with Yasu's age, but still we don't know...
Here's the pic:
Spoiler for EP7 maid's page:

Do you think Yasu will be shown?
I don't think that's Yasu. She looks nothing like an 'underdeveloped nine-year old', (read six year old look-alike). I don't really think they're going to show her at all.

By the way, wouldn't that be really troublesome if a Chiru Anime was ever made?

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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I wouldn't say she's a character to love, but she's certainly a pretty interesting character.
Interesting characters are the only characters to be loved.

Quote:
Maybe the script was just inside his mind, or maybe he just wrote a storyline.
I think it was the first one. We know he took the results of his readers in mind when making a new episode, so while he might have had some ideas for it his readers just wouldn't follow. He's said in Answer to the Golden Witch that the entire 'cat box' and 'braun tube' example was meant to be a really core hint that would be revealed in the end, but since nobody would pieck up on that, we got Virgilia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
I mean, damn, what was Virgilus gonna ... BE in the fantasy/META narrative, I wonder? A demon? A witch? The Con Chair of some of those Witch Hunter cons, that Ange particularly disliked>
Hmm... I don't think he could be a witch hinter, Ange's future wasn't even introduced until the end of that arc (well, we might have got that earlier in Land, who knows...) and I also think Eva surviving was also conceived after the turn of events in Banquet, though that's just an impression.

Probably he could be like... Bern's piece? Since the basis for his character became Erika, it wouldn't be that impossible.

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Originally Posted by Thunder Book View Post
Ghoda would also have had a character arc dealing with the duality of being a Magical Chef versus being an Ace Detective. But alas, he gave into his culinary desires and the Ushiromiya family all suffered for it.
My witch's golden dreamer is a magical Gohda-chef
"I CAN NEVER LOSE IN THE KITCHEN!!!!"

Oh Gohda, your talent all went to waste....

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Originally Posted by battle22 View Post
I'm glad we have Erika too, I love her XDDD
Umineko without Erika just wouldn't be the same Umineko.

Not saying I wouldn't be curious to read that Umineko, I'm just saying.... Erika rules.
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Old 2012-09-13, 08:23   Link #30564
jjblue1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeyscraggy View Post
Hey, a new EP7 manga chapter preview was released, and they already started with Clair's story. As far as i can see, there's no sign of Yasu showing, but there are 2 new maids, one of them has a body type that could match with Yasu's age, but still we don't know...
Here's the pic:
Spoiler for EP7 maid's page:

Do you think Yasu will be shown?
Damn, I want to see it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera View Post
She had breasts... then again, is the manga... but she had breasts... so it was a she after all...
wait, what the hell am I writting? I sound like some sicko, looking at that. Then again, her breasts are plot points...
no, really, this is not a h forum...
But she was so little---
Not necessarily. As the story is told from Yasu's point of view, for all we know she could represent herself as with even more breasts than Beatrice and it would still be 'acceptable' (even if undoubtely it would be a lie).

What's interesting if that one is Yasu the representation given paints her as... let's say someone similar to a Beato with short hair, instead than to someone closer in look to Shannon.

Though I guess it makes sense as we're supposed to guess she and Shannon are the same person... and Beato is, in a fashion Yasu's childish personality.

And I think the breasts effect is more due to the dress than an effective presence of breasts (after all Yasu is supposed to be pretty young, unless that scene is already in a future in which she was working for the Ushiromiya by some years...)

Last edited by jjblue1; 2012-10-16 at 15:22.
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Old 2012-09-13, 09:13   Link #30565
Wanderer
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So, I'm casually translating Our Confessions. I'm slow, and I'm not sure how accurate I am, but it's good practice. What I'm doing is not a summary-translation like LyricalAura, but a detailed one.

