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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 10
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 114 53.52%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 48 22.54%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 25 11.74%
7 out of 10 : Good... 10 4.69%
6 out of 10 : Average... 7 3.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.47%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 3 1.41%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.47%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 4 1.88%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-14, 13:21   Link #621
thundrakkon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zRichard View Post
And that's the excuse many PKs are using to justify their doings. If they had trustworthy evidence that their lives do end after their HP reaches 0, I'm sure that there wouldn't be that many PKs.
The logical response to that is to ask the PK's to allow themselves to be killed in game to prove that train of thought and see how well they will agree to it.
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Old 2012-09-14, 13:26   Link #622
Awrya
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
The logical response to that is to ask the PK's to allow themselves to be killed in game to prove that train of thought and see how well they will agree to it.
They'd probably respond that simply allowing themselves to be killed is boring, they'd rather kill in an 'entertaining' way, watch Ep.6
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Old 2012-09-14, 13:59   Link #623
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Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
They'd probably respond that simply allowing themselves to be killed is boring, they'd rather kill in an 'entertaining' way, watch Ep.6
Even more likely they'd simply kill the messenger.
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Old 2012-09-14, 14:46   Link #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zRichard View Post
And that's the excuse many PKs are using to justify their doings. If they had trustworthy evidence that their lives do end after their HP reaches 0, I'm sure that there wouldn't be that many PKs.
You really think so?
They'd still murder them, for sure ( and I'm sure they believe that in-game death means death irl ). They're psychopaths who want to kill and get away with it. And in this game, it's the best way. Since once you get out, no one can arrest you, because there is no proof they can show to the police.
Edit: Those who suicided at the beginning, didn't believe in-game death meant death irl, because they were scared, I guess.
They were so scared they wanted to " escape " that " reality " which was SAO right now. Atleast I think so, maybe someone can explain this better than me. Or tell me I'm wrong, because I may be wrong.
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Old 2012-09-14, 16:14   Link #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
The logical response to that is to ask the PK's to allow themselves to be killed in game to prove that train of thought and see how well they will agree to it.
That's why it's just a stupid excuse and not a train of thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
You really think so?
They'd still murder them, for sure ( and I'm sure they believe that in-game death means death irl ). They're psychopaths who want to kill and get away with it. And in this game, it's the best way. Since once you get out, no one can arrest you, because there is no proof they can show to the police.
Edit: Those who suicided at the beginning, didn't believe in-game death meant death irl, because they were scared, I guess.
They were so scared they wanted to " escape " that " reality " which was SAO right now. Atleast I think so, maybe someone can explain this better than me. Or tell me I'm wrong, because I may be wrong.
That was what the PK group in the Scilica episode told Kirito: that there was no evidence that they died, so there was nothing to feel guilty about.

I think suicides had many reasons behind them. Some of them may have intended to simply die, others may have tried it as a way to "log out". Whether that worked for them or not is unknown. Would you try it?

Both SAO anime and LN did a great a good job leaving the viewer as disconnected from reality as the characters. While reading/watching, you really never know if people wake up after they turn into crystals. That the most frightening part of the death game, the lack of information.
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Old 2012-09-14, 16:29   Link #626
miroku2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
The logical response to that is to ask the PK's to allow themselves to be killed in game to prove that train of thought and see how well they will agree to it.
No that's not it, because from what we can tell, once you "die" in the game, you can't log back on. So the simple excuse is, I don't want to stop playing.

And if you try to say something like "well that's wrong because you're preventing these guys from supposedly logging back on, which is unfair"

to which they'll just reply "it's a part of the game, PK'ing was and is a feature of SAO, and so I'm just doing what the game allows me to do."
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Old 2012-09-14, 16:49   Link #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zRichard View Post

That was what the PK group in the Scilica episode told Kirito: that there was no evidence that they died, so there was nothing to feel guilty about.
Funny... if Kirito attacked them and will attempt to kill them.. they may have acted as "please I don't to die" at the end.
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Old 2012-09-14, 17:01   Link #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Funny... if Kirito attacked them and will attempt to kill them.. they may have acted as "please I don't to die" at the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zRichard View Post
That was what the PK group in the Scilica episode told Kirito: that there was no evidence that they died, so there was nothing to feel guilty about.

I think suicides had many reasons behind them. Some of them may have intended to simply die, others may have tried it as a way to "log out". Whether that worked for them or not is unknown. Would you try it?

