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Old 2012-09-15, 21:16   Link #61
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
Mad Science?

Get me a warp core or a Wave Motion Engine so we can start talking massive power generation or faster than light travel.
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:49   Link #62
Sugetsu
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Join Date: Nov 2003
I proposed the ridiculous idea of nullifying inertia because, unless the flight is done in outer space, then we would have to assume that UFOs are real. ETs have been the ones to "confirm" that probability.
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Old 2012-09-16, 01:12   Link #63
Kimidori
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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there are a Pure Energy Systems wiki page about them here

the Latest Developments section have something interesting

Quote:
May 9, 2012

We received the following comment by email today:

"...A 'high up' scientist I am in touch with (worked on classified stuff in particle physics, dealing with phonons, black light etc). He claims to have personally visited and seen some of Keshe's technology in action and basically he is validating the technology. Mind you, he is not very vocal about it. Indeed he made some other extraordinary claims about Keshe, which was quite out of character for this guy. (normally highly skeptical of anything he doesn't see, touch and feel for himself - go figure)"

August 14, 2009

M T Keshe wrote:

Dear Mr Sterling

I have the pleasure to inform you that we have today launched the ticket sale for technology presentation and flight for 2014 and 2016.

I have asked the member of the human space committee of USA setup by president Obama to visit our site, and I hope we can collaborate.

The link is as before: http://www.keshespace.com
don't know if anyone here read it or not but this is the report of a attendance at a conference given at the Keshe Foundation

Quote:
Report following attendance at the lecture in the Keshecenter Ninove Belgium on 15 June 2012.

As I said in another toppic, I apologize for some weird syntax. Since I never learned to write English, I use Google translation tool. I only learned to understand and speak English through Hollywood movies and TV.
First I want to thank Jeff Nading who made me aware of the existence of this technology practically in my backyard without knowing.
To incorporate this technology one must understand the available information such as patents and movies look closely, this is what I did before taking part in the event. This is the revolution. One speaks of the wheel as the greatest invention ever, later, steam engines (industrial revolution), electricity brought a very different age, thirty years ago people said that the nuclear era was busy, now we know the computer age. Well it's high time for a new era ... the era of the fusion plasma. I will not explain here the theory for that I refer to the website of kesche foundation, nobody can do this better than Mr. keshe itself.
His goal is, let the people decide what happened with the technology. In the past, let us take the example of S. Meyer, many governments have covered up, and much more than we realize.
Well, just so, the report.

