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View Poll Results: Who’s Under the Mask?
Madara 104 32.91%
Madara’s Son 14 4.43%
Madara’s Clone 30 9.49%
Madara’s Ghost/Soul/Poltergeist given shape... 33 10.44%
Obito 59 18.67%
Obito’s Body, but not really Obito... 55 17.41%
Someone else’s body (not Obito’s)... 21 6.65%
Zetsu’s Love Child... 23 7.28%
Tobirama/Sarutobi/or anyone with a 'tobi' in their name... 16 5.06%
Bruce Wayne or other… 69 21.84%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-12, 22:32   Link #1301
Teru987
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Its not that big of a jump to think that he would please the fanboys. Come on he brought back Oro cause people wanted to see more of him. sasuke did a major asspull and bam Oro came back.

The enemy had a flee on sight of Minato casue they knew he was fast and the rock ninja was about to flee but he lived up to his name the yellow flash and got behind him before he even knew what happened then was killed.


I doubt that madara trained obito while he was dead. Clearly he was an old man in the last panel.

Why is Danzo existing was ENTIRELY a plot hole? I dont get what you mean he played a big part in the manga.
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Old 2012-09-12, 22:46   Link #1302
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Originally Posted by Teru987 View Post
Its not that big of a jump to think that he would please the fanboys. Come on he brought back Oro cause people wanted to see more of him. sasuke did a major asspull and bam Oro came back.

The enemy had a flee on sight of Minato casue they knew he was fast and the rock ninja was about to flee but he lived up to his name the yellow flash and got behind him before he even knew what happened then was killed.


I doubt that madara trained obito while he was dead. Clearly he was an old man in the last panel.

Why is Danzo existing was ENTIRELY a plot hole? I dont get what you mean he played a big part in the manga.
He was written into the Manga almost entirely to give Sasuke a power up. There was absolutely no mention of him during Part I, despite the fact that he was a pretty significant person to the village when he was introduced in Part II.

The biggest plot hole is- If he had Shisui's Sharingan and wanted to be the Hokage the whole time, why didn't he manipulate the elders after Sarutobi died? Why not be the 5th Hokage? Why wasn't he even MENTIONED during the discussions for Tsunade as Hokage? Why did the elders even CHOOSE Jiraiya before Tsunade, both over Danzo, if the elders supposedly didn't like Jiraiya or Minato for their decisions in the past?

Why wouldn't Danzo try to be the Hokage before that? And if Danzo worked with Orochimaru, why didn't Orochimaru, Jiraiya or Tsunade even MENTION him prior to his sudden appearance in Part II?

Everything about Danzo was a huge plot hole because none of his background made sense. He had plenty of opportunities to step in and be Hokage but all the plot holes pointed out the most simple truth: Kishimoto wrote him in on the fly to give Sasuke a power up.

This is completely different from Tobi=Obito. Kishimoto dropped PLENTY of hints that Tobi was Obito. Half his body had bolts in it, he dismembered an arm from the right side of his body, he had the same Kamui style technique as Kakashi, same hair style, him and Kakashi had a 'moment' when Kakashi tried to use Kamui on him and he said "that technique won't work on me'.
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Old 2012-09-13, 00:22   Link #1303
Teru987
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He might have already use Shisui's sharingan it take 10 years to work again so that would explain it. They choose Jiraiya so that the village would look weak its one of the sannin everyone knew them. Since he turned it down they when with another who happened to be the best medical ninja of the time.

Tobi only said they in the recent chapters and everyone knew that he was going to make it obito from the lame hints in the past chapters. Dismembering his arm didnt really prove anything it was zetsu goo so for all that we knew at that time it could have easily been zetsu.
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Old 2012-09-13, 02:43   Link #1304
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Teru987 View Post
Its not that big of a jump to think that he would please the fanboys. Come on he brought back Oro cause people wanted to see more of him. sasuke did a major asspull and bam Oro came back.
it is a big jump. like Essenar said the hints were there, just look at his name and you will come to realize this. then there are plenty of other hints that are riddled throughout this thread. oro coming back wasn't just a fan pleaser (although it most certainly pleased me) I always expected it. oro is the main villain of the series as far as i am concerned. nobody should have ever thought he was gone for good.

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I doubt that madara trained obito while he was dead. Clearly he was an old man in the last panel.
yet it looks like this is exactly what happened

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Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
He was written into the Manga almost entirely to give Sasuke a power up. There was absolutely no mention of him during Part I, despite the fact that he was a pretty significant person to the village when he was introduced in Part II.
yea, danzo is the worst major character of the entire series. not only everything you mentioned, but he is also responsible for the izanagi debacle...

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He might have already use Shisui's sharingan it take 10 years to work again so that would explain it.
i think it was explained that with senju dna, which danzo had, that technique didnt require such a long wait. there was also a less powerful genjutsu in shisui's eyes that probably would have sufficed against the fire country daimyos. also, just looking at the plot in its entirety, danzo would have probably been a top candidate over the sannin for hokage without any genjutsu needed. he was able to become 6th hokage without any genutsu tricks afterall.

