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Old 2012-09-15, 22:12   Link #1241
BladeEntity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Honestly, I disagree. How many people would react to a close friend coming out of a car accident seemingly unscathed the way that Chisato did? Chisato's reaction to that is not even remotely normal, imo.
I beg to differ, her reaction was due to having to relive the experience of having lost her own brother in a similar way where it was due to an action she did prompting a response of the victim running onto the road, it's pretty normal when you think about how much guilt she would feel in such a situation. The problem is that she has already experienced the feeling of someone close to her in a similar way which means that feeling would be brought out after being suppressed for so long thus she reacts in that way.

I agree with Relentlessflame about how severe her problem really is and how deep rooted it is to make it completely unbelievable for her to be healed without professional help.

I'm quoting myself here.

Quote:
On her behavior this episode I think the way she has been coping with her trauma seems relatively simple to overcome by anime standards where magic dust can work. She suppresses the memories of Daiki's accident, which is what most people do in real life, its easier not to think about it, and having to relive the experience is a terrible thing for her and would have put her in shock leading to the clingy behavior. The chocolate ritual was her way to relieve her guilt, and it also reassures her of Yuuki/Daiki's presence in her life which is why we see the reaction at childhood and again why she uses it in the bathroom scene. Its a form of reassurance. In fact most of the trauma is tied down to the little ritual of chocolate therefore removing it a big step in overcoming that trauma as it serves as a link to her past. So for me for her to even try to eat the chocolate in the scene shows that she really wants to overcome that barrier between them and see him as Yuuki rather than Daiki.
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:19   Link #1242
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Yuuki should take Chisato to a psychiatrist. The girl is mentally disturbed and needs professional help in getting over her trauma.
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:49   Link #1243
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By the way... Its only two episodes remaining right???

Hmm... issues like it'll be rushed ca be solved easily.... through a time skip....

10 years later Chisato recovered with Yuuki still by her side... then proposes to her as her prized!!! That would be good.....
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Old 2012-09-15, 22:57   Link #1244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
By the way... Its only two episodes remaining right???

Hmm... issues like it'll be rushed ca be solved easily.... through a time skip....
It sure seems like there will only be two episodes left, and the last episode will be on the Blu-Rays/DVDs (subject unknown).

If that's the case, though, it's hard to imagine them resolving all the plot threads *and* having time for a time skip that really resolves anything. We'll see...
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Old 2012-09-16, 06:30   Link #1245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
I beg to differ, her reaction was due to having to relive the experience of having lost her own brother in a similar way where it was due to an action she did prompting a response of the victim running onto the road, it's pretty normal when you think about how much guilt she would feel in such a situation.
No, it's not pretty normal. There's nothing normal about clinging to a guy like glue while he goes about his daily work, especially when he appears to have escaped the incident entirely unscathed (seriously, why couldn't the anime have given Oojima at least a couple bruises or bandages or something at least to make Chisato's reaction a bit more sympathetic - It's like this show is doing everything it can to make Chisato look bad ).
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Old 2012-09-16, 06:36   Link #1246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It's like this show is doing everything it can to make Chisato look bad ).
The usually script for a drama..... Funny I often criticized my aunt for watching Filipino drama where the MC (female) is so damn stupid and getting all of the misfortunes in life but still end up to have a happy ending..... at least she said... it's a good ending....

Can't argue with that... If there is an award for be drama.. Chisato would win....
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Old 2012-09-16, 09:07   Link #1247
BladeEntity
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No, it's not pretty normal. There's nothing normal about clinging to a guy like glue while he goes about his daily work, especially when he appears to have escaped the incident entirely unscathed (seriously, why couldn't the anime have given Oojima at least a couple bruises or bandages or something at least to make Chisato's reaction a bit more sympathetic - It's like this show is doing everything it can to make Chisato look bad ).
About her making her look bad it would be better for the PSP game if that were to happen to first time viewers as it would prompt them to get the game to see other routes if they decided that they didn't really like Chisato as a heroine.

I think a certain level of sympathy is required to understand her reaction, to be fair I think its unlikely that many people get to see their own brother get knocked down by a car possibly due to their own actions. So IMO for her to have to relive the experience will probably induce a real shock to her, its like having twice the guilt and twice the pain of loss. So her emotions would be in control rather than her rational thinking which as the anime has shown she is rational and smart.