We were present with 25 registrants from around the world I would say. Korea, America, Canada, Italy, Denmark, Sweden and some Belgians, of course.
At the opening Mr. Keshe had an important announcement. This was the last meeting of this foundation.
She stop to exist as it is now. There are, and still, negotiations with governments worldwide to introducing the technology in their country. The foundation exists as they are now being transferred to the Belgian Government on 6 September this year. She is converted into a limited company to continue the lessons for doctors, professors, scientists in general, international teaching as Mr. keche says. The pressure of government to his familly was too high. "I can not speak about 6 september" he said. No, it is not finisched! This is the start of a new era. Very soon, according to Mr. Keshe september, the following two pattenten be published to the public in PDF format. These forms more clarity to the construction of the device which is now easier and more sophisticated.
Again, this technology to understand, first follow the films on the website which also on top of this toppic.
By absorption of the proteins in the ambient air has been developed in an egg yolk, just yes you read that right, an egg yolk gives a household energy for 500 years. Mr. keshe asks the people to fully understand the technology and further develop itself, the only way peace can develop on earth. It should stop that governments decide how smart we may be or how much we may know their power to be able to continue. Who, just so long ago, when time dared to say that the earth was round landed in prison, this is such a situation. Mr. Keshe has also experienced the same evaring. Under terms of the Canadian government sent back to Belgium.
The technology is based on the combination of the magnetic field and gravity will shortly be publicly available and in full effect will be displayed. The unit will be ready Wednesday, September 20, 2012. There will be publicly displayed to fly without a motor, no emissions, no noise can be flown with an even higher speed of light. It has been seen a few devices built for us UFOs seem to be because they emit light by the plasma, which in ten minutes from Belgium to South America have flown. The moon can be reached in two hours, Mars in one day. Power supply, disease, curing may also be returned to the technology due to protons, electrons back in the right place to be put, and the body back to its original state is inherited. Imagine with the system that NASA is doing: you know how much food and drink you need to travel to mars with three people? We speak not ill during the trip. NASA boasted of their travel to other planets has begun not with current technology. Think that you travel for six months with three people to the Sahara, let alone in this situation and stay away few years. there can not travel enough doctors with them, if they do not die on the road themselfs.
This may no longer be stopped, governments are aware to ensure, to lay down that the technology is real and belongs to the people. Now it's their job to prevent chaos and new Inova tions to develop the current economy, technology and legislation quiet lane to adjust. You understand that in our cities would be impossible that anyone can fly as high as they want. There must be arrangements for that to ensure security. You yourself can well imagine that the auto industry makes it difficult to use the technology. Billions of dollars investment in a time past have become.
Mr. Keshe has been two years a flashlight that stays on and that still works, you can see that there are no batteries in it, it's practically an empty transparent tube. I understand this will also be released so that everyone can build yourself a flashlight to the technology to understand and further develop themselves. He will teach us to make energy, learning to heal this for home use; This concept would be possible for $ 3. The (Belgian) government must cooperate, otherwise it makes no sense to learn it.
One of the anecdotes Mr. Keshe mentioned was that, as with many governments and their companies had done, NASA had also been invited to the technology to propose and demonstrate two of their engineers. The answer was that NASAs budget, has had annual investment of billions of dollars,does not permit for two tickets and a hotel in Belgium to order. nevertheless we also have budget-friendly hotels Undecided. Mr. Keshe suggested this trip from his own pocket to pay for them but could not convince them. NASA refused to cooperate fully. Well, while NASA tried to travel to mars with their old-fashioned hydrogen technology, I can with my plasma fusion technology car in Belgium take a trip with my familly to the moon where I do not need years of training and no special clothing, I can actually in my swimsuit travel. Funny how smart Nasa thinks he is.
As I said the two following patents, which many governments are prohibited, will be published. This is planned for September 16, 2012, so very soon. To say Mr. Keshe itself, these two patents changes the first two. The possibilities and applications of plasma technology are in a rapid and they are daily more improved and simplified.
Personally, I think back to the predictions of Nostradamus mentioned that in our time about a new energy source would be discovered, making deep space travel possible.
I have utmost note of the important elements. In conclusion we can summarize that this does not stop it, that the technology is transferred to the people, governments must adapt if they want to remain as the country of the world, the technology soon will publicly displayed and that the opportunity is to further develop the technology as an ordinary citizen.

The foundation is still looking for volunteers for all possible contributions. This can now as the technology to transmit and to teach others. If you have ideas or important contacts and have similar or other contributions of knowledge or practical matters, this may contact the following email address: webmaster@keshefoundation.com. Visit the website regularly keshefoundation.org to further developments of the situation and signup for the newsletter where the letters and communications of governments also published, as well as the publication of patents. Distribute as many copies of these patents. Help make history ...
As your president said, YES WE CAN!

If you have any questions concerning the lecture, you can email me. If you have questions about the technology, then I recommend to consult the information on the Keshe website and to subscribe to the newsletter. Have some patience until the patents are published.
I am glad with my small contribution to the beginning of this new era through your forum.

Geert Vranckx
here is the two pdf in this attendance post: http://minus.com/mLZsU6P1P
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Old 2012-09-16, 01:16   Link #64
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
May 9, 2012

We received the following comment by email today:

"...A 'high up' scientist I am in touch with (worked on classified stuff in particle physics, dealing with phonons, black light etc). He claims to have personally visited and seen some of Xellos' Mutant Hamster technology in action and basically he is validating the technology. Mind you, he is not very vocal about it. Indeed he made some other extraordinary claims about Xellos, which was quite out of character for this guy. (normally highly skeptical of anything he doesn't see, touch and feel for himself - go figure)"
make just as much sense.
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Old 2012-09-16, 01:33   Link #65
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Frankly, I am just about willing to ignore claims like these.