Both SAO anime and LN did a great a good job leaving the viewer as disconnected from reality as the characters. While reading/watching, you really never know if people wake up after they turn into crystals. That the most frightening part of the death game, the lack of information.
I am pretty sure they were aware of the " Death in-game means Death irl ", that was just a way to act as if " It wasn't their fault ", and they wouldn't blame themselves for it. Atleast that's how I see it.
There's no way any sane person will kill another person in-game without being 100% sure it isn't going to kill them in real life.
They're just cowarding their way out, not blaming themselves for the lives they took away, and trying to get away with it. Cowards.
And yeah. GenjiChan, I'm sure they'd act that way. Once they don't know if their life is endangered or not, they'll just assume they can die, and beg for forgiveness / spare their life. ( Just how she surrendered even though she thought they wouldn't die? Laughing at her; She says there's no evidence people actually die, so why not fight back? hmm? )

And... -> zRichard - No, I wouldn't suicide in-game without knowing if I would die in real life or not. If I had the slightest chance of dying in real life, why would I try to end it up? I might as well live it to the max and try to enjoy it.

Last edited by Karakuri; 2012-09-14 at 17:15.
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Old 2012-09-14, 17:42   Link #629
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point is: We got a hint that they might stay alive.
Notably in the mystery episode.
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Old 2012-09-14, 17:51   Link #630
zRichard
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Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
No, I wouldn't suicide in-game without knowing if I would die in real life or not. If I had the slightest chance of dying in real life, why would I try to end it up? I might as well live it to the max and try to enjoy it.
Of course you wouldn't, that must be the reason why only a few dared to try it out. I'm just guessing why many of the 10k victims committed suicide.

>live it to the max

I don't really know what I would do.

Would you go out there, risk your life and play the game aiming to clear it? Or just sit at Floor 1 waiting to be saved? Would you bore yourself to death or just play the game to death? No wonder why there are only 600 players left fighting at the frontlines.
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Old 2012-09-14, 17:58   Link #631
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
There's no way any sane person will kill another person in-game without being 100% sure it isn't going to kill them in real life.
They're just cowarding their way out, not blaming themselves for the lives they took away, and trying to get away with it. Cowards.
And yeah. GenjiChan, I'm sure they'd act that way. Once they don't know if their life is endangered or not, they'll just assume they can die, and beg for forgiveness / spare their life. ( Just how she surrendered even though she thought they wouldn't die? Laughing at her; She says there's no evidence people actually die, so why not fight back? hmm? )
To be fair though, no one in-game has access to any irrefutable evidence that the people they killed truly died. The only evidence that that suggests so is the thousands of people that Kayaba reported dying, which were the result of outside interference rather than the players actually dying in-game (edit: cmiiw, my memory's rather foggy about this). And even that information could be forged, though I doubt it because otherwise everyone would've been forcibly removed from the game before long.

Everyone in-game has only Kayaba's words to trust. The fact that Kayaba said "you can get out if you clear the 100th floor" gave the drive for most people to actually believe that they will really die if killed (ugh...). Because if he lied about that, then there is also the possibility of him lying about getting out if the 100th floor is cleared. That is unacceptable for them, and thus they took every word Kayaba said as truth.

I'm not sure to which party the burden of proof lie though, whether for the believers to actually proof that they will indeed die if they're killed (damn you Shirou), or if it's the PK-ers job to prove otherwise. We already have irl analogy of people not believing in afterlife, but even then they wouldn't go out of their way and kill themselves to prove that point.
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:38   Link #632
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
To be fair though, no one in-game has access to any irrefutable evidence that the people they killed truly died. The only evidence that that suggests so is the thousands of people that Kayaba reported dying, which were the result of outside interference rather than the players actually dying in-game (edit: cmiiw, my memory's rather foggy about this). And even that information could be forged, though I doubt it because otherwise everyone would've been forcibly removed from the game before long.

Everyone in-game has only Kayaba's words to trust. The fact that Kayaba said "you can get out if you clear the 100th floor" gave the drive for most people to actually believe that they will really die if killed (ugh...). Because if he lied about that, then there is also the possibility of him lying about getting out if the 100th floor is cleared. That is unacceptable for them, and thus they took every word Kayaba said as truth.