On another note, her trauma is most deeply rooted within the chocolate aspect of their relationship, if that can be overcome, her resolution can easily happen. I felt that that was was the episode 10 and the previous episodes were trying to show, she is not as emotionally dependent on Yuuki as she is to the chocolate ritual that she creates in order to escape her own guilt. The fact that she tries to use the chocolate during the bathroom scene shows that she thinks that its a way for her to atone for her actions, a form of escapism for her if you will. Therefore contrary to the belief that she is completely crazy and needs professional help, it is not completely impossible for her to overcome her dependency on seeing chocolate get eaten.
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Old 2012-09-16, 13:56   Link #1248
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WTH is this school........They went as far as appointing a student to be a spy to keep the peace in the school????

Look like Education is serious business here.
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Old 2012-09-16, 14:42   Link #1249
Arya
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So, two episode left ... I can't see Chisato problem being resolved in this short span of time. So the only solution I can see is that it has been already solved. Oojima slapped her, she forced herself eating chocolate, few days in hermitage in her room and ... et voilą. She will be back full force supporting Oojima on his will to add his "policy" to help the financial aid students. He will understand that she is ok and we will be back to square one.
With Oojima oversleeping and Chisato waking him up every morning, but with the new consciousness between each other, and far in the background President Shinonome would be organizing her policies aganist bullying with the help of her sister, bla, bla, bla.

Spoiler for my thoughts on the three themes:
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Old 2012-09-16, 16:21   Link #1250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
WTH is this school........They went as far as appointing a student to be a spy to keep the peace in the school????

Look like Education is serious business here.
They have like 7k ppl in there. Big budgets and clubs, though things are really blown out of proportions. Michiru better have some explenations to do next ep, as for Chisato she will most likely sit down with mr. O in his room and chew up some choco with him to make up.
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Old 2012-09-16, 16:22   Link #1251
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Wow, good analysis there.... *shocked
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Old 2012-09-16, 23:06   Link #1252
amoirsp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
So, two episode left ... I can't see Chisato problem being resolved in this short span of time. So the only solution I can see is that it has been already solved. Oojima slapped her, she forced herself eating chocolate, few days in hermitage in her room and ... et voilą. She will be back full force supporting Oojima on his will to add his "policy" to help the financial aid students. He will understand that she is ok and we will be back to square one.
With Oojima oversleeping and Chisato waking him up every morning, but with the new consciousness between each other, and far in the background President Shinonome would be organizing her policies aganist bullying with the help of her sister, bla, bla, bla.

Spoiler for my thoughts on the three themes:
I like the perspective you see this. However,

Spoiler:


Yeah despite all the positive proof for certain characters, I will still vie for that 0% chance of Isara as end girl.

It also has to do with two simple patterns. We've already had sequences of episodes that featured specific girls for 0.5 - 2 episodes. The other pattern is that if there's an Isara "issue" to resolve, it'd be bullying, which is an end goal, and only Yuuki is in favor of that for the most part.

But yeah, everyone sees a big trend of "oh hey come to think of it, a lot of events that are going on in Koichoco don't actually have to do anything with Yuuki specifically". Yes Yuuki is involved or learned about it, but isn't the direct source of the problem nor the solution.
Like even if he wins the election, it might be himself that brings that extra kick to get over the hump, but for the most part it's his supporting cast that generated the momentum and possibility.


On a random episode 10 joke, I like how Satsuki referred to Yuuki as Oojima (kouhou?) when she came to the club room.

I'm looking at the current turn of events/routes as "route/scenario" resolution. A "base" or a "core problem resolution" that's also "independent of the election". It's occurred or is occurring for every girl but Isara (well I guess bullying is a "problem" so "election results" should "solve" it. Even if Yuuki wants it dealt with now, the strategy is to deal with it after. Either way, they're probably dealing with it eventually somehow).


So yeah I'm still picking Isara. Even if I'm being ... delusional
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Old 2012-09-16, 23:13   Link #1253
BladeEntity
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Spoiler for Length:


I'm not too sure, majority of what Yuuki I believe is actually out of his own choices, IIRC Satsuki convinced with to fight for what he believed in but it didn't involve giving with the will to run for the election, instead he tried to comvince his club to make Chisato run, in the end they picked him through voting. True he was forced into running by the club but I feel that it is just for the plots sake that he run.

In terms of the Chisato, the chocolate thing is definitely a ritual but the morning routine is just that its a routine.

Another thing about Satsuki not forcing him into anything she did ask what he would do if