The fact is he is claiming several innovations of which each one independently would have been worthy of a Nobel prize. The fact that he doesn't focus on one claim at a time tells me he is trying to dazzle the audience, which is the classic magician's trick.

Further, the promotional efforts suggest that he isn't ignorant, but being deliberately misleading. Hence, fraud.

I have seen poor fools who have been brainwashed by the likes of him too many times. People who were convinced that you can create energy from nothing by electrolysing water, or that fossil fuels are self-regenerating faster than we can suck them out of the ground.

I don't care for revolutions. Just give me one invention to show that he means business.
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Old 2012-09-16, 07:09   Link #66
Domonkazu
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^Exactly, how could he claim that he understand everything about black hole, while Hawking even after many years still couldn't figure out. And the lack of math equation in his publication kinda strange, mostly it's only like experiments.
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Old 2012-09-16, 08:01   Link #67
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domonkazu View Post
^Exactly, how could he claim that he understand everything about black hole, while Hawking even after many years still couldn't figure out. And the lack of math equation in his publication kinda strange, mostly it's only like experiments.
My problem isn't his claims, but that he is deliberately making claims towards unskilled people who wouldn't understand him anyway.

By all means, have revolutionary ideas and theories; but don't try to "sell" it to the general public to whom it means nothing at all. He is acting like a snakeoil salesman, and as such I can only see him as selling snakeoil.
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Old 2012-09-16, 09:16   Link #68
Destined_Fate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Don't.

Be a skeptic.

Always, always be a skeptic with claims like these. Ask if they have had peer review, ask for the details of their experiments, ask for how their theory fits into and contradict the present scientific understanding.

And if you don't understand what they're trying to say -- something quite likely with scientific subjects -- do not assume they know what they're talking about, educate yourself.

I'm quoting you but I'm more or less directing this at Sugetsu. And to speak more frankly: Sugetsu, first you admitted you were skeptical of the claims, yet now that people has more or less universally called it bullshit (and it is), you ended up backtracking and are now starting to try to defend it. Don't. Be that skeptic you momentarily were somewhere on that first page. Do it for yourself.
Don't get me wrong, I wont be surprised at all if this is all BS since it sounds way too good to be true.
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Old 2012-09-16, 10:22   Link #69
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Don't get me wrong, I wont be surprised at all if this is all BS since it sounds way too good to be true.
That's really not the point still.

Scientific discoveries doesn't pop up by someone saying "Surprise! All the established laws of physics are wrong and that's why my inventions will work!"

As I said before, if you could even prove any ONE of these claims you would be on the Nobel Prize short list. This is about as logical as receiving a letter from a Nigerian prince.

It's not "too good to be true" because discoveries doesn't work like that. There is nothing "good" about any of it.
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Old 2012-09-16, 10:45   Link #70
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post

I'm quoting you but I'm more or less directing this at Sugetsu. And to speak more frankly: Sugetsu, first you admitted you were skeptical of the claims, yet now that people has more or less universally called it bullshit (and it is), you ended up backtracking and are now starting to try to defend it. Don't. Be that skeptic you momentarily were somewhere on that first page. Do it for yourself.
As the saying goes "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is."

I am not defending his scientific claims, but his courage and willingness to attract as much attention as possible from the public and the scientific community. He has even created a public center for people to go to... for Gods sake... The guy wants attention, not just fat nerds who dwell in their mothers basements. The guy wants the world's attention. But why?