I'm not sure to which party the burden of proof lie though, whether for the believers to actually proof that they will indeed die if they're killed (damn you Shirou), or if it's the PK-ers job to prove otherwise. We already have irl analogy of people not believing in afterlife, but even then they wouldn't go out of their way and kill themselves to prove that point.
I know there is no proof. I'm only saying - If she says there is no proof, and she's killing them because she wants their stuff, why not face it agaisn't Kirito? Her choices were: Either rot in jail or try to fight and die ( Maybe she'd stay alive in real life ) - Why didn't she do it? Easy...Because she believed deep inside she could die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zRichard View Post
Of course you wouldn't, that must be the reason why only a few dared to try it out. I'm just guessing why many of the 10k victims committed suicide.

>live it to the max

I don't really know what I would do.

Would you go out there, risk your life and play the game aiming to clear it? Or just sit at Floor 1 waiting to be saved? Would you bore yourself to death or just play the game to death? No wonder why there are only 600 players left fighting at the frontlines.
Well, Asuna said she didn't stay at village 1 because she didn't want to lose to SAO. What I think is, would I really want to wait all that time?
Maybe I'd go insane before I even realised it...I think I'd go out and fight. Maybe I wouldn't go at the Front Line, maybe I would. It would all depend on how good I were doing.
In many MMOs I play, that's how I act. I only go forward to another village / Bosses if I know I can face them, I rarely go into spots in which I know I won't be able to fight.
Even if I was partying, I'd do just like Kirito. Stay at least 10 levels above the floor level. Just party - Get easy exp, and when everyone is sleeping, I can go out and farm.
It isn't that hard, it just takes more time.
First levels are always easy if you've played MMOs, so it would be easy to start. I'd just need to be more careful after each village, that's all it takes. I wouldn't go into spots that look like a trap ( Just like Black Cats' room in which they were trapped - It was kinda obvious...a treasure with no monsters at all? Come on.. )
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:40   Link #633
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Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
Why didn't she do it? Easy...Because she believed deep inside she could die.
Well, that's denial in the process... until they really face death.. they'll refuse to accept it...
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:46   Link #634
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
I know there is no proof. I'm only saying - If she says there is no proof, and she's killing them because she wants their stuff, why not face it agaisn't Kirito? Her choices were: Either rot in jail or try to fight and die ( Maybe she'd stay alive in real life ) - Why didn't she do it? Easy...Because she believed deep inside she could die.
You might be right. It could also as easily like this guy said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192
No that's not it, because from what we can tell, once you "die" in the game, you can't log back on. So the simple excuse is, I don't want to stop playing.

And if you try to say something like "well that's wrong because you're preventing these guys from supposedly logging back on, which is unfair"

to which they'll just reply "it's a part of the game, PK'ing was and is a feature of SAO, and so I'm just doing what the game allows me to do."
Though since there's no way we can be sure of either, it's up to everyone's own interpretation I guess.
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:48   Link #635
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
You might be right. It could also as easily like this guy said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
No that's not it, because from what we can tell, once you "die" in the game, you can't log back on. So the simple excuse is, I don't want to stop playing.

And if you try to say something like "well that's wrong because you're preventing these guys from supposedly logging back on, which is unfair"

to which they'll just reply "it's a part of the game, PK'ing was and is a feature of SAO, and so I'm just doing what the game allows me to do."
Though since there's no way we can be sure of either, it's up to everyone's own interpretation I guess.
It could be like that, yeah. But remember, how could she play if she wouldn't leave jail? Lol...Not making fun or anything, but it doesn't seem right.
But yeah, it's up to everyone's own interpretation. Just seems really odd.
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Old 2012-09-14, 20:16   Link #636
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Well, anyway, I know that we've already discussed most of what can be discussed, but I think we're going pretty far afield of topics related directly to Episode 10. There are some other threads, like the "Real Life" thread or "Game Mechanics" thread that could use some love if we want to keep going down these roads.
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Old 2012-09-15, 03:05   Link #637
teja208
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Now I see...

SAO: Sex Art Online

Should have realized this a week ago.
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Old 2012-09-15, 06:05   Link #638
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Should have realized this a week ago.
Can't have a real 'world' without it, after all.
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Old 2012-09-15, 06:08   Link #639
Kamui04
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Now I see...

SAO: Sex Art Online

Should have realized this a week ago.
That made me think about Ep. 4: Rosalia and her seven dwarves...
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:58   Link #640
Callizle
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Does anyone know the title to the music playing at 19:50, the one with the piano and violin duet. It's really bugging me... One of the best things about this anime,imo, is the music.
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