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Old 2012-09-15, 21:02   Link #23641
MakubeX2
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 34
Buddhism seems to the most....enlighten and tolerant of modern religions here. Might be because it is old of the oldest religion in the world, preceding Abrahamic religions. As far as I know, there hasn't been a crusade and jihad in the name of Buddha in recorded history.

While Buddhist does protest aganist political issues in modern times, the most extreme demonstration I've seen they have done is self-sacrfice in the the form of self-immolation.

(EXTREMELY DISTRUBING VIDEOS AS FOLLOWS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E37cMtCrKoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbB7yWU0Isk

Does people here think that the Christian and Islamist will advance to such a state in time ?
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Last edited by MakubeX2; 2012-09-15 at 21:19.
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Old 2012-09-15, 21:27   Link #23642
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Man, I'm sick of the really stupid people on earth, I really am.

First, let's start with China. So many people protesting and causing damage to Japanese stores and businesses. China has a corrupt government and a big military. They bully people around in Asia (diplomatically to some; with oppression and force to others). I think Japan has more of a right to claim the islands than China. China is just thinking "me, me, me" because of the possibility of oil being under the islands, and they think they can just bully Japan into giving them up. Japan is standing up to the bully, and so now many people in China are just being destructive (to Japanese businesses) and sometimes violent. I know anti-Japan sentiments are still high in China because of World War II (it is understandable, but I think they should be 'more over it' by this point in time), but it makes me mad that these people (destructive/violent protesters and activists) are so out of line for Japan standing up to a bully government (I understand they don't see it that way). They are so mad and anti-Japan because of the corrupt Japanese government and military which were put to an end in 1945, and Japan has now progressed very, very much since then and has done a total 180 degree turn around, and yet now China is a corrupt power in Asia today instead. It has pretty much been a role reversal, yet so many Chinese people still hate Japan, and this bothers me. Sometimes it really bothers me and makes me upset.
Glad to see I'm not the only one having the same frustration about China's reaction here. At least so far, Japan restrained themselves from any further reaction, but it could turn ugly the other way for Chinese stores and businesses in Japan should those idiots from the mainland continue this crap. About the anti-Japan sentiment, I see it as a major inferiority complex they can't solve on their own especially when Japan owned China in almost any domain for so many centuries. Is there anyone else but China itself to blame for being shit and living in the dark ages for so long without evolving while other countries did not hesitate in putting themselves as the spearhead of true revolutions (peaceful ones BTW) for the real good of people.

To be fully honest with everyone, I never had respect for China, I'm not about to have any respect now and I will never do so as long as this country keeps on taking that path with that typical immaturity. As a certain Jeremy Roenick once said: they can kiss my @$$.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
While it is true that there has been a lot of unjustifiable violence from Christians and Jews in the past, in the modern era things are much better with both religions. It is 2012 now and Islam is pretty much still stuck in the year 1200. Islam should have progressed more in the last several decades to match the progress Christianity and Judaism have made in these modern times. That the religion began around 450 years after Christianity emerged isn't an excuse for it. It really should have progressed more by now in these modern times.
And in the era of internet, satellites and loads of ways for the information to travel quickly, there's no excuse for anyone in the Muslim world to remain ignorant and act as savages just like a number of them currently are. That's why I also believe those idiots don't deserve any apology now after what they did.
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Old 2012-09-15, 21:30   Link #23643
Kokukirin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
First, let's start with China. So many people protesting and causing damage to Japanese stores and businesses. China has a corrupt government and a big military. They bully people around in Asia (diplomatically to some; with oppression and force to others). I think Japan has more of a right to claim the islands than China. China is just thinking "me, me, me" because of the possibility of oil being under the islands, and they think they can just bully Japan into giving them up. Japan is standing up to the bully, and so now many people in China are just being destructive (to Japanese businesses) and sometimes violent. I know anti-Japan sentiments are still high in China because of World War II (it is understandable, but I think they should be 'more over it' by this point in time), but it makes me mad that these people (destructive/violent protesters and activists) are so out of line for Japan standing up to a bully government (I understand they don't see it that way). They are so mad and anti-Japan because of the corrupt Japanese government and military which were put to an end in 1945, and Japan has now progressed very, very much since then and has done a total 180 degree turn around, and yet now China is a corrupt power in Asia today instead. It has pretty much been a role reversal, yet so many Chinese people still hate Japan, and this bothers me. Sometimes it really bothers me and makes me upset.
Well, that is rather unfair.