Quote:
The technology is based on the combination of the magnetic field and gravity will shortly be publicly available and in full effect will be displayed. The unit will be ready Wednesday, September 20, 2012. There will be publicly displayed to fly without a motor, no emissions, no noise can be flown with an even higher speed of light. It has been seen a few devices built for us UFOs seem to be because they emit light by the plasma, which in ten minutes from Belgium to South America have flown. The moon can be reached in two hours, Mars in one day.
Oh hey, I was right about my nullifying inertia theory! The guy is using UFO technology!
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Old 2012-09-16, 10:55   Link #71
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
I am not defending his scientific claims, but his courage and willingness to attract as much attention as possible from the public and the scientific community. He has even created a public center for people to go to... for Gods sake... The guy wants attention, not just fat nerds who dwell in their mothers basements. The guy wants the world's attention. But why?
Because he needs attention from as many suckers as he can before the real scientists call him out as a fraud. Hell, "fat nerds" are probably too smart to be tricked by him. He needs the stupid "normal people" who believe everything they are told.

There are already existing communities where real tech advances can be scrutinised. The only reason he created his own public center is to avoid being examined closely by experts. He is a fraud because a real inventor doesn't do this.
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Old 2012-09-16, 10:59   Link #72
Jinto
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
How can gravity effect the traveller, and not the ship? If any object has mass (as the spaceship would have) it is affected by gravity, in proportion to it's mass. Both would accelerate at the same rate.

Also, there aren't any forces that don't interact with mass. Because Force=Mass X Acceleration, it doesn't really work when there's no mass there.
Well, that is why I was hypothetically speaking. I know that our current knowledge of things rules out such a limited/controlled gravitational effect. Hence my introduction of the idea beginning like this:

Quote:
Actually, if you really could influence gravity or the "effects" of mass for that matter, you could - hypotheitcally speaking...
However, if you will let go this "its outright impossible" reflex for a moment, and review what I wrote under the precondition that you could actually control a gravitational force to the point that you can influence its strength and spatial effective range - thats all I ask for.

I know we can be painful nitpickers when it comes to our respective domains of profession, but please be gentle on my part here. I am not a phycisist and I am not always able to accurately explain my thought experiments. You are welcome to correct all these mistakes. I just needed a force that can pull on every atom of the traveller at the same time to compensate the propelling force/mechanical force and the stresses/forces in the traveler stemming from inertia. Controlled gravity in my oppinion seemed like the best way to do it.

Inertia for a human traveler is only a problem because the forces do not apply equally over all his mass/body. Lets say if the human was sitting in a chair, then the force that accelerates the ship would be transfered using a complicated chain-reaction (on atomic level) of impulses. While the humans back is forced to accelerate inertia applies a force in opposit direction. The actual problem is that the human body does not lineary relay these forces in its atomic structure. Instead it scatters, making the body flatten out. If the force vectors on each atom were identical, it would not cause that flattening out. So if instead of a chair, a gravitational field was pulling the human along with the ship, you would have solved the problem of inertia causing a flattening/crushing of the human body.

Last edited by Jinto; 2012-09-16 at 11:16.
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Old 2012-09-16, 12:28   Link #73
Raiga
tl;dr
 
 
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Aight, the wording of "forces stemming from inertia" is still going to bother me but I'll avoid nitpicking on that too much.

Generating an extremely powerful, localized, uniform gravitational field means rewriting most of Einstein and all of quantum mechanics. Such a field does not exist in nature, even near extremely massive objects such as black holes (the force gradient would tear your body apart). An infinitely long (or sufficiently long) massive slab might approximate a powerful uniform field, but it would not be localized (and also does not exist in nature). If I take for granted that such a field is impossible, then that's why.

However, I'll take you up on your hypothetical. If it were possible to create a tunnel of uniform high magnitude gravitational field then you are right, a passenger travelling in it would experience free fall and have no sensation of acceleration at all.

Now what happens when this field tunnel is "turned on"? A discontinuous off/on is going to generate a divergent amount of jerk (the derivative of acceleration) which would be a safety concern for roller coasters and the like (higher derivatives of position are rarely important). Would that be dangerous in this uniform field tunnel? Maybe, maybe not. There's no empirical data for this stuff because we simply can't duplicate it.

