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Old 2012-09-14, 15:39   Link #10521
Wolfenstein
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I don't know why, but I always thought Kumagawa's motives for sealing away Ajimu were far more noble than he implied at first.
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Old 2012-09-14, 15:45   Link #10522
SoloPanda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
I don't know why, but I always thought Kumagawa's motives for sealing away Ajimu were far more noble than he implied at first.
I agree I think it has alot to do with what everyone else forgot. Mabey he did it to save her, mabey he did it to save everyone else,... or mabey he was just trollin around Jr. High, I hope we find out soon. Mabey he'll even end up doin something crazy awsome (more so than usual) In this arc.
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Old 2012-09-14, 15:52   Link #10523
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
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Really, the only reason I'm reading this anymore is because the events in middle school are so vague and confusing and I have to know what happened. That, and the possibility of Tsurubami getting more screentime. I loved that guy.
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Old 2012-09-14, 16:56   Link #10524
K. Shiruto
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That demon-looking guy is, whithout any doubt, a manifestation of all the Kurokami darkness.

Because just in case you guys didn't notice, he's a Black God. And the Shiranui clan is the light.
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Old 2012-09-14, 17:09   Link #10525
summers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teorenz View Post
Well obviously, if Ajimu has 12,858,051,967,633,864 skills then Iihiko has 12,858,051,967,633,865 of them. Whereas that one extra skill is the ability to retardedly overpower those with inferior number of skills than you.

And one more thing. Open Front-Hooded Sweatshirt Senpai!
I'm still waiting for the color page where all the girls are dressed in Kumagawa's latest fetish.
Shinrai already wore that, during the jet black wedding arc.
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Old 2012-09-14, 17:26   Link #10526
summers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
I think my main complaint is that shit is just way too fast. I can't get aclimatized properly. I mean, at one moment we're exploring Shiranui's character, and then at the other, BAM! Wall to the face.
Plus, I kinda liked Shiranui's "older" characterization better. We used to think she didn't give a fuck and literally cared for only one person in the entire school. But that's just opinion.

Edit: My reading comprehension might be off on my second point, though.
I thought things were going slow. We all felt some big shit was going down, then it happened. We skipped the drawn out, done before, lame, "All my feels were fake, but not really, come save me"
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:12   Link #10527
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Spoiler for spoiler:


As Zenkichi himself states here, Anshin-san's interest is to make things more entertaining, so she won't go all out.

However, I won't be surprised at all if my thoughts turn true and that demonic entity is a manifestation of all the darkness of the Kurokami clan itself.
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:27   Link #10528
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
As Zenkichi himself states here, Anshin-san's interest is to make things more entertaining, so she won't go all out.
That isn't Zenkichi narrating, and, like I've been saying, it doesn't seem as though she's just playing around this time.
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:38   Link #10529
Wolfenstein
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In my opinion, even then, It's just a double-edged sword.

Maybe she can eliminate that guy in a blink. And if she can, why should we be invested in him as a threat if Anshin' can suddenly decide to intervene on a whim?

After all, that's what her feelings for Zenkichi, whatever they are, caused in the Black Wedding.
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:39   Link #10530
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@Kaisos Erranon Really? It seems like he's making a sideward glance towards Ajimu. And I can't really recall any instances where Zenkichi isn't the narrator(unless of course, he's not around). I'm sure there are examples though.
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:40   Link #10531
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
In my opinion, even then, It's just a double-edged sword. Maybe she can eliminate that guy in a blink. And if she can, why should we be invested in him as a threat if Anshin' can suddenly decide to intervene on a whim.
That's why I'm saying that, for the manga to continue in any meaningful way, she has to be removed somehow.
Overpowered god characters make great villains but terrible heroes.
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
I'm sure there are examples though.
The end of the Flask Plan Arc, when everyone but Kikaijima was unconscious, is the last time I remember that kind of narration.
Either way, it knows things Zenkichi wouldn't, so it can't be him.
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Old 2012-09-14, 18:47   Link #10532
Wolfenstein
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I actually think it would've been fine, if only Nishio hadn't removed any and all ambiguity that Ajimu was omnipotent. I mean, didn't she say that she couldn't replicate Zenkichi's Maestro styled nature? Hence no one would get a 200% performance boost from being around her?

She was obviously bullshiting us then, as we know now.
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Old 2012-09-14, 19:31   Link #10533
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
I actually think it would've been fine, if only Nishio hadn't removed any and all ambiguity that Ajimu was omnipotent. I mean, didn't she say that she couldn't replicate Zenkichi's Maestro styled nature? Hence no one would get a 200% performance boost from being around her?

She was obviously bullshiting us then, as we know now.
I think it was Medaka who stated she wouldn't be able to copy that. Although regardless, that claim could have equally as many chances of being bullshit.

In any case, Ajimu was stated to be omnipotent/omniscient, but what about her specifically gives her those abilities? Presumably if it's her status as a Not Equal, then because there are other Not Equals (i.e. Hanten) it should be clear that from a long time ago there's been the possibility of other characters being strong enough to challenge her.