First you are quite wrong about Japan. The Japanese nationalists certainly played their part in stirring things up with talks of purchasing the islands. Japan never truly walked out of nationalism and glorification of WWII war crimes, unlike, say, Germany. Japanese PMs still occasionally visit the Yasukuni Shrine, despite protests from many Asia Pacific countries. There were talks of Japanese textbooks whitening the WWII crimes some years ago, but I don't know what came to that. While Europeans have no fear of Nazi coming back, and while most of the Japanese are not the right-wing nationalists, the ghost of Japanese Militarism still lingered. I don't think the Chinese are being unreasonably wary.

You also have to remember that China has not been this powerful for long. The Chinese suffered greatly at hands of Japanese and then the Communists under Mao. They were dirt poor until the 1990's, and therefore many of their people are uneducated. Even now, a significant portion of them are still in poverty. You just cannot expect them to behave like nice gentlemen, especially when the matter is about nationalism.

It didn't take much for the English and French to riot. Even the oh-so-peaceful Canadians rioted over losing the Stanley Cup final. It should come to little surprise that there are tens of thousands of Chinese (out of 1.3 billion)
rioting over this.

I also think that the Chinese "bullying" is somewhat exaggerated. China has not threatened military action against anyone for a long time. Its military power is building up, but that is in line with its rapid economic growth. Its bullying, at worst, is by witholding trade. The refusal to export rare earth (which China has a near monopoly of) to Japan some time ago was one example.

That said, I don't think China is blameless in any way. Their government certainly could have done much more to protect the shops and end the riots. They could tell their media to tone down criticism of Japan. The rioters also seem not to understand that by destroying the Japanese shops, they are also destroying livelihood of the employees and the properties of their fellow Chinese citizens.
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Old 2012-09-15, 21:34   Link #23644
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Buddhism seems to the most....enlighten and tolerant of modern religions here. Might be because it is old of the oldest religion in the world, preceding Abrahamic religions. As far as I know, there hasn't been a crusade and jihad in the name of Buddha in recorded history.

While Buddhist does protest aganist political issues in modern times, the most extreme demonstration I've seen they have done is self-sacrfice in the the form of self-immolation.

(EXTREMELY DISTRUBING VIDEOS AS FOLLOWS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E37cMtCrKoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbB7yWU0Isk

Does people here think that the Christian and Islamist will advance to such a state in time ?
There have been historical occurrences of violence in the name of Buddhism:

http://terrorism.about.com/od/politi...-terrorism.htm

You can argue they were "doing it wrong" but I think so are those others that are committing violence. At the end of the day, extremism is bad mmmm-kay?
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Old 2012-09-15, 21:43   Link #23645
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Radical extremism is the same. Saying only religions go through such phases is pretty much being blind in my opinion.
Lets look at the actual histories of all the Abrahamic faiths over several thousand years. Initially, adherent peoples are quite aggressive, violent, and expansionist. They don't tolerate difference of opinion. As the religion matures and incorporates more points of view, this tendency reduces as the centuries roll by. They are observed to have calmed down (except for the outlier extremists). Its a trend line of history and a trend of human behavior right down to the individual.
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Old 2012-09-15, 21:51   Link #23646
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Except that China won't get that in this one. Japan spent over 50 years in training their forces for a first strike from either the Soviets, North Korea or China. Meanwhile, the PLA got severely battered the last time they went into open conflict.
Reading this excellent piece made me feel..... at ease

