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Old 2012-09-16, 14:11   Link #1861
Albafica
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Well it's "logic" to compare these 2 adaptations.

I don't say the new version sucks, they did a good job overall, but I still prefer the old one. I speak about York Shin City arc. About this episode, yes I prefer the old version.
The new version has a really good fight, but the atmosphere is different, the tension too.

Basically it's the same fight, but it's different in some way.
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Old 2012-09-16, 14:17   Link #1862
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Am I the only one who finds it depressing that so much of this thread is devoted to fans of either version telling the other how much their version sucks?
Don't generalize please. There are only a few posts on that note. The rest of the discussion is pretty civil and respectful IMO.
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Old 2012-09-16, 14:19   Link #1863
butahill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHINOBI-03 View Post
EPISODE 47

Spoiler for Part 1:



Spoiler for Part 2:

I agree with you 100%. I thought I was 1999 fanboy when the show started but everything u say makes sense. Nippon made this episode really pathetic if u ask me too. Moon crying... wth? :lol And he is not the author of original so changing the main idea of the manga is not what a director should be doing.

MadHouse just did it again.
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Old 2012-09-16, 14:28   Link #1864
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Don't generalize please. There are only a few posts on that note. The rest of the discussion is pretty civil and respectful IMO.
If you believe only a few posts aren't civil and respectful, you're either reading a different thread than I am, or your definition is more liberal than mine.
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Old 2012-09-16, 14:44   Link #1865
SHINOBI-03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albafica View Post
Moments where you says it's pathetic for Nippon, it's absolutly false for me. Well you're a HxH2011' fanboy when I'm a 1999 fanboy, so I disagree with you in a lot of your reviews.
While I'm leaning towards the 2011 version that doesn't mean I always accept what they give to us. There were times I said they did scenes a bad job and praised the 1999 on other times. Plus, I'm a fan of the manga and that's my main canon for the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albafica View Post
You said that you liked the moment where Kurapika said "you will atone though death", but you take 0 shots of this moment in the manga or the previous serie, to compare, which is far epic than this one.
I was talking about the "vocal" performance. I liked how the voice actress said that line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albafica View Post
Yeah it's my opinion, like your post is yours, but says "pathetic" all times in a post is a bit pathetic too....
Please! I said twice, okay? And if pathetic wasn't the right word for a lame-assed punch that was supposed to be super destructive and turning a cold hearted avenger to a cry baby emo, then what is it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I disagree. You didn't like it and that's fair, but it isn't a failure at all. Adaptations are called that way for a reason. It doesn't have to be 100% faithful to the source material.
Sorry, but when a character is the main focus in this part of the story and is presented in a wrong way than what's intended to by the original author and given the wrong basis, then the whole thing is messed up. This episode left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not changing my word.
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Old 2012-09-16, 15:16   Link #1866
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by SHINOBI-03 View Post
Sorry, but when a character is the main focus in this part of the story and is presented in a wrong way than what's intended to by the original author
The director/writer needs not to be concerned by what the author of the source material intended (unless the producers specifically say so). It's their own interpretation and feelings on the original work what matters. That's how directors and writers go about doing adaptations. Some times it happens that their take is similar to the original, but that's not always the case, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kutapika's portrayal in the old anime isn't "wrong", it's just different.
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Old 2012-09-16, 15:30   Link #1867
SHINOBI-03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The director/writer needs not to be concerned by what the author of the source material intended (unless the producers specifically say so). It's their own interpretation and feelings on the original work what matters. That's how directors and writers go about doing adaptations. Some times it happens that their take is similar to the original, but that's not always the case, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kutapika's portrayal in the old anime isn't "wrong", it's just different.
I guess you've never experienced watching an adaptation of your favorite book/manga that is totally not the same as what you've read and therefore you don't appreciate the importance of sticking to the source material.

(I'll never forgive Gonzo. Never)
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Old 2012-09-16, 15:39   Link #1868
kitten320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The director/writer needs not to be concerned by what the author of the source material intended (unless the producers specifically say so). It's their own interpretation and feelings on the original work what matters. That's how directors and writers go about doing adaptations. Some times it happens that their take is similar to the original, but that's not always the case, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kutapika's portrayal in the old anime isn't "wrong", it's just different.
I disagree. If company decided to animate manga truthfully, not like original FMA series, then they should keep characters and emotions the way they are supposed to be, otherwise it is called cheating and not truthful adaption.

Imagine that your fave character is a bad ass in manga but anime turned him into a crying loser, would you like it?

I didn't see the new episode yet so I'm not comparing here. I did like old version and thought that it should be that way. But now I find out that it was supposed to be different! I don't know how I will react to this new episode yet, I might also prefer 99 take but mostly because I saw it first.

But if I were a manga reader, I would most likely dislike 99 version take on the fight for it would not show me what I wanted to see and saw originally.