I'll release my work in chunks. If anyone good at Japanese has any corrections, ぜひ、知らせてください。

Also, 3 disclaimers:

1) I'm doing this at my leisure, so there are no guarantees whatsoever that I will continue.
2) My source for this seems to have things in a somewhat different order than LyricalAura's. Or something.
3) What I'm releasing today is nothing terribly informative. It's most just Ryuukishi being metaphorical about what Our Confessions is...

Spoiler for The introduction:
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Old 2012-09-13, 09:14   Link #30566
Renall
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Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
It also irks me to realize that Virgilia was only even conceived of as of EP3, so it's entirely possible Kumasawa was gonna be as important as ... like, Hideyoshi, in the original grand scheme of things.
Well... she basically still was, in the end. Sort of the textbook definition of a dropped thread there. Virgilia remained important, but Kumasawa was never really developed past the reveal in Banquet.

Also, I must be the only person who doesn't particularly care for Erika.
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Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
By the way, wouldn't that be really troublesome if a Chiru Anime was ever made?
Only troublesome because Deen can't be trusted to do it properly. A first-person through-the-eyes segment is entirely possible to do in animation, it would just require competence and budget and Deen seems to have had neither.

You would, however, have to give Yasu a voice... though you could handwave it as Claire narrating and then not clearly state that the two have the same voice necessarily.

But perhaps the manga just doesn't give a damn about obscuring her appearance, or perhaps Ryukishi is cool with it. I doubt he'd allow the depiction of the character unless it was acceptable to him that they do so. I honestly don't think it really matters that much. If nothing else, it could've just been laziness since we know he pretty much phoned in the art in Requiem and Twilight outside of Young Ange. He might've been fine with depicting Yasu and just got lazy.
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Old 2012-09-13, 11:40   Link #30567
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
I mean, damn, what was Virgilus gonna ... BE in the fantasy/META narrative, I wonder? A demon? A witch?
If the sketches on that wikia are reliable, Virgilius was supposed to have a one-winged eagle symbol just like Virgilia.

In other words in some way or another he should've been one of Beatrice's servants, but he might've been supposed to be introduced as an antagonist just like Virgilia.

However in future episodes he couldn't have taken Erika's role, as he'd certainly become one of Battler's pawn, like Gaap and Ronove.
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Old 2012-09-13, 12:56   Link #30568
Patchwork Chimera
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Uh...where are you seeing breasts? She's flat as a board.

You also need to keep in mind that in that scene, Yasu is nine years old, legally six.
She's not boy-flat. She's girl-formed flat. And she doesn't seem that much shorter than the other maids, even if she's supposed to have nine.
Now I will recall that mini-maid everytime I talk about Yasu, even if all here know that there's an error.

Quote:
Not necessarily. As the story is told from Yasu's point of view, for all we know she could represent herself as with even more breasts than Beatrice and it would still be 'acceptable' (even if undoubtely it would be a lie).

What's interesting if that one is Yasu the representation given paints her as... let's say someone similar to a Beato with short hair, instead than to someone closer in look to Shannon.

Though I guess it makes sense as we're supposed to guess she and Shannon are the same person... and Beato is, in a fashion Yasu's childish personality.

And I think the breasts effect is more due to the dress than an effective presence of breasts (after all Yasu is supposed to be pretty young, unless that scene is already in a future in which she was working for the Ushiromiya by some years...)
There's a point.
It's really painfully obvious that Yasu is Shannon in the VN, but the Manga has it's own way to do things.
I say because she's not really shorter compared to the busty and maybe 17-- years old maids at her side...
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Old 2012-09-13, 17:24   Link #30569
jjblue1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera View Post
She's not boy-flat. She's girl-formed flat. And she doesn't seem that much shorter than the other maids, even if she's supposed to have nine.
Now I will recall that mini-maid everytime I talk about Yasu, even if all here know that there's an error.