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...=yes&page=full
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Old 2012-09-15, 21:53   Link #23647
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
-Snip-
And? I said radical extremism, covering almost everything including political and economical ideologies.
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Old 2012-09-15, 21:59   Link #23648
Urzu 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Buddhism seems to the most....enlighten and tolerant of modern religions here. Might be because it is old of the oldest religion in the world, preceding Abrahamic religions. As far as I know, there hasn't been a crusade and jihad in the name of Buddha in recorded

While Buddhist does protest aganist political issues in modern times, the most extreme demonstration I've seen they have done is self-sacrfice in the the form of self-immolation.

(EXTREMELY DISTRUBING VIDEOS AS FOLLOWS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E37cMtCrKoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbB7yWU0Isk

Does people here think that the Christian and Islamist will advance to such a state in time ?
I love Buddhism. It is older than most of the major religions of the world. Judaism came before it, and so did Hinduism (the Buddha grew up in a kingdom dominated by a Hindu population).

Buddhism is the religion that practices what it preaches the best, and what it preaches is very good. I don't think Christianity and Islam, as organized religions, can ever get to the height that Buddhism sits at. Christianity has some very good teachings, but the religion seems to make many create a divide between 'believers' and 'non-believers' and between 'believers' and 'sinners' (the holier than thou thing; hey, all people are sinners!). The same can be said about Islam. Islam has an additional problem. There are verses in the Qu'ran, which Muslims believe to be the Holy word of God, which endorse and condone violence and killing. It is very problematic, as many Muslims today who are violent or even kill 'infidels' or support violence and killing in their hearts feel it is absolutely fine with Allah due to some verses in the Qu'ran.

(I ended up finding these quoted verses and the link given below after writing the above paragraph) Some verses from the Qu'ran endorsing violence (including some commentary on them):

Quote:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." {Commentary} The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.
Quote:
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" {Commentary} This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).
Quote:
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" {Commentary} No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
Some more verses here: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Qu...3-violence.htm

That site says the Qu'ran endorses violence to nonbelievers 109 times. The total amount of times that the Qu'ran endorses violence is even more than that. I used to be kind of fair minded about Islam, but after reading some of the things there...not anymore. I've been trying to be fair minded with this religion, but with all the anger and outrage and violence from that stupid movie, I was starting to really not like it, and now after reading some of those verses, I really don't like it. I will remain fair-minded about many Muslim people. Yes there are many bad Muslim people, but I know there are also many good people who are Muslims.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2012-09-15 at 22:13.
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:03   Link #23649
Sumeragi
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The Old Testament is even more extreme in that sense.
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:11   Link #23650
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
And? I said radical extremism, covering almost everything including political and economical ideologies.
[sarcasm] Whoa whoa! Don't bring economics into this! The allocation of scarce resources never hurt anybody! [/sarcasm]


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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
The Old Testament is even more extreme in that sense.
^ This. Old Testament God was a jerk .. guess what happens when someone accidentally bumped into the "Ark of the Covenant" ??
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:13   Link #23651
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
And? I said radical extremism, covering almost everything including political and economical ideologies.
True... most belief systems be they secular or religious go through some version of adolescence and insecurity before maturing (or entering a more sustainable equilibrium).
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:14   Link #23652
flying ^
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I used to be kind of fair minded about Islam, but after reading some of the things there...not anymore.
tsk tsk tsk

what took you soo long?

the right is and has been RIGHT all along in pointing this out!

I watch EU-ians in dismay and only Geeert Wilders has the cajones to dare speak the inconvenient truth
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:21   Link #23653
Ithekro
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Japanese PMs still occasionally visit the Yasukuni Shrine, despite protests from many Asia Pacific countries.
Considering how fast the Japanese run thought PMs, that doesn't particularly bother me. If we were talking about the Emperor, than I might hold issue over it. That the shrine is for all Japanese military that died in service of the Emperor, even those that are on the A-List for War Crimes fit that description. That the Emperor won't go, is telling enough for me. What the PM of the Month does is his business since they have so many I don't attribute them as "the Face of Japan" like I could with say the President of the United States.