For such changes exist separate series, OVAs and movies.
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Old 2012-09-16, 16:01   Link #1869
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by SHINOBI-03 View Post
I guess you've never experienced watching an adaptation of your favorite book/manga that is totally not the same as what you've read
Oh I did, and I appreciated the new take. But that's the not the point, just my opinion. Whatever you think about adaptations, it's a fact that, unless ordered otherwise by the producers, directors usually don't try to mimic the original author's take and instead try to imprint their own subjectivity on their work. You wouldn't be much of a director or writer is you didn't go about it that way. Of course, the most purist fans of the source material might no appreciate this, but it can be helped as that's just the way things work for the most part.

EDIT: I realize this is getting pretty off-topic so we should stop here and move on.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-09-16 at 16:15.
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Old 2012-09-16, 16:30   Link #1870
HybridBloodsZak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Oh I did, and I appreciated the new take. But that's the not the point, just my opinion. Whatever you think about adaptations, it's a fact that, unless ordered otherwise by the producers, directors usually don't try to mimic the original author's take and instead try to imprint their own subjectivity on their work. You wouldn't be much of a director or writer is you didn't go about it that way. Of course, the most purist fans of the source material might no appreciate this, but it can be helped as that's just the way things work for the most part.

EDIT: I realize this is getting pretty off-topic so we should stop here and move on.

True but the whole purpose of this adaptation of the manga was to tell Yoshihiro Togashi's story not the directors. When this anime series was being adapted, the fall 2011 series cour preview even says that the "definitive version of manga will adapt the manga more faithfully"(more or less). That's cool that Furuhashi did his on take on the story and I respect him for it* but with this adaptation they gave viewers the expectation that this is the original and definitive story of HxH Togashi wanted in anime form.


*Another example is Peter Jackson and LOTR, I remember all of the book purists wanting to boycott the movies. I like the movies better as a result since Jackson's changes made the story more focused on Frodo
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Old 2012-09-16, 17:16   Link #1871
Guardian Enzo
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Here's one problem I see with the discussion here, and why it gets so testy. Just MHO, of course.

The 1999 version had 12 years of basically standing on its own. It was compared to the manga, but that's to be expected. The title of this thread is "Hunter X Hunter (2011)". I think people who enjoy the 2011 get frustrated when the thread spends so much time talking about the 1999 series (and often, about why the poster thinks the Madhouse version sucks in comparison). This thread is about the 2011, not the 1999 - it's a little frustrating to see so much time spent comparing the two series, rather than talking about the 2011 itself or how it compares against the manga. The 1999 had the chance to be judged on its own merits, and against Togashi's original. The 2011 should get the same chance.
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Old 2012-09-16, 17:33   Link #1872
Dengar
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I haven't even given my own opinion yet haha. Awesome episode which showed that Uvo never even stood a chance. Kurapica is ridiculously overpowered, but only while fighting the Spiders.

Anyway, I think all of Kurapica's abilities are out in the open now?

There's the dowsing chain, the healing chain, the chain jail, and the judgment chain. Oh also the chain he uses to hit people with and catch bullets, I forget the name of that one.'

Emperor Time is his Specialist ability that, for a short time, allows him to use abilities from all schools at maximum efficiency, which is normally impossible.
Note that this doesn't mean that all Specialists are like this. Neon is a Specialist as well, after all.

The Chain Jail is revealed to have some Manipulator properties that force the target into Zetsu.
The Healing Chain carries a Reinforcement ability, so it's far less powerful outside of Emperor Time.
The Judgment Chain may be the most dangerous although I'm not sure of all the conditions of its use. Does the target have to be restrained or is it simply unblockable? I'm not entirely sure. Either way, once the attack hits, a condition can be imposed that will kill the target if the target doesn't adhere to it. So dangerous. I am also unsure whether this ability is partly Manipulation, or simply freaky. Placing conditions onto people is ofen a Manipulator thing at least.
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Old 2012-09-16, 17:41   Link #1873
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I haven't even given my own opinion yet haha. Awesome episode which showed that Uvo never even stood a chance. Kurapica is ridiculously overpowered, but only while fighting the Spiders.
Only the chain jail is restricted to the Spiders, so he'd still be pretty overpowered fighting anyone else.
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Old 2012-09-16, 17:55   Link #1874
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
There's the dowsing chain, the healing chain, the chain jail, and the judgment chain. Oh also the chain he uses to hit people with and catch bullets, I forget the name of that one.'
He uses the dowsing chain to block bullets and hit people. It's his most generic chain.
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Old 2012-09-16, 18:09   Link #1875
Kit Kat
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It's kinda sad that no one knows the definition of an adaptation nowadays if it's broken down to something as simple as "this was copied exactly like the source of material" and ignore the direction of the scene altogether. It's equally as sad when the notion of a director putting his/her input into a scene instead of just copyng straight from the source is bashed by fans because "THAT WASN'T HOW IT WAS IN THE _______". So pretty much going by the logic of SHINOBI-03, HybridBloodsZak, and kitten 320 the Naruto is a good because it sticks 1:1 with the manga while the Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVAs are bad because the director decides to do his own thing rather than copy word for word and panel to panel from the manga. Ther's no such as an adaptation that's 100% as the source of material, hell, not even the 2011 HxH is all that faithful to the manga given the plethora of omits (*cough* Kaito *cough*) and other silly edits it's laughable to see fans get relied up over something as silly as a character's behavior which doesn't deviate anything from the scene being adapted or changes anything about the character itself.
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Old 2012-09-16, 18:20   Link #1876
kitten320
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If I were the author and my anger driven character got changed into self loathing type, I would be displeased. As an author I would want to see MY idea on screen, not someone's else for I have already seen million of those.