I'm not really sure of her height in that pic due to the perspective. If you look at her shoulders they seem a lot lower than the ones of the maid next to her but it can be due to the perspective so it can be tricky to judge her height. It doesn't help she seems to be next to the tallest maid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera View Post
There's a point.
It's really painfully obvious that Yasu is Shannon in the VN, but the Manga has it's own way to do things.
I say because she's not really shorter compared to the busty and maybe 17-- years old maids at her side...
I admit I'm rather impatient to see it myself as that pic left me a little confuse. The maids at the time were supposed to be Belphegor, Leviathan, Lucifer and Satan (plus Yasu/Shannon). However, while the black haired maid can be Lucifer and the 2 maids next to her can be Leviathan and Satan the other maid doesn't really look like Belphegor... she's more like a very femminine and tall Lion so maybe the manga have more maids than the VN...

Still, I'm curious to see how they'll handle EP 7 and if it'll reveal something more than the VN did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
So, I'm casually translating Our Confessions. I'm slow, and I'm not sure how accurate I am, but it's good practice. What I'm doing is not a summary-translation like LyricalAura, but a detailed one.

I'll release my work in chunks. If anyone good at Japanese has any corrections, ぜひ、知らせてください。

Also, 3 disclaimers:

1) I'm doing this at my leisure, so there are no guarantees whatsoever that I will continue.
2) My source for this seems to have things in a somewhat different order than LyricalAura's. Or something.
3) What I'm releasing today is nothing terribly informative. It's most just Ryuukishi being metaphorical about what Our Confessions is...

Spoiler for The introduction:
Thank you so much for your awesome work!

Last edited by jjblue1; 2012-10-16 at 16:43.
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Old 2012-09-14, 06:31   Link #30570
Captain Bluebeard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
You would, however, have to give Yasu a voice... though you could handwave it as Claire narrating and then not clearly state that the two have the same voice necessarily.
They could give her like.... a unisex voice, like they did with Lion. And Yasu's a child, so it's not that easy to tell her gender by her voice alone.

(okay, 'tell her gender' has to be one of the most ridiculous sentences in the world)

Quote:
I honestly don't think it really matters that much. If nothing else, it could've just been laziness since we know he pretty much phoned in the art in Requiem and Twilight outside of Young Ange. He might've been fine with depicting Yasu and just got lazy.
I really wonder about that. He does cut corners whenever he has the chance to, but I want to think that if he really had no problems depicting Yasu, he'd have the common sense to draw her, which would have been much easier and actually needed for something in comparison to Claire's sprite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
So, I'm casually translating Our Confessions. I'm slow, and I'm not sure how accurate I am, but it's good practice. What I'm doing is not a summary-translation like LyricalAura, but a detailed one.

I'll release my work in chunks. If anyone good at Japanese has any corrections, ぜひ、知らせてください。

Also, 3 disclaimers:

1) I'm doing this at my leisure, so there are no guarantees whatsoever that I will continue.
2) My source for this seems to have things in a somewhat different order than LyricalAura's. Or something.
3) What I'm releasing today is nothing terribly informative. It's most just Ryuukishi being metaphorical about what Our Confessions is...

Spoiler for The introduction:
Thank you very much for your work. Finally, my prayers are being answered!
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Old 2012-09-14, 10:06   Link #30571
Wanderer
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Here's the accomplices scene. It was longer than I expected. I'll be busy for the next few days, so the next part, assuming it happens, won't be for a little while.

Spoiler for Our Confessions - Accomplices:


Spoiler for Thoughts:

Last edited by Wanderer; 2012-09-14 at 18:51.
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Old 2012-09-14, 10:36   Link #30572
Renall
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Random forgery concept: Beatrice tries to make Rudolf and Kyrie accomplices, Kyrie takes Beatrice hostage and starts trying to get at Genji, assuming that he knows enough about the plan to strike a deal with them to give the necessary info to disarm the explosives and give them the gold in exchange for Beatrice's life and silence about what she's revealed to them. Refuse to comply and the other servants start dying, and if necessary, maybe some relatives. It'd all get pinned on Beatrice anyway as the chief conspirator, right?