Assume that devil guy is the counterpart to Hanten (blatantly hinted at and foreshadowed). Is it really so ridiculous then to consider he could give Ajimu some trouble? It's not even like Ajimu's saying that she herself would be in any trouble, just that 15 seconds is her limit to protect the other characters present.
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Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Kill la Kill 75/5 :: Sakura Trick 100/5 :: Saki Zenkoku-hen 100/5 :: HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Mushishi OVA 100/5
Spring:
Stardust Crusaders 100/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 20/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 15/5 :: Gochiusa 28/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 20/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Great shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2012-09-14, 20:04   Link #10534
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
In any case, Ajimu was stated to be omnipotent/omniscient, but what about her specifically gives her those abilities? Presumably if it's her status as a Not Equal
Not at all, it's her Skills. Presumably she has some method of acquiring them, in the same way Medaka does. That's why we used to think she was Medaka's future self or something like that.
What a "Not Equal" is remains completely undefined; the term has been used to describe both beings that are "parts" of Ajimu, (the candidates), beings that have Skills granted to them by Ajimu (Aka), and "beings that transcend humanity" (so far only Ajimu and Hanten).
Regardless of whether or not there are other Not Equals as powerful as Ajimu, one has to question why she simply can't, for example, use her Teleportation Skill to warp Iihiko into deep space and her Gravity Control Skill to crush him into a black hole. He might recover from that relatively quickly depending on how powerful he is, but his level of power should have nothing to do with how long Ajimu can stall him for; the Skill she has that we already know about should be more than enough to occupy him for longer than 15 seconds.
Only thing I can think of is if he's immune to all her Skills somehow, but that raises an interesting question:
If Ajimu's entire character drama prior to the ending of her arc was about "trying to find something impossible", and assuming she is omniscient as the narration claims she is, why hasn't she tried to defeat Iihiko before now, assuming she cannot, in fact, beat him?
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Old 2012-09-14, 20:08   Link #10535
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Actually, you're thinking of it backwards:

Spoiler:


Ajimu said Medaka could do it, and that she herself couldn't.

So, yea. Bullshit.

~~

I would say that saying it's simply because she is a Not-Equal is rather premature. Maybe it's just her number of abilities. After all, she has more than billions, Hanten has just one. A very special one, but just one that we know of.

And if that was so, saying she is all-powerful is equally just as bullshit, since if she is not above everyone else, then by definition she is not all-powerful.

So, if we take the narrator's words at face value, the inclusion of this demon guy is, well, just plain illogical and if she can blink that guy out easily, just a double-edged sword.
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Old 2012-09-14, 22:03   Link #10536
gopackgo
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All the characters look like they have got younger why?
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Old 2012-09-14, 22:34   Link #10537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Not at all, it's her Skills. Presumably she has some method of acquiring them, in the same way Medaka does. That's why we used to think she was Medaka's future self or something like that.
What a "Not Equal" is remains completely undefined; the term has been used to describe both beings that are "parts" of Ajimu, (the candidates), beings that have Skills granted to them by Ajimu (Aka), and "beings that transcend humanity" (so far only Ajimu and Hanten).
Regardless of whether or not there are other Not Equals as powerful as Ajimu, one has to question why she simply can't, for example, use her Teleportation Skill to warp Iihiko into deep space and her Gravity Control Skill to crush him into a black hole. He might recover from that relatively quickly depending on how powerful he is, but his level of power should have nothing to do with how long Ajimu can stall him for; the Skill she has that we already know about should be more than enough to occupy him for longer than 15 seconds.
Only thing I can think of is if he's immune to all her Skills somehow, but that raises an interesting question:
If Ajimu's entire character drama prior to the ending of her arc was about "trying to find something impossible", and assuming she is omniscient as the narration claims she is, why hasn't she tried to defeat Iihiko before now, assuming she cannot, in fact, beat him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Actually, you're thinking of it backwards:

Spoiler:


Ajimu said Medaka could do it, and that she herself couldn't.

So, yea. Bullshit.

~~

I would say that saying it's simply because she is a Not-Equal is rather premature. Maybe it's just her number of abilities. After all, she has more than billions, Hanten has just one. A very special one, but just one that we know of.

And if that was so, saying she is all-powerful is equally just as bullshit, since if she is not above everyone else, then by definition she is not all-powerful.

So, if we take the narrator's words at face value, the inclusion of this demon guy is, well, just plain illogical and if she can blink that guy out easily, just a double-edged sword.
Perhaps you are right otherwise Ajimu wouldn't gotten trolled in the Not Equals arc. You think she'd be able to curbstomp this demon guy without much of a challenge but she said could only hold him off for fifteen seconds. I am not sure if that means anything but Ajimu might not be as all powerful as we thought.
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Old 2012-09-15, 00:38   Link #10538
orangejuicetang
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Out of curiosity, do we know if the the narrator is a third person omniscient objective perspective type?