Quote:
They choose Jiraiya so that the village would look weak its one of the sannin everyone knew them. Since he turned it down they when with another who happened to be the best medical ninja of the time.
yes this is what happened. it doesn't disprove that danzo was never a thought in kishi's mind at that point.

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Dismembering his arm didnt really prove anything it was zetsu goo so for all that we knew at that time it could have easily been zetsu.
the zetsu theory never made sense based on tobi's personality and dialogue. neither resemble zetsu's dialogue or personality at all
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Old 2012-09-13, 03:55   Link #1305
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
it is a big jump. like Essenar said the hints were there, just look at his name and you will come to realize this. then there are plenty of other hints that are riddled throughout this thread. oro coming back wasn't just a fan pleaser (although it most certainly pleased me) I always expected it. oro is the main villain of the series as far as i am concerned. nobody should have ever thought he was gone for good.

yet it looks like this is exactly what happened

yea, danzo is the worst major character of the entire series. not only everything you mentioned, but he is also responsible for the izanagi debacle...

i think it was explained that with senju dna, which danzo had, that technique didnt require such a long wait. there was also a less powerful genjutsu in shisui's eyes that probably would have sufficed against the fire country daimyos. also, just looking at the plot in its entirety, danzo would have probably been a top candidate over the sannin for hokage without any genjutsu needed. he was able to become 6th hokage without any genutsu tricks afterall.

yes this is what happened. it doesn't disprove that danzo was never a thought in kishi's mind at that point.

the zetsu theory never made sense based on tobi's personality and dialogue. neither resemble zetsu's dialogue or personality at all
Finally a voice of reason.

I also think Zetsu might be tied to the first hokage, but then we would have a Hashirama summon at this point. (Although at the rate this is going, a Hashirama summoning wouldn't surprise me in the least)

I don't think Tobi has any Madara DNA in him at all. I think Madara became a huge influence to him just like Orochimaru was to Sasuke.

Let's put it this way: Any complex plot for how a good guy turns bad, has to be a "back of the DVD box" story. Wanna know what I mean by that? It has to be complex enough to be interesting, but simple enough that it can be explained in a few sentences. Here's my DVD box for Obito:

He was once the weakest ninja of his classmates, unable to surmount the simplest challenges for a shinobi. Uchiha Obito made the ultimate sacrifice when he saved his best friend from death and gave him his left eye. His dying wish was to live through Hatake Kakashi's eyes and entrust him the love of his life, Rin. Against impossible odds, Obito survived, only to learn of Kakashi's failure to protect Rin. The long forgotten war legend, Madara Uchiha, healed and gave Obito a new goal: Take his legacy and become Madara Uchiha and destroy the ninja world that turned its back on them. No longer Obito, the new "Madara Uchiha" will stop at nothing to destroy the reality he no longer cares for, and only Uzumaki Naruto can stop him!
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Old 2012-09-13, 17:55   Link #1306
Artimus_Prime
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Yeah, but how the hell did Obito/Tobi get older/taller/stronger so fast when Minato looked barely a day older?
i don't know, puberty?? grown men don't change as fast as teenagers…

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I'm thinking: Sasuke and Naruto have to team up for this. This will not end their rivalry, but will end this arch.
yes, this…

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
it is a big jump. like Essenar said the hints were there, just look at his name and you will come to realize this. then there are plenty of other hints that are riddled throughout this thread. oro coming back wasn't just a fan pleaser (although it most certainly pleased me) I always expected it. oro is the main villain of the series as far as i am concerned. nobody should have ever thought he was gone for good.
yep. they were everywhere…even in video games…

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Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
I don't think Tobi has any Madara DNA in him at all. I think Madara became a huge influence to him just like Orochimaru was to Sasuke.
i mostly agree except i kinda wouldn't mind if obito turned out to be a direct descendant of either madara or izuna...
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Old 2012-09-14, 04:20   Link #1307
Shay
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
it is a big jump. like Essenar said the hints were there, just look at his name and you will come to realize this. then there are plenty of other hints that are riddled throughout this thread. oro coming back wasn't just a fan pleaser (although it most certainly pleased me) I always expected it. oro is the main villain of the series as far as i am concerned. nobody should have ever thought he was gone for good.
I've been saying this since day 1. He is teh dark prince of the series and by far the most intersting and worthy villian.
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Old 2012-09-14, 14:15   Link #1308
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Well, Orochimaru is far more interesting than what we got with Tobi. At least him and later a girl dying isn't why Orochimaru is the way he is.
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Old 2012-09-14, 14:39   Link #1309
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Well, Orochimaru is far more interesting than what we got with Tobi. At least him and later a girl dying isn't why Orochimaru is the way he is.
We don't know that yet. From what we've seen in such a small flashback episode, it looks like Obito had quite a complex upbringing.
We know nothing about his family, his lifelong dreams and what happened after he 'died'. We don't even know why he got so upset when Rin died.