Would sort of make a better Rudolf/Kyrie Culprit scenario than "lol let's just shoot errybody Rudy" "k."
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Old 2012-09-14, 11:02   Link #30573
Drifloon
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Quote:
Can't people walk to the Kuwadorian on their own? Why is the tunnel the only way?
Kuwadorian is really well hidden and difficult to find, isn't it? I mean, all this time people have suspected its existence and nobody was ever able to get there. (Except Rosa by some incredible fluke.)

But this translation is certainly enlightening...LyricalAura's summary was ambiguous about whether Krauss and Natsuhi actually believed that anyone was being murdered, but this makes it clear that they know. I'm not really sure how I feel about that, assuming that it applies to the game-specific accomplices in the actual episodes...Personally, towards the beginning of each episode at least, I've always had the impression that the accomplices don't think that anything bad is actually happening to the others. I mean, if Eva and Hideyoshi in EP1 knew that everyone but their family was going to be blown up, then what would be the point in them using the receipt to try and get Natsuhi to reveal Kinzo's death? She's going to explode anyway, unless she's an accomplice too. But if that's the case, Natsuhi should start to suspect something once Eva and Hideyoshi, who are also accomplices, get killed...eh, I don't even know any more.
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Old 2012-09-14, 11:42   Link #30574
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Drifloon View Post
Kuwadorian is really well hidden and difficult to find, isn't it? I mean, all this time people have suspected its existence and nobody was ever able to get there. (Except Rosa by some incredible fluke.)
It never made sense for the Kuwadorian to be that well hidden. There's a port not far from it and it should be visible to the naked eye. Also the Kuwadorian should be visible from above since it is implied there's a garden aroud it. On top of that there's a huge fence surrounding it, which means one is bound to bump on it even if he doesn't go directly to the Mansion.

In the end a middle schooler managed to go to and return from Kuwadorian without even caring where she was going, and all of that in less than a single day. After all it's just a 2km wide island, it's really not much. The only problem is the forest that would make travel quite difficult, but apparently it isn't that difficult if a middle schooler managed it.
Anyway if I were to be told such a story I'd rather think it shouldn't be that hard to reach Kuwadorian rather than believing that Rosa was granted a miracle.
In other words I'd take my chances with the forest before becoming the accomplice of a mass murder and putting the life of my family and mine in the hands of a sociopath who's likely to not keep her promise.


At any rate torturing Beatrice seems to be most logical step, I'd try that first and then the forest if that plan failed.


As a side note the accomplices compliance isn't the only hard to believe factor in this story.

Quote:
The island being blown away would probably be treated as an accident.
I don't mean to say that it's impossible that an explosion can happen accidentally, but since when an explosion is assumed to be accidental?
The only thing that is true is that the lack of proofs would make prosecution impossible (albeit the police would most likely try to extort a confession). But just because it can't be determined who is the criminal or if there was a criminal to begin with, you don't assume it was an accident.
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Old 2012-09-14, 11:49   Link #30575
theacefrehley
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There is no 'ommission' in the original
The person who transcribed probably removed some chunks of text before uploading
I have the book and there is no ommissions
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Old 2012-09-14, 12:17   Link #30576
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Random forgery concept: Beatrice tries to make Rudolf and Kyrie accomplices, Kyrie takes Beatrice hostage and starts trying to get at Genji, assuming that he knows enough about the plan to strike a deal with them to give the necessary info to disarm the explosives and give them the gold in exchange for Beatrice's life and silence about what she's revealed to them. Refuse to comply and the other servants start dying, and if necessary, maybe some relatives. It'd all get pinned on Beatrice anyway as the chief conspirator, right?

