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Old 2012-09-13, 11:53   Link #221
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
I for the past few day or so have been trying to figure out the validity of Chapter 16.5, even with the implied scene from episode 10 I still have my doubts whether Kawahara sensei intended 16.5 to be canon... Probably is so that is a pleasant surprise.
The SAO manga also indicates they have had sex.

http://i.imgur.com/Qhp6Q.jpg

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2012-09-13 at 12:07.
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Old 2012-09-13, 17:28   Link #222
Gearhead
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Two terrified people who realized how lonely they really are and how much they really have come to rely on one another.

The circumstances are freaking bizarre, but such is life in a light novel.
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Old 2012-09-13, 22:32   Link #223
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Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
I for the past few day or so have been trying to figure out the validity of Chapter 16.5, even with the implied scene from episode 10 I still have my doubts whether Kawahara sensei intended 16.5 to be canon... Probably is so that is a pleasant surprise.
Canondebates *shudder*. I still remember arkhangelsk's bitchfest over the canonity of the Nanoha novel... right, here goes.

The canonity of 16.5 is debatable. Strictly speaking, it's like dummied out content in a game, so anything in it is not officially canon - including Kirito's digression on discussing player psychology and the SAO devs thinking of the rule of first adopters. By a strict interpretation, canon is what is shown in the light novels and onscreen - i.e. the exact mechanics of their first time, which is what 16.5 contained, weren't shown in either medium.

That said, the anime shows quite clearly that there's a naked Asuna in her bed using a Modesty Bedsheet. This was not part of 16.5, but in 16 proper.

Baka-Tsuki took down 16.5 because it wasn't part of the paper release of Vol.1. It's essentially a doujin written by the author, and is therefore not part of Vol.1 proper.

It as just as canon as all those Ichika/Char and Ichika/Char/laura doujins that the Infinite Stratos author put out - which is to say, not at all.

tl;dr, not officially canon, but it's quite clear they went all the way via fade to black sexy discretion shot. Whether 16.5 is canon or not, Kirito and Asuna did have VR sex.
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Old 2012-09-14, 02:02   Link #224
Flere821
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
tl;dr, not officially canon, but it's quite clear they went all the way via fade to black sexy discretion shot. Whether 16.5 is canon or not, Kirito and Asuna did have VR sex.
Pretty much this. I don't think underwear like bras can be taken off normally ingame, it's part of your default character. Asuna doesn't have that on in the scene, so I think she turned ethics mode off and took her underwear off.

Spoiler for Then again:
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Old 2012-09-14, 02:10   Link #225
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
tl;dr, not officially canon, but it's quite clear they went all the way via fade to black sexy discretion shot. Whether 16.5 is canon or not, Kirito and Asuna did have VR sex.
Indeed. People get so caught up on 16.5, that the discussion forgets there is a chapter 16 that does a quite serviceable but discrete job of making it clear Kirito and Asuna had VR-sex.
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Old 2012-09-14, 05:22   Link #226
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
Pretty much this. I don't think underwear like bras can be taken off normally ingame, it's part of your default character. Asuna doesn't have that on in the scene, so I think she turned ethics mode off and took her underwear off.

Spoiler for Then again:
I think they can be removed, because Asuna takes a bath in Aria in the Starless Night.

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2012-09-14 at 07:24.
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Old 2012-09-14, 07:00   Link #227
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
I think they can be removed, because Asuna takes a bath in Aria in the Starless Night.
If you read it again, it's implied that that option only appeared after she went into the bathroom
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Old 2012-09-14, 07:24   Link #228
chaos_alfa
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If you read it again, it's implied that that option only appeared after she went into the bathroom
...maybe I should.
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Old 2012-09-14, 07:28   Link #229
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Originally Posted by M.A.D View Post
If you read it again, it's implied that that option only appeared after she went into the bathroom
You should read it again, it doesn't have anything to do with the bathroom.
The button is simply layered (or however this is called)
1. Remove all armor and weapons -> what remains is casual clothing
2. Remove all clothes -> leaving only underwear
3. Remove all underwear -> naked
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Old 2012-09-14, 11:14   Link #230
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Well this is a question directed to the people who have watched the anime and read novels 1 2 3 so far
I just finished reading Novel 1, should i continue with novel 2, or just skip to novel 3? Novel 2 seems to be 100%ly covered by the anime, just from taking a glance at the chapter names.
replace all novels with volumes and you get the drift.
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Old 2012-09-14, 11:33   Link #231
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You get a certain nuance that's missing from the anime. Novel 2 goes into a fair bit of exploration on the world of Aincrad and game mechanics. That said, in terms of perspective, Black Swordsman and Warmth of the Heart are written from the perspectives of Silica and Lizbeth respectively, so you don't get the inner monologue/narration from Kirito.

