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Old 2012-09-15, 09:22   Link #1221
Khu
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Clingy girlfriend Chisato activate!

Now with little brother issues!

I no longer see this as a possible romance anime anymore. There's too much shit going on for it to finish satisfactorily with a romance.

An implied one would work though.
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Old 2012-09-15, 09:30   Link #1222
BladeEntity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
This goes beyond shipping preferences for me - This is just seriously bad writing, full-stop. Like you yourself say it will probably be a stupid as hell solution, and the thought that a key element of the main romance of an eroge adaptation involves a stupid as hell solution... Well, that's not exactly something to be happy about, is it?

The fact is this anime could still do a Oojima/Satsuki end without involving a stupid as hell solution. It now seems unlikely given the heavy focus on Chisato as of late, but it would be easier to swallow, imo.

So simply based on a desire for this show to continue to be well-written, I'd take almost anything over Oojima/Chisato at this point.
My previous post stated what the writers were trying to do to make it more believable IMO. I'm guessing the whole situation needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

This anime also suffers from a serious lack of time being only 1 cour and the fact that they are trying to squeeze so much in, if this were 2 cour or if the chocolate theme had come into play a few episodes earlier, they could have made Chisato/Oojima work. B
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Old 2012-09-15, 10:07   Link #1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
This goes beyond shipping preferences for me - This is just seriously bad writing, full-stop. Like you yourself say it will probably be a stupid as hell solution, and the thought that a key element of the main romance of an eroge adaptation involves a stupid as hell solution... Well, that's not exactly something to be happy about, is it?
Honestly, I think you're becoming a bit too invested in this point of view. I really have no idea if the anime will go for a romantic Chisato ending in this show or not. But, I really don't think her issues are as devastating to her as you think. Basically, she is co-dependent on Yuuki. Both in real life and in fiction, relationships are formed with co-dependent people all the time when the other partner loves them. But, the other partner can't put up with their co-dependent behaviour in that sort of relationship; they have to constantly be like "no, stop that". This is exactly what Yuuki has been doing over and over to Chisato. He's trying to help her grow out of her trauma without just giving up on her because, whether it's romantic or not, he does love her.

A lot of people have various trauma and psychological issues, and not all of them get psychiatric help or follow what we think are the "proper steps" to get resolution. A lot of these people are in relationships, and their partner helps them get over whatever problems they have. Is that difficult? Is that frustrating? Does that take time? Absolutely. But, if you love someone, you'll walk along side them through whatever they're going through, even if you have to establish and reinforce your barriers to help them.

So, if they were to get into a relationship and all of a sudden all of Chisato's issues are swept under the rug like nothing happened? Okay, sure, bad writing. But that isn't the only option we have here in the anime. Let's at least wait to see what happens before we keep beating the straw man.
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Old 2012-09-15, 10:20   Link #1224
Dorsai
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Its not like this anime need to end with big happy ending- trauma disappeared completely and they are in love together, forether etc etc Yuuki not expect that she can be cured immediately.
For now only thing he wants from her is to look sincerely at him and to see him. Like i said there is already Yuuki real image in her heart- its just hidden deeply... Making this one move from her is enough for now. It would be just start for their relationship, there will be a lot good and bad things between them later and Chisato healing process would be long- but we not need to see more. We can use our imagination for this. It would be perfect if anime would end in this way.
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Old 2012-09-15, 11:26   Link #1225
Snuffle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I'm going to say that knowing the game beforehand is actually the WORST way to watch a show adapted from an eroge.

eroge players often have the wrong mindset when it comes to anime adaptations. They do not see character chemistry. They see flags. Most flags = that girl chosen for the ending route Wheee!.
I really would like to know what you're basing this accusation on. You can apply the same logic to manga readers and novel readers, not just game players. You can have your own opinion but don't make it sound like you speak for every one. Sure you used the word 'often' but that was referring to your comment about 'flags' not about whether knowing details from the source is good or not. You really need to be more careful on how you say these things.

I personally find reading the source material (especially if it's a VN) allows me to enjoy the show on a much deeper level. I know things that an anime adaption simply does not have enough time to transition into the show. In this case, Isara is treated like a back round character instead of the larger role she has in the game. I doubt the anime will get into her story so I'm glad that I already know it from playing the game, otherwise, it's possible (depending from show to show) I would've become frustrated with how the anime is treating my favorite character. However, BECAUSE I know the source material, I can overlook the decision to make her into a side character and enjoy the anime for what the directors decided focus on.
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Old 2012-09-15, 12:16   Link #1226
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How are sales for Chocolate going? Are they tanking as badly as Kokoro Connect, or is it closer to Tari Tari's runaway success?
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Old 2012-09-15, 12:23   Link #1227
Guardian Enzo
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Worse than Kokoro, I'm afraid. Unless the stalker points are wildly inaccurate it certainly won't break 2K.
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Old 2012-09-15, 12:36   Link #1228
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This is pretty common for eroge adaptations, though; they really exist more to get people to buy the game and related merchandise (since a one-cour anime is admittedly limited in what it can do at best of times due to time constraints). The PSP game release is coming at the end of this month, and sprite/fairy's next game is being released in November, so I think that's more what they're banking on.