Would sort of make a better Rudolf/Kyrie Culprit scenario than "lol let's just shoot errybody Rudy" "k."
Rudolf and Kyrie hold Beatrice hostage in a sealed room. Relatives start dying outside anyway.
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Old 2012-09-14, 12:25   Link #30577
jjblue1
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Here's the accomplices scene. It was longer than I expected. I'll be busy for the next few days, so the next part, assuming it happens, won't be for a little while.
I love you for the hard work you're making! Thank you so much!


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Of course the interesting switching between 1st person author Beatrice, and 3rd person Piece Beatrice.

Couldn't be more obvious about the whole shabang being for Battler... and about the mystery novel connection. Not that they were in doubt before...

One still wonders why Krauss would be so ready to believe that there were those explosives. "I wouldn't put it past Kinzo" doesn't mean the same thing as "Oh Kinzo definitely did that". I'd say no matter how crazy Kinzo was it would be 50/50 at best.

Dammit, Krauss, you're too willing to let Maria and Gohda get killed. You didn't even think of them.

Can't people walk to the Kuwadorian on their own? Why is the tunnel the only way?

All this time I never realized that the underground tunnel was directly connected to the VIP room. Is that grate the same one as mentioned in Alliance?

Personally, if threatened like this, I would consider trying to find a chance to capture and torture the bitch for the bomb switch, or at least the grate key.
Yes, undoubtely they're represented as too prone to get along with the witch and this make them look pretty cold and uncaring (and again they apparently misteriously don't realize she's Shannon... I'll say 'poor girl, no one remembers her face' if it wasn't for the fact).
I mean, she might end up killing Krauss' siblings and their cousins... and would you really trust someone who's just saying you she has no qualms to murder everyone and isn't really handing you a way out as of now but might do it in the future?

What if this person changes her mind?

The general impression is they're using Beato's threat to justify themselves into letting the others being killed...
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Old 2012-09-14, 12:50   Link #30578
Patchwork Chimera
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
It never made sense for the Kuwadorian to be that well hidden. There's a port not far from it and it should be visible to the naked eye. Also the Kuwadorian should be visible from above since it is implied there's a garden aroud it. On top of that there's a huge fence surrounding it, which means one is bound to bump on it even if he doesn't go directly to the Mansion.

In the end a middle schooler managed to go to and return from Kuwadorian without even caring where she was going, and all of that in less than a single day. After all it's just a 2km wide island, it's really not much. The only problem is the forest that would make travel quite difficult, but apparently it isn't that difficult if a middle schooler managed it.
Anyway if I were to be told such a story I'd rather think it shouldn't be that hard to reach Kuwadorian rather than believing that Rosa was granted a miracle.
In other words I'd take my chances with the forest before becoming the accomplice of a mass murder and putting the life of my family and mine in the hands of a sociopath who's likely to not keep her promise.


At any rate torturing Beatrice seems to be most logical step, I'd try that first and then the forest if that plan failed.


As a side note the accomplices compliance isn't the only hard to believe factor in this story.
Yeah, that Kuwadorian was so well hidden never made too much sense for me. Krauss for example could've found kuwadorian going around the island searching for the gold all those years if Rosa found it in a rebellious day...
I always asumed that Kuwadorian wasn't found for the same reason the siblings were reluctant to go to the chapel: Kinzo's authority.
For ex., they didn't make open moves to prove that Kinzo was dead because of that. Eva, the most temperamental and firm in her idea that Kinzo was dead could easly and skillfully walk around Natsuhi and enter the study (she has physical power, if everything failed she could shove aside Natsuhi) instead of using that trick with the recipe, but her fear to Kinzo's fury held her back. She could just look at the door with frustation and leave.
So they didn't went near the chapel nor the forest because they still acknowledged Kinzo's authority. All that 'wouldn't put it past grandfather' bussiness is a result of that.
So actually Rosa finding Kuwadorian wasn't some miracle, it was because she overcame her fear to Kinzo in her state of despair (for whatever teenage problem she had, I don't remember) and broke the taboo of going to the forests. It's actually because she was the youngest and the more likely to break the old rules that she was the one to find Beatrice II.
Eva and Krauss were far too scarred by Kinzo to dissobey him, and Rudolf always looked to me like the guy who'd just pass on those problems.

