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Old 2012-09-14, 04:45   Link #1241
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linglan View Post
I am not talking about Touma been perfect student, I like his laziness but just fights are bad...
You're focusing too much on the 'final attack' while neglecting the other aspects.

When looked at as a whole, those definitely aren't bad fights.
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Old 2012-09-14, 07:02   Link #1242
tsunade666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linglan View Post
Stiyl, during final blow, we can see that same spell doesn't work but Stiyl still want to cast it... if he goes hand to hand combat and got beat up, I am more satisfy with this end than trying to cast spell.

Alchemist, no complaint here, more about break his mind trick than actually use IB

Touma, won't argue anymore, just bad fight imo

Sherry, again, last blow, you would thought something better might come up but nooooo...


I am not talking about Touma been perfect student, I like his laziness but just fights are bad...
Styl can't fight melee fight. He is a magician -_- who trained his mind to cast spell and his last resort is his spell and he was surprised indeed when he saw a kid dispelling his spell but when his trump card was beaten then he is already beaten. Its called trump card because its your ace and if it can't beat your enemy then what can?

Sheryl got hit once already plus she is a conflicted soul. She wants revenge for her friend and the same time she wants someone to stop her on her madness. She know she is wrong that's why she is conflicted and Touma did understand her. And like Styl she is a magician to the core.


Have you read nasuverse or other works pertaining a magician? or just play games or rpg games with a mage or magician. What do they have in common in the typical wizard type of character? they hit hard but has weak defense. They are fragile because they focus more on their magic. Be it in defensive magic, offensive magic or support magic. Magician tends to have weak bodies.

The exception on this are saints or magus killers or magician trained in the art of fighting with weapons and other means and not just their magic. Just like the Amakusa. In rpg they tend to be magic swords man type. The one who are more balance in a way though they still had their own weakness and faults but I'm going far off the topic in explaining the magicians.

Try to analyze it more on the situation and not just watch it Kamachi's work is not your typical shounen fights where the stronger will win or the one wit stronger will power will win.

There are other aspects that effect the fight in Tamni. Such as the psychological aspects of the enemy. Their resolve and moral values. The world in Tamni isn't colored in black and white but with shades of gray in between. Thus there are not always the right or wrong in it.
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Old 2012-09-14, 07:22   Link #1243
judasmartel
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So do we need more Anti-Mage heroes in RPGs and battle stories to better understand the dilemma known as "Freaking Overpowered Anti-Mage"?
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Old 2012-09-14, 08:53   Link #1244
tsunade666
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I don't think Touma is overpowered at all -_- in normal standards sure he is strong. He has some nasty right hook and falcon punch that can knock out someone. But in standards in supernatural realm. He is pretty weak -_-
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Old 2012-09-14, 08:56   Link #1245
Chaos2Frozen
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If you want a broken Anti-magic system, look no further than how the Nanoha franchise is handling it.

Touma isn't the first Anti-magic user, he certainly isn't the strongest Anti-magic user, but for some reason he's the most recognized Anti-Magic whom every future and even some past Anti-Magic characters would be compared to.
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Old 2012-09-14, 09:11   Link #1246
tsunade666
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I'm not much of a fan of nanoha but from what I remember on Nanoha StrikerS

They had a anti magic field that lets you not use magic but in the end Nanoha still manage to use magic and starlight breaker her enemies -_- heck even nuke sheltered structures can't protect you from the white devil.

Touma for who he is had indeed a hax ability but overpowered? nope. I see him normal for who he is. He got brains to accompany his hax ability and also the experience or foresight with countless battle he had to hardened it more. But that is all their is to Touma.
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Old 2012-09-14, 09:15   Link #1247
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Well, he is the main character so that's to be expected. I think he's fine and he can't jus force his way to victory against most foes, he's usually forced to fight by his enemies rules because of his power being reactive moreso than active. So it works well that Touma doesn't plan too far ahead and thinks on his feet.
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Old 2012-09-14, 09:19   Link #1248
judasmartel
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I find it rather funny that people are still ranting on how mages are still trying to use their spells even when they clearly see that it doesn't work on the Anti-Mage.

So, I request for a counter-argument to this: "Why don't mages just use a goddamned gun on the Anti-Mage and be done with it? Don't tell me it's because they're proud or that the Anti-Mage can easily dodge it, or else..."

I've already back-read some of the arguments above, but I don't really quite get it. Why won't THEY, anyway?