(I almost wonder if the anime may sell more copies in North America than it does in Japan, partly because the game isn't really an option.)
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Old 2012-09-15, 12:50   Link #1229
novalysis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is pretty common for eroge adaptations, though; they really exist more to get people to buy the game and related merchandise (since a one-cour anime is admittedly limited in what it can do at best of times due to time constraints). The PSP game release is coming at the end of this month, and sprite/fairy's next game is being released in November, so I think that's more what they're banking on.

(I almost wonder if the anime may sell more copies in North America than it does in Japan, partly because the game isn't really an option.)
If the anime is released in English Subs, that is. I get the feeling though, that Kokoro Connect might be better received outside Japan too, but that's another matter altogether.

The thing is,there's alot of plot elements that could easily build up into a sequel of what would happen if Oojima captures the presidency. I cannot see the fundamental issues behind the Oosawa incident being solved just by Oojima's election. Indeed, I'm getting a huge vibe from this anime that suggests that winning the election is JUST the beginning of Oojima's challenges.
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Old 2012-09-15, 12:54   Link #1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
If the anime is released in English Subs, that is.
Well, the show is licensed. We'll see if they decide to release discs, but I have a feeling that they will. I doubt the licensing fee for this show was such that it would make it cost-prohibitive to distribute even if it won't necessarily be a top-seller. Of course, time will tell...
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Old 2012-09-15, 12:54   Link #1231
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
The thing is,there's alot of plot elements that could easily build up into a sequel of what would happen if Oojima captures the presidency. I cannot see the fundamental issues behind the Oosawa incident being solved just by Oojima's election. Indeed, I'm getting a huge vibe from this anime that suggests that winning the election is JUST the beginning of Oojima's challenges.
The anime viewers don't know what this incident is yet though
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Old 2012-09-15, 13:16   Link #1232
RegalStar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playmaker2k View Post
Sometimes the truth can't be seen when your blind from shipper goggles. If you put yourself in his shoes, you'd find a way to jettison from that situation by any means necessary. In this case, move out of town, take legal action, and/or lock your doors especially your windows.

Chisato is a whack job and needs to be put in an asylum!

Not trolling, I'm just seeing Yuuki's situation as an unhealthy relationship that should not grow after that event. If there's any credibility in anime anymore, this abomination should not come to pass. That is all.
That's why I say people confuse characters they don't like with characters they don't ship with. Nobody in show cares what you think of the characters.

And you seriously need to fix your definition of "whack job", because Chisato sure as hell isn't one.
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Old 2012-09-15, 13:35   Link #1233
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is pretty common for eroge adaptations, though; they really exist more to get people to buy the game and related merchandise (since a one-cour anime is admittedly limited in what it can do at best of times due to time constraints). The PSP game release is coming at the end of this month, and sprite/fairy's next game is being released in November, so I think that's more what they're banking on.

(I almost wonder if the anime may sell more copies in North America than it does in Japan, partly because the game isn't really an option.)
Yes, eroge adaptations rarely sell well, and it doesn't matter so much as long as they do their job advertising the source effectively. And I have to assume as good as KoiChoco is, it's fulfilled that purpose.
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Old 2012-09-15, 14:04   Link #1234
Tenchi Ryu
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Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
This anime also suffers from a serious lack of time being only 1 cour and the fact that they are trying to squeeze so much in, if this were 2 cour or if the chocolate theme had come into play a few episodes earlier, they could have made Chisato/Oojima work. B
Pretty much the reason why I feel the way I do. Now if we had 2 episodes that literally just focused on Chisato, then we could see better development. Problem is, we have a huge school scandal and possible attempted murder case to solve, and quite frankly, this problem is MUCH more important to solve than Yuuki's love life, so in reality, that probably leaves the relationship not even 2 episodes to develop, but 1/2 to just one episode, making the odds even worst.
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Old 2012-09-15, 15:06   Link #1235
Snuffle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu View Post
Problem is, we have a huge school scandal and possible attempted murder case to solve
And the election. But it's quite possible there will be a rush job on how that ends. I don't know how others feel about this but I imo, dealing with Chisato's problem is much more important than portraying the conclusion of the election.
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Old 2012-09-15, 15:18   Link #1236
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is pretty common for eroge adaptations, though; they really exist more to get people to buy the game and related merchandise (since a one-cour anime is admittedly limited in what it can do at best of times due to time constraints). The PSP game release is coming at the end of this month, and sprite/fairy's next game is being released in November, so I think that's more what they're banking on.