If Western religions worked that way, I'm fairly certain there would be Nazi Party members enshrined in some temple to those that died for Germany (a temple for Hitler as Supreme Leader would likely have been torn down following the war and never rebuilt, and the Kaiser's been gone for a long time now). It would hold some Party members, as well as the average soldiers that fought and died for Germany since maybe as far back as the Franco-Prussian War. While I guess it wouldn't hold those that died later on (men like Adolf Galland for example), it would hold honorable men as well as the vile ones who died in service to Germany.

But in the west, the closest you get to that are national cemeteries where military personel are buried. We don't particularly enshrine people (thou I suppose the Kennedy gravesite could be considered a shrine of sorts) in those places, there are those with money that can have large tombs, or be famous enough for people to visit their graves (Grant's Tomb for example). We handle our enshrining as memorials...the Wall for the Vietnam Memorial. They aren't places of worship, but of rememberance. Museums are used for education and propaganda (depending on if or what kind of spin it has). The largest and prehaps best World War II museum for the Pacifc Theater I've ever seen is in Texas. Why? Because that was where Fleet Admiral Nimitz was from. They have the one captured Japanese midget submarine from Pearl Harbor sticking halfway out the building...you can touch it. They have a hatch from the USS Arizona that was blown off when she exploded that day. The signs on it say more or less "Go ahead and touch this door...if the Japanese bombs couldn't destroy it totally, your fingers aren't going to either". They have a room with a full size B-25 looking like it is on the deck of the USS Hornet before the Doolite Raid, with the engine trying to start. It just one of those jaw dropping kind of places for these sort of things.

I study history. Badly presented history or outright lies can be annoying...but a shrine is a religious thing. It doesn't bother me even if their museum is slanted a lot...those other men deserve to be honored for what they did and lost, even it is was under the orders of those other men on the A-list that are also enshrined there. I see it as the junior officers and enlisted men are with their criminal officers and giving them what-for every night for getting them killed. Justice works itself out in that realm.
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:38   Link #23654
KiraYamatoFan
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Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
Reading this excellent piece made me feel..... at ease

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...=yes&page=full
That article sure was well written and well explained for anyone from experts to newbies. We can say that the golden rule still applies: practice, in this case RIMPAC, makes perfect.
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:45   Link #23655
NoemiChan
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Incest Novels Now Popular in Japan Is this new???
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:56   Link #23656
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
That is hardly counted as incest, just platonic sibling love where the older brother cares for his little sister.
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Old 2012-09-15, 23:03   Link #23657
Vexx
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
People writing articles with ridiculously inflammatory titles aren't new

Never mind that the author got much of it factually wrong including the chronology of events.
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Old 2012-09-15, 23:05   Link #23658
Xagzan
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
^ This. Old Testament God was a jerk .. guess what happens when someone accidentally bumped into the "Ark of the Covenant" ??
Not to get off topic, but it's a little thing I have to interject whenever I see this mentioned: Tanakh's Yahweh = God of Christian Scripture. Jesus himself was seen by his followers as the fulfillment of earlier Jewish prophecy leading back to the time of David. It's only natural they worshipped the same deity as their ancestors and other Jewish contemporaries.
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Old 2012-09-15, 23:14   Link #23659
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
That is hardly counted as incest, just platonic sibling love where the older brother cares for his little sister.
Sume agrees with SaintessHeart Onii-chan!

*Hugs SaintessHeart*

Onii-chan daisuki~
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Old 2012-09-15, 23:17   Link #23660
flying ^
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
compound that with ridiculously long assed titles on paperback

there's one tongue twisting example (besides 'oreimo' as per article) that's conveniently reduced to to..... get ready...

ochinko

this one simply takes the cake
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