There is a lot that would be possible "if", but sometimes the "if" is just too hard to swallow. If Keshe could break a few hundred laws of our current understanding of physics, then yes, he could do all the things he claims in the video, but considering that more or less anything is possible under that "if", it's a bit silly to speculate.
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Old 2012-09-16, 12:37   Link #74
Jinto
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
 
 
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@Raiga,

I wasn't actually making an argument for Keshe. There was a side topic that was about hypersonic speed travel and how this is going to be achieved over "short" distances.
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Old 2012-09-16, 12:52   Link #75
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
First of all, I am aware that this post should belong to the SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY News Thread, but in light of the potential magnitude of this news (Provided that this is not some elaborate internet hoax) I felt the need to create a thread dedicated to this subject.

Through my contacts in the Zeitgeist movement I came across an email from a member who is asking everyone if the following youtube video and the information it contains is real or a hoax:



Basically, a nuclear engineer by the name of M.T. Keshe, born in Iran an educated in London, who know resides in Belgium, claims that he has discovered the technology to remedy the world's energy and food shortages problems, as well as improve transportation, medicine and space travel. Furthermore, these discoveries will be made available throughout the whole world, patent free, on September 21st.

The Keshe Foundation claims that all the governments of the world have already been made aware of the technology and it is now fully committed to spread the word so that big corporations and special interest have a tougher time opposing the change.

I would love it if people could help me dig up information on the foundation. I personally find it hard to believe, but you never know.

This is the link to the foundation's website:

http://www.keshefoundation.org/en/

Here is a communicate directly from Mr Keshe:




These are indeed fantastic claims, but if they were true my first reaction would be fear of the potential terrorist attacks and possible wars erupting all the middle east and on US soil as some deranged individuals would surely seek to repeat the events of 9/11 on a bigger scale.

We will surely find out on September 21st, 7 days from now, whether a new course for humanity has been created or if I have made a big fool of myself.
Thank you Sugetsu.
As a published SF writer I like reading about these new ideas.
Do I think it is workable?
Not by our Type-0 civilization.
I think its a nice concept and it may have merit when (and if) we make it into the Type-1 class as a civilization, but right now I think it is more SF than science.

Thanks again though, I will read through their website and see if I can use any of their hypotheses for my work.
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Old 2012-09-16, 13:11   Link #76
DonQuigleone
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Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
I am not defending his scientific claims, but his courage and willingness to attract as much attention as possible from the public and the scientific community. He has even created a public center for people to go to... for Gods sake... The guy wants attention, not just fat nerds who dwell in their mothers basements. The guy wants the world's attention. But why?
Scam people out of their money in order to reserve plasma power generators, and buy expensive books to learn more?

But don't worry! Your money is well used:
Quote:
The Keshe Foundation has clear rules of conduct
A maximum of 5% of the Foundation’s income will be spend on administration and expenses and the balance (95%) will be divided into five equal parts:

19% for further reseach and development
19% for funding education worldwide
19% for direct support to the needy
19% for world peace and the environment
19% for world religious studies and unification

The Foundation’s bookkeeping and accounts will be available for inspection.
Wow! 20% of my money goes towards world religious studies, and another 20% goes to world peace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Well, that is why I was hypothetically speaking. I know that our current knowledge of things rules out such a limited/controlled gravitational effect. Hence my introduction of the idea beginning like this:
Well, I just find the idea of limited gravitational effect implausible, but if we look at it purely as a hypothetical..

Quote:
I know we can be painful nitpickers when it comes to our respective domains of profession, but please be gentle on my part here. I am not a phycisist and I am not always able to accurately explain my thought experiments. You are welcome to correct all these mistakes. I just needed a force that can pull on every atom of the traveller at the same time to compensate the propelling force/mechanical force and the stresses/forces in the traveler stemming from inertia. Controlled gravity in my oppinion seemed like the best way to do it.