EDIT: On the fair side, I would like to see a mage using his spells to indirectly hurt the Anti-Mage. Accelerator could have pulled this off on Touma, so Touma has no choice but to dodge Accel's long range attacks, but Accel basically got screwed over when he found out that Touma can get past his Vector Shield. He's not used to see his Vector Shield getting bypassed like that.
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Old 2012-09-14, 09:42   Link #1249
Chaos2Frozen
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I'll say one thing- When you're in a real fight, it's VERY RARE that you're willing to try something that you're not trained in or comfortable in performing.

Depending on the setting, Anti-Magic might not be something that the special ability users come across often, and hence they're not used to their abilities not working.

In Index's scenario, up until Vento, hardly anybody know or expect the Imagine Breaker so nobody is going to prepare for him.

And even if they did use guns... Look at Hound Dog and Skill Out, none of them could kill him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
I'm not much of a fan of nanoha but from what I remember on Nanoha StrikerS

They had a anti magic field that lets you not use magic but in the end Nanoha still manage to use magic and starlight breaker her enemies -_- heck even nuke sheltered structures can't protect you from the white devil.
StrikerS isn't the problem.

Spoiler for Nanoha Force manga:
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Old 2012-09-14, 10:23   Link #1250
Ilidsor
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I don't get why everybody thinks that a magician would be any good with a gun even if they did try it. Even highly trained police officers only average a 64 percent hit ratio in the daylight. At night or when it's otherwise dark that can drop down to 45 percent. And that's with highly trained officers, imagine a complete amateur with absolutely no training doing it. Likely they would waste all of their bullets on the wall and Touma would just have to one punch them while they're reloading.
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Old 2012-09-14, 10:45   Link #1251
judasmartel
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Nice explanation, thank you. A lot of people who cry, "Why don't they just use a goddamn gun on the anti-mage?" clearly have no idea that most mages aren't trained to handle guns in the first place, and even trained gunners are still a long shot compared to that of gunners in fiction who never miss unless the plot requires it.
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Old 2012-09-14, 11:16   Link #1252
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Is firing a gun really that hard? I played games with gun but just locking on your crosser is enough to get a headshot and I don't have real experience in firing or even touching a gun and nope, I'm no gun otaku or had clear knowledge about it.
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Old 2012-09-14, 12:43   Link #1253
Linglan
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hehe, well, going to move to next anime, going crazy on anime these few weeks

Story is good but fights are bad. I never get that pump up feeling when watching fight in this anime, same goes for Gundam 00 S2. The recent one that give me that feel is when Kirito pull off that 15 slash combos, that's good one
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Old 2012-09-14, 12:51   Link #1254
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How about throwing grenades? Or dropping a truck on 'em. Might as well go all out.
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Old 2012-09-14, 12:52   Link #1255
judasmartel
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It suddenly occurred to me that mages don't usually have modern military equipment on their arsenal... unless they can summon them, that is.
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Old 2012-09-14, 13:55   Link #1256
Kenju of the Right
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Touma isn't retarded to just go in a straight up fight with a person with a gun. He's had two incidents with guns and he's shown to know how to handle it for the most part.
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He believes in his right fist,
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in the scene when his weapon brutally hits the enemy’s body,
that his victory will bring about a wonderful future.
Kamijou Touma’s actions are based on trust.-

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Old 2012-09-14, 14:08   Link #1257
Destined_Fate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
It suddenly occurred to me that mages don't usually have modern military equipment on their arsenal... unless they can summon them, that is.
If you were a mage would you rely on a gun or your own power? It's not like there's a lot of people running around with Touma's abilities.
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Old 2012-09-14, 14:10   Link #1258
tsunade666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
It suddenly occurred to me that mages don't usually have modern military equipment on their arsenal... unless they can summon them, that is.
Magus, Magi, Magician, Wizard or what ever spell caster stupid pride. Just because they can do it by their magic they refuse to use modern tech. That's why they got killed by sniper rifles the irony of a person skilled in magic.

Well if you can replicate a submarine with a few pieces of paper sure why not
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Old 2012-09-14, 14:13   Link #1259
Kenju of the Right
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If I had a choice to learn between learning how to make a golem or learning how to use a gun, I would definitely choose a golem xD
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He believes.
Even though he’s tired and one leg’s in the coffin, he believes.
He believes in his right fist,
in the path that his weapon creates,
in the scene when his weapon brutally hits the enemy’s body,
that his victory will bring about a wonderful future.
Kamijou Touma’s actions are based on trust.-

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Old 2012-09-14, 14:43   Link #1260
tsunade666
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It depends on the type of the gun your creating. If your creating a noble phantasm gun. I would choose gun. Plus I'm no fun of animated objects.

Touma can easily destroy them unlike guns.
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