Or would it be closer to maybe somebody like Zen narrating? (Like, not Zen himself narrating. In other words, a human/character in the story itself)
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Old 2012-09-15, 01:58   Link #10539
Sol Falling
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There are times in the story when a third person omniscient perspective pops up. Like for example the time when Kumagawa was gonna die. Although the tone of voice doesn't really rule out the possibility of some actual character narrating, for now I would actually lean towards the "Ajimu is all-powerful and all-knowing" narrator being in the third person.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Not at all, it's her Skills. Presumably she has some method of acquiring them, in the same way Medaka does. That's why we used to think she was Medaka's future self or something like that.
What a "Not Equal" is remains completely undefined; the term has been used to describe both beings that are "parts" of Ajimu, (the candidates), beings that have Skills granted to them by Ajimu (Aka), and "beings that transcend humanity" (so far only Ajimu and Hanten).
Regardless of whether or not there are other Not Equals as powerful as Ajimu, one has to question why she simply can't, for example, use her Teleportation Skill to warp Iihiko into deep space and her Gravity Control Skill to crush him into a black hole. He might recover from that relatively quickly depending on how powerful he is, but his level of power should have nothing to do with how long Ajimu can stall him for; the Skill she has that we already know about should be more than enough to occupy him for longer than 15 seconds.
Only thing I can think of is if he's immune to all her Skills somehow, but that raises an interesting question:
If Ajimu's entire character drama prior to the ending of her arc was about "trying to find something impossible", and assuming she is omniscient as the narration claims she is, why hasn't she tried to defeat Iihiko before now, assuming she cannot, in fact, beat him?
Welp, although I don't completely agree about the concept of Not Equals being undefined, here's the background for Ajimu's accumulation of skills, anyway. Basically, it does seem to be directly connected to her search for impossibilities.
Spoiler:

The way that Ajimu speaks in this quote, it clearly implies that there are certain tasks or certain periods of time where Ajimu believes/experiences that something is impossible for her. It's only sometime afterwards that somehow, seemingly effortlessly, Ajimu discovers that the previously impossible task is now simple and easy for her (no doubt probably because she unexpectedly generated a specific skill for it). The point is that Ajimu's "all-powerful" status doesn't really imply that she's completely undefeatable right now. Rather that, due to her Not Equals nature, it is inevitable that she will eventually overcome any fictional impossibility.

As for Ajimu's omniscience, the manga pretty much already specifically said that Ajimu doesn't use it. It would be like flipping through a manga straight to the answer of a mystery. Which, since Ajimu knows Medaka Box is a manga, of course she would be able to do. But she chooses not to because she wants to actually feel involved in her life and the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Actually, you're thinking of it backwards:

Spoiler:


Ajimu said Medaka could do it, and that she herself couldn't.

So, yea. Bullshit.

~~

I would say that saying it's simply because she is a Not-Equal is rather premature. Maybe it's just her number of abilities. After all, she has more than billions, Hanten has just one. A very special one, but just one that we know of.

And if that was so, saying she is all-powerful is equally just as bullshit, since if she is not above everyone else, then by definition she is not all-powerful.

So, if we take the narrator's words at face value, the inclusion of this demon guy is, well, just plain illogical and if she can blink that guy out easily, just a double-edged sword.
Ajimu's power is not really a question of her abilities themselves. Clearly her abilities are a collection of something she built up, not something static or something she always had from the beginning, so the real question is what is it about Ajimu that makes it capable for her to gain so many abilities. It's not like Ajimu obtained her abilities the same way Medaka did, copying others' after she observed or heard about them being used; rather, all (or nearly all) of Ajimu's abilities seem to be "natural" abilities that she awakened over the course of searching for impossibilities. Actually, precisely because Ajimu only has a finite/specific number of abilities, that implies that it can't be just the number of abilities which makes Ajimu "All-powerful" (otherwise, anybody with hypothetically more abilities than Ajimu would be more powerful than her). It's specifically Ajimu's characteristic of being able to gain that many abilities (and keep gaining them, even now) which suggests Ajimu's limitless potential and true omnipotent status.

Ajimu is All-powerful in that there is nothing which is impossible for her (more specifically, nothing which will stay impossible for her). However, that does not rule out the possibility of Ajimu being momentarily challenged by forces beyond what she had ever even remotely encountered before.

Are we actually even supposed to be scared by Iihiko? I dunno. There isn't even any guarantee right now that he is actually hostile or a threat to Medaka's party. For one thing, after all, supposedly Hanten has at least successfully containing /restraining Iihiko after all for what must've been many years. What I think Iihiko's unstoppable portrayal is really supposed to represent is just to give us an awareness of Medaka Box's universe and cosmology--that yes, there are incredible beings out there who might be equal to the Not Equals; that they might even be their counterparts or opposites, and are the main concern of the Shiranui.
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Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Kill la Kill 75/5 :: Sakura Trick 100/5 :: Saki Zenkoku-hen 100/5 :: HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Mushishi OVA 100/5
Spring:
Stardust Crusaders 100/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 20/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 15/5 :: Gochiusa 28/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 20/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Great shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2012-09-17, 21:43   Link #10540
orangejuicetang
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Random thought/speculation I just had.

Like Hanten had the skill to make skills, what if this new guy had the skill to steal skills? That might actually be super effective against someone like Ajimu
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