Inertia for a human traveler is only a problem because the forces do not apply equally over all his mass/body. Lets say if the human was sitting in a chair, then the force that accelerates the ship would be transfered using a complicated chain-reaction (on atomic level) of impulses. While the humans back is forced to accelerate inertia applies a force in opposit direction. The actual problem is that the human body does not lineary relay these forces in its atomic structure. Instead it scatters, making the body flatten out. If the force vectors on each atom were identical, it would not cause that flattening out. So if instead of a chair, a gravitational field was pulling the human along with the ship, you would have solved the problem of inertia causing a flattening/crushing of the human body.
You might be able to do something like this. However, I have a feeling that instead of fixing the matter, you're just going to be adding more forces which are simply tearing the person's body apart. For it to work, it couldn't be applied from the outside.
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Old 2012-09-16, 13:51   Link #77
Jaden
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It's just too obvious of a fraud. They claim to have had the co-operation of "hundreds of scientists around the world and several goverments" to help develop the technology, yet all they have to show for it is a soddy video with nails in a coke bottle.

Not only you can buy his books but also book a space flight on a flying saucer in 2014 for 20,000€, and pre-order a magic energy generator for 5,000€.

Yeah...
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Old 2012-09-16, 14:04   Link #78
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
It's just too obvious of a fraud. They claim to have had the co-operation of "hundreds of scientists around the world and several goverments" to help develop the technology, yet all they have to show for it is a soddy video with nails in a coke bottle.

Not only you can buy his books but also book a space flight on a flying saucer in 2014 for 20,000€, and pre-order a magic energy generator for 5,000€.

Yeah...
Guys, I have been working with the cooperation of hundreds of the top scientists in the world along with several government's support, and we've finally been able to create our very own Magic Pony, which you can pre-order with a non-refundable deposit of $1,000,000. Supplies are limited, act fast!
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Old 2012-09-16, 16:57   Link #79
Sugetsu
Kurumada's lost child
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I found me a real doozy digging around the net:

This is an extract from http://www.keshefoundation.org/en/me...e-axes-of-evil

Keshe Foundation sends warning to the US and its associates

Quote:
...Iran is at this moment in possession of the most advanced technologies known to man, and it showed a small part of the power and capabilities of this new technology in December of last year by capturing an American spy plane 27m long at high speed and altitude and under the control of over 8 satellites.

If need be to enforce world peace Iran will show the full might of its spaceship program in an instant to the powers of the world if they cross the borders of Iran...

...What is the solution?

The solution is simple and immediate.

We call upon the triad nations and Iranian government to meet under the banner of world peace in the immediate future, to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of young and beautiful daughters and sons of mainly US origin as they are the real slaves of the master in the war.

We have seen it happen in Iraq and Afghanistan with invasions under the same type of false accusation to loot these nations or use them to supply drugs to other nations as in the past centuries, where again the UK walked away with the loot of oil and national reserves and the US paid the price of the lives of its youth and is still paying it.

From the Keshe Foundation we call upon the leaders of the world to open their eyes to the song of peace from us, or the beautiful White House will only be white by name as its residents will leave the fields of their matters within this structure with no sign of real material life, once Iran has to enforce world peace, without the use of war. From the Keshe Foundation we call upon the leaders of the world to open their eyes to the song of peace from us, or the beautiful White House will only be white by name as its residents will leave the fields of their matters within this structure with no sign of real material life, once Iran has to enforce world peace, without the use of war...
Could his purpose be to pull off a massive bluff on the west so that Iran doesn't go to war with the west?
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Old 2012-09-16, 17:06   Link #80
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Could his purpose be to pull off a massive bluff on the west so that Iran doesn't go to war with the west?
At what point are you going to realise this is a charlatan? He is just trying to get connected to hot news events to get exposure, so that he can STEAL MONEY from new suckers.

Enough with conjecture. He is trying to trick people into buying his garbage products. And you are HELPING him.
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