If anything, a girl's death is a lot more complex than Orochimaru who merely wanted to become the most powerful shinobi in the world. What was complex about Orochimaru was his methods of immortality and how he took advantage of people to get to that point.
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Old 2012-09-15, 03:29   Link #1310
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Still more complex than wanting to screw the world over because a girl that rejected him had died when he was supposed to be dead. Right now that's all we have to go with, I'm sure the later chapters will just have Madara convincing Obito to hate the Shinobi world and maybe with him being the reason Rin dies.
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Old 2012-09-15, 10:05   Link #1311
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If anything, a girl's death is a lot more complex than Orochimaru who merely wanted to become the most powerful shinobi in the world.
But there is a reason behind Oro wanting to do this. The way Orochimaru actually phrased his goal was "discovering the truth about the world". In the context in which it was said, I interpreted it to mean realizing the meaning of life, and the true essence of everything(jutsu, elements, chemistry, biology, etc.), which is indeed what many scientists strive for.

Keeping in mind Kishimoto's message about socialization in this story, Oro's goal is no doubt related to all the death he experienced in the ninja war, and more importantly his parent's death as per his conversation with Sarutobi in front of his parent's grave when they found the snake skin representing good luck and reincarnation.

From these experiences, Oro has apparently become a very cynical, jaded, and obviously psychotic character who fervently wants to escape what he describes as "the fragility of human existence", which he is all too familiar with. I don't think any of the character's goals in this story are terribly complex; any one of them can probably be reduced to one sentence. However, that doesn't necessarily do them justice(not even Obito's), especially if you're exploring underlying reasons. With that said, I don't see Oro's goal anymore simple than Obito's thus far, and everyone's catalyst for psychosis in this story can be backtracked to ninja society.
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Old 2012-09-15, 10:09   Link #1312
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If anything, a girl's death is a lot more complex than Orochimaru who merely wanted to become the most powerful shinobi in the world. What was complex about Orochimaru was his methods of immortality and how he took advantage of people to get to that point.
To be fair, in the brief flashback shown, Orochimaru's obsession with immortality seemed to stem from his parents untimely death. So, there was some impetus for his actions at least equal to what we currently know about Obito's actions (and both will undoubtedly be expanded upon in future chapters).

edit: ninja'd by Captain Commando.
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Old 2012-09-15, 11:56   Link #1313
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Madara discovered the truth about the world before orochi......
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Old 2012-09-15, 13:18   Link #1314
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Too bad he didn't discover the ability to jump bodies before Orochimaru so he at least has that over Madera.
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Old 2012-09-15, 15:45   Link #1315
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Too bad he didn't discover the ability to jump bodies before Orochimaru so he at least has that over Madera.
He probably never wanted/needed to. Madara has been around since the first Hokage and death hasn't seemed to take out his flame. Plus an Uchiha is probably least likely to feel as though their body is insufficient.
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Old 2012-09-16, 14:57   Link #1316
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Well, he did die at one point and I believe being old and weak is not the way he wanted to go. Especially when a guy like Orochimaru is running around in very young bodies.
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Old 2012-09-16, 15:08   Link #1317
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Well, if Madara were revived through Rinne Tensei, wouldn't he be super old?

My theory is, that's the reason why the timing was so crucial. I'd wager he originally had to be revived on the moment where the moon's eye plan would be complete. The moment when the frailty of his physical body wouldn't matter anymore. Or perhaps, there would be a new body waiting for him to be revived in: The body of the Ten-Tails.
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Old 2012-09-30, 03:57   Link #1318
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After reading the last chapters I find that Tobi being Obito is coherent in the whole story and Naruto universe.
That was not my favorite option, since I did not really foresee him impersonating Madara till the end (I really thought it was Tobi who gave the eyes to Nagato), but this behavior makes sense.
Retrospectively the dialogue between Minato and Tobi is funny. "Hey, dude, it matters who that guy is, he is your student!"
Since Madara did not use Rinne Tensei on someone from the past, I still wonder how he can know so much about the Bijuus, the heretical statue, the techniques to control them. Are the tablets really sufficient?

Who is the final villain? I don't know how Obito will be used from now.
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Old 2012-10-06, 18:27   Link #1319
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After reading the last chapters I find that Tobi being Obito is coherent in the whole story and Naruto universe.
That was not my favorite option, since I did not really foresee him impersonating Madara till the end (I really thought it was Tobi who gave the eyes to Nagato), but this behavior makes sense.
Retrospectively the dialogue between Minato and Tobi is funny. "Hey, dude, it matters who that guy is, he is your student!"
Since Madara did not use Rinne Tensei on someone from the past, I still wonder how he can know so much about the Bijuus, the heretical statue, the techniques to control them. Are the tablets really sufficient?

Who is the final villain? I don't know how Obito will be used from now.
It is coherent, but it kinda took away the point of having Tobi using a mask for years, I mean, It was quite obvious Tobi = Obito, we kinda refused to believe it because It was too obvious... and because of kishis trolling. But I doubt anyone was surprised when we found out who he really is, It was kind of fail.

As for the final villain, I think they've confirmed that It WON'T be Madara I'm pretty sure Tobi will become good so I'd go with Orochi.
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Old 2012-10-06, 20:13   Link #1320
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It is coherent, but it kinda took away the point of having Tobi using a mask for years
no it didn't. obito was impersonating madara
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