(I almost wonder if the anime may sell more copies in North America than it does in Japan, partly because the game isn't really an option.)
Eh... I haven't really seen a (non-H) eroge adaptation as cluttered as this before. Even when DEEN tried to put bits of every route into the Fate/Stay Night anime, They still stayed mostly on the route they chose (Fate) and ended it properly.

Here we have Chisato's trauma, then all of a sudden it sidetracks into Michiru's story and being a spy without even solving Chisato's story like it did with Satsuki. I have no idea how this is going to turn out, and I can't say that I mean it in a good way.
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Old 2012-09-15, 15:20   Link #1237
thundrakkon
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Which reminds me, there is this election going on. I understand that Chisato is having extreme personal issues, but she is not really thinking for Yuuki in this case. Instead of supporting him like he has been her, she is distracting him from what he needs to do.

Although there needs to be sympathy for what Chisato is going through, the other perspective is "what about Yuuki?" Things are very unfair for him to deal with all this right now, and the "first lady" is not doing her duty to help. Yuuki has been supportive and helpful for all these years, and when this important event is happening in his life, he is not receiving the same support in return. Instead, there is an additional problem that he needs to handle.

Emotionally, we really don't know at this point what his real emotions are. Does he truly love Chisato romantically, or does he view her as a very dear sister-like friend? Is Satsuki someone that he enjoys being around and wants to develop a romantic relationship with? Or is she more of a crush and nothing more?

For Yuuki, he has the Chocolate issues that need to be resolved before he can move on to romance with anyone. He can't abandon Chisato and go out with someone else before her issue is resolved, or else he will feel guilty again. At the same time, he can't go out with Chisato as long as she still obsesses over him in place of her brother. Yuuki is really in a bind right now.
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Old 2012-09-15, 15:38   Link #1238
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Eh... I haven't really seen a (non-H) eroge adaptation as cluttered as this before. Even when DEEN tried to put bits of every route into the Fate/Stay Night anime, They still stayed mostly on the route they chose (Fate) and ended it properly.

Here we have Chisato's trauma, then all of a sudden it sidetracks into Michiru's story and being a spy without even solving Chisato's story like it did with Satsuki. I have no idea how this is going to turn out, and I can't say that I mean it in a good way.
The problem with the koichoco eroge was that almost every route aside from Chisato and Isara felt somewhat incomplete, because the other 3 routes had parts in it that complemented the other stories.
That's why it could work as an anime. But like i have mentioned earlier, i don't like the execution of it so far.

edit: i meant the structure of the elections, not the actual character developments in each route
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Old 2012-09-15, 17:09   Link #1239
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegalStar View Post
That's why I say people confuse characters they don't like with characters they don't ship with. Nobody in show cares what you think of the characters.

And you seriously need to fix your definition of "whack job", because Chisato sure as hell isn't one.
Nope.

Is it so wrong to think that the idea of an unhealthy dependency on someone, actually replacing their existence with their brother, would not be a good base for a romantic relationship?

My preference in this series is Satsuki, but if the anime had chosen to go for Isara or someone else I could have bought it. A decade old trauma where you can't even see a person for who they are themselves is going to be solved in the remaining 2 episodes or so? I just don't see it as feasible.

It's not that they would NEVER be able to be together realistically, but not within such a short amount of time considering how deep the history goes here. It would take months, maybe even a year or two before I could see their relation as feasibly working out.
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Old 2012-09-15, 20:47   Link #1240
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Honestly, I think you're becoming a bit too invested in this point of view. I really have no idea if the anime will go for a romantic Chisato ending in this show or not. But, I really don't think her issues are as devastating to her as you think.
Honestly, I disagree. How many people would react to a close friend coming out of a car accident seemingly unscathed the way that Chisato did? Chisato's reaction to that is not even remotely normal, imo.

But I've said my piece on Chisato-Oojima. If this was a two cour anime, I'd be much more sympathetic to your view, but given how there's only 3 or so episodes left, and given that there's an awful lot of non-romance material that these episodes have to cover... Well, maybe the anime will put on a true tour de force of high-caliber writing and somehow make it all work, but I'm admittedly skeptical there.


Putting aside the romance for a second, I really hope that the election plot is resolved well at least. I still have high hopes for that even if my hopes for the romance side of things has lessened as of late.
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