About reversing the tables on Beato and accomplices: Beatrice has a gun, but Krauss has mad boxing skills and enough hot blood to use them if a situation like that arose, so is possible for him to disarm her... but not to point the barrel her way. He'd try to reach a gentleman's deal XD I shudder if she tried to sway Eva with those tactics... and let's not talk about yakuza princess Kyrie.
There was a point about Yasu having a weak body, so is not too farfetched that someone overpowered her and, depending on the sibling in case, blew her head and went with the original plan. So actually Yasu imagining that pointing a gun to the fierce sons or daughters of Kinzo was going to get those results (absolute obedience of an accomplice) was too naive. Maybe that's what ignited the clusterfuck in RokkenPrime? Yasu was dreaming gameboards too hard to realize exactly who she was fucking around with and things went downside... sounds more plausible that the siblings devotedly going along with her just because she had a gun or the promise of some bomb that could be avoided if all ran to the forest with all their might still they reached the other shore (even if they didn't find kuwadorian, they could go to somwhere as far of the main house as Kuwadorian).
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Old 2012-09-14, 13:09   Link #30579
Renall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
I mean, she might end up killing Krauss' siblings and their cousins... and would you really trust someone who's just saying you she has no qualms to murder everyone and isn't really handing you a way out as of now but might do it in the future?

What if this person changes her mind?

The general impression is they're using Beato's threat to justify themselves into letting the others being killed...
There's no reason to trust Beatrice, ever. The only reason anyone goes along with it in the stories is because the author wants them to. The rationale provided is basically as flimsy as possible without being nonexistent.

Either that or Ryukishi really believes that people would be okay with the murder of their friends and family for a sufficiently large sum of money promised by a person who cannot be trusted in any way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera View Post
Yeah, that Kuwadorian was so well hidden never made too much sense for me. Krauss for example could've found kuwadorian going around the island searching for the gold all those years if Rosa found it in a rebellious day...
Worse, he claims in Legend or somewhere that he's had the island surveyed. Not only would this assure that the surveying crew found the place, airplanes existed in 1986 and the surveyors would almost certainly have used one. There's nothing anywhere in Banquet which suggests it can't be seen from the air, and the large fence would also stick out like a sore thumb.

Basically there's no way Krauss couldn't know. And if Rosa can get there and back, it's possible on foot.

That discounts for a moment the point that one could just go in that general direction even not knowing if one is going to reach Kuwadorian. If you know there's explosives, you know she can't move them, and if you just run off into the woods you might get lost but you could probably walk to safety (somewhere outside the blast radius) faster than she could stop you.

The entire plan revolves around the accomplices behaving according to the plan when they're not being monitored by Beatrice directly. All they have to do is lie until Beatrice is out of sight, and just grab everybody and book it for the forest.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2012-09-14, 13:48   Link #30580
Patchwork Chimera
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Crime Scene
About discovering Kuwadorian, It could be that Eva used her money and influence to shush that. To avoid all those curious and WH traveling ilegally to the island and discovering what they shouldn't. Yes, the gold was blown up but 10 t of heavy metal would scatter, not dissapear. That could account also for the insane profit she made after Rokkenjima's incident, and be a reason for eva to shut completely the island from foreigners claiming that is just void and half blown and there's nothing interesting anymore.
Even if the police investigated, they couldn't take heavy machines to search for the gold, but some stranger particularly obsessed with a mountain of gold could do it. Or, since it was illegal gold to begin with, the authorities could take it as property of Japan.

But about the serial killing, if Our Confessions is a general sketch to create the gameboards, Yasu's plans were naive and that's why everything went boom on her face... hum... probably
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