As an author I would be interested to see alternatives that other people could come up with but with a promise that I will get my idea on screen too.

With that said, I'm glad to have 1999 version and this one since now we have both original and slight alternative. In all honesty I wouldn't mind a 3rd take which would be totally different like original FMA series. But that's it no more.
Though we are getting movie with alternative setting for my fave arc so I'm already satisfied.

Anyway, we just need to wait until Greed Island arc is done and then comparisons to 1999 version will finally end.
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Old 2012-09-16, 18:20   Link #1877
Guardian Enzo
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The Kenshin OVAs are a completely invalid comparison to H x H, because they're not even interpretations of what was in the manga. They're completely invented scenes with characters who share the same names, and that's really the only connection. Whatever you think of either adaptation of H x H and whatever you think of the RK OVAs, they're different animals altogether.
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Old 2012-09-16, 18:21   Link #1878
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Here's one problem I see with the discussion here, and why it gets so testy. Just MHO, of course.

The 1999 version had 12 years of basically standing on its own. It was compared to the manga, but that's to be expected. The title of this thread is "Hunter X Hunter (2011)". I think people who enjoy the 2011 get frustrated when the thread spends so much time talking about the 1999 series (and often, about why the poster thinks the Madhouse version sucks in comparison). This thread is about the 2011, not the 1999 - it's a little frustrating to see so much time spent comparing the two series, rather than talking about the 2011 itself or how it compares against the manga. The 1999 had the chance to be judged on its own merits, and against Togashi's original. The 2011 should get the same chance.
Well it's like that on other forums too. You get used to it after a few episodes of this happening. We're had this going on for 47 episodes and it's a lot better now.

I think that the comparisons will prob stop after Greed Island as there will be no more old material to compare to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Only the chain jail is restricted to the Spiders, so he'd still be pretty overpowered fighting anyone else.
Oh that's good. It would be a waste of potential fight material to restrict all those chains.
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Old 2012-09-16, 18:34   Link #1879
Kit Kat
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
If I were the author and my anger driven character got changed into self loathing type, I would be displeased. As an author I would want to see MY idea on screen, not someone's else for I have already seen million of those.
That's a pretty terrible analogy. Since neither aspect define his character as a whole nor did it change the impact of those scene. Most authors would be glad that their work is even getting recognized in the first place and from what it is Togashi has never spoken out against the 99' anime and what's odd is that people started picking apart his portrayal recently so this really wasn't a problem until people started comparing it to the remake

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Anyway, we just need to wait until Greed Island arc is done and then comparisons to 1999 version will finally end.
And we can just complain about how mediorce the adaptation is altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
The Kenshin OVAs are a completely invalid comparison to H x H, because they're not even interpretations of what was in the manga. They're completely invented scenes with characters who share the same names, and that's really the only connection. Whatever you think of either adaptation of H x H and whatever you think of the RK OVAs, they're different animals altogether.
The OVA series is based on chapters 165 to 179 of the Rurouni Kenshin manga, I was using the analogy as an example of how people interpret adaptations as they were not comparing both series. The OVAs weren't faithful to that arc and the director made some changes to better suit the direction of it and despite that the OVAs are universally acclaimed by anime watchers and fans of the manga alike because of how well done they are rather how much material was salvage and unchange from the manga.
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Old 2012-09-16, 19:32   Link #1880
chikkychappy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
The 1999 version had 12 years of basically standing on its own. It was compared to the manga, but that's to be expected. The title of this thread is "Hunter X Hunter (2011)". I think people who enjoy the 2011 get frustrated when the thread spends so much time talking about the 1999 series (and often, about why the poster thinks the Madhouse version sucks in comparison). This thread is about the 2011, not the 1999 - it's a little frustrating to see so much time spent comparing the two series, rather than talking about the 2011 itself or how it compares against the manga. The 1999 had the chance to be judged on its own merits, and against Togashi's original. The 2011 should get the same chance.
yes, because this only applies to 1999 fans right? it's not like shinobi is making a weekly comparison that bashes the 1999 series at every turn (and which you, based on your comments, obviously perceive as a "reliable" source. see how i feel this is unfair?)

many people in these thread are actually giving the 2011 series a chance. a lot are saying that this version of the fight is great, is amazing, is really good, etc. it's just that there's usually a footnote saying that they still prefer the 1999 series, which is not really being disrespectful.


anyway don't worry. when greed island comes nippon animation's version would be bashed to highest heavens. myself included, lol. (there's no way madhouse could make it worse than NA, right? RIGHT?) in fact, i find it really telling that the 1999 tv series could stand the test of time whereas GI OVAs are universally-reviled. that basically destroys that silly "nostalgia" claim

Last edited by chikkychappy; 2012-09-16 at 20:05.
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