Skip Red Nosed Reindeer. I totally sympathise with Klein.
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Old 2012-09-14, 11:57   Link #232
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thank you for the help sir, i'll indulge myself in volume 2 aswell then.
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Old 2012-09-14, 13:06   Link #233
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Volume 2 also contains "Morning Dew Girl", which you need to read before volume 3 or you'll be very confused.
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:33   Link #234
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Thanks for the suggestions! I'll be marathoning this LN since it got me hooked (first time a LN got me hooked D
Though LNs take me a lot longer to read than manga -_- can't marathon 10 volumes in a day and a half
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:55   Link #235
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by LeaD36 View Post
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll be marathoning this LN since it got me hooked (first time a LN got me hooked D
Though LNs take me a lot longer to read than manga -_- can't marathon 10 volumes in a day and a half
Morning Dew Girl will also be covered in the upcoming two episodes of the anime.
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Old 2012-09-14, 22:22   Link #236
Znail
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Originally Posted by LeaD36 View Post
Well this is a question directed to the people who have watched the anime and read novels 1 2 3 so far
I just finished reading Novel 1, should i continue with novel 2, or just skip to novel 3? Novel 2 seems to be 100%ly covered by the anime, just from taking a glance at the chapter names.
replace all novels with volumes and you get the drift.
Quite a lot of the side stories was skipped in the anime, both from the ones shown and of course from the stories left out totally. So I wouldn't consider them 100% covered, more like 33% covered.
There is an amazing amount of more detail in the novel as it is written with the thought that everything should be considered and explained, while the anime explaines almost nothing.
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Old 2012-09-15, 08:18   Link #237
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Well, the anime introduced the characters on a different note, and certain bits of the sidestories should be covered at the end of vol 1 rather than at the points shown in the anime (particularly warmth of the heart part 4). Still i think the anime staff did a decent job, and i'm looking forward to the heartwarming episodes with Yui-chan.
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Old 2012-09-15, 17:39   Link #238
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Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
The circumstances are freaking bizarre, but such is life in a light novel.
Aren't circumstance supposed to be "freaking bizarre" in fantasy/sci-fi themed stories? There's no need to diss the light novel medium just because you think that's how light novels are. Unless, of course, you're fluent in Japanese, have read many a light novel, and are an expert on this topic.

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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
By a strict interpretation, canon is what is shown in the light novels and onscreen - i.e. the exact mechanics of their first time, which is what 16.5 contained, weren't shown in either medium.
You're forgetting about the web novel (which was what SAO started out as). And that chapter was part of the web novel, wasn't it?

Quote:
That said, the anime shows quite clearly that there's a naked Asuna in her bed using a Modesty Bedsheet. This was not part of 16.5, but in 16 proper.
Yep, that's right.

Quote:
Baka-Tsuki took down 16.5 because it wasn't part of the paper release of Vol.1. It's essentially a doujin written by the author, and is therefore not part of Vol.1 proper.
Yes, that, and some fans kept pestering/thanking/whatever translators for/about it. It was also used to introduce people to the series in a few certain places, causing the series to become known for of this chapter.

I don't know what the exact rating is for the SAO L/Ns is, but I imagine it isn't R-18 (or whatever the equivilant to that in Japan is), so 16.5 had to get cut.

Quote:
It as just as canon as all those Ichika/Char and Ichika/Char/laura doujins that the Infinite Stratos author put out - which is to say, not at all.
No way. I'll admit that I don't know anything about Infinite Stratos other than it being a harem and having some mech elements, but how many doujins did the author put out, exactly? And wouldn't some of them contradict the others (Ichika x Char vs. Ichika x Char x Laura)? Then, that'd mean that they can't be canon. Whereas in SAO's case, only one "doujin" was put out, and it makes sense for it be canonically true, as it bridges that one gap.

Quote:
tl;dr, not officially canon, but it's quite clear they went all the way via fade to black sexy discretion shot. Whether 16.5 is canon or not, Kirito and Asuna did have VR sex.
Haha, I can agree with this. For some people, that wasn't enough, though. They seem to believe that they simply slept together (uh huh, because we'd all do the same), and they also believe that 16.5 isn't canon. One of the main reasons I believe 16.5 is canon is because of those people.

There's no way of proving or disproving whether it's canon or not, so I it's up to the viewer to decide whether or not it's canon.
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Old 2012-09-15, 21:00   Link #239
Wild Goose
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All valid points above, Aphrah, and I actually agreee with most of what you're saying.

Regards canon, there are two forms of interpretation: one is following Star Wars Expanded Universe, and the other is the Sunrise method. SW EU considers all published works relating to Star Wars to have varying degrees of canon; the movies are Gold level, novels are silver-level (meaning pretty much canon, but things can be retconned later). This sorta works because there's a canon/continuity team that tries to check details in whatever novels that are published.

Sunrise follows a different interpretation, which is whatever is actually animated is canon, and novels are "official" but not canon; for instance, the Mobile Suit Gundam novel actually ends with Amuro dead, as opposed to the series where he survives (to die 13 years later . UC. Born to die.) - so following this interpretation, the only things that are canon are the anime episodes.

I've chosen to interpret following the SW EU method, where whatever is published is canon - that said, has SAO remained web novel only, and we were discussing the web novel, I agree 16.5 woulda been canon. Once it moved from a web novel to published LN, however, 16.5 no longer became canon.

To fall back on my legal training, the light novels are binding precedent, which is true and correct and must be followed. 16.5 is persuasive, meaning that it's very convincing if you use it to support your argument, but doesn't have the full weight the rest of the LN has.

tl;dr: Strict interpretation, 16.5 is not canon, however it is persuasive and I personally believe it actually did happen, given who we're talking about And that's the trouble with SAO - this is a series that rewards observation, which is something most anime viewers these days are incapable of doing.

...man, I feel so old.

Edit: They probably have to prioritize future eps, but I'm quite disappointed the anime didn't show Asuna soloing that Army section, and just went for the section leader. Oh, well. Can't have everything.
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2012-09-15 at 23:33.
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Old 2012-09-15, 23:55   Link #240
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Edit: They probably have to prioritize future eps, but I'm quite disappointed the anime didn't show Asuna soloing that Army section, and just went for the section leader. Oh, well. Can't have everything.
Personally I'm disappointed that they skipped the conversation with the tree guy, and the initial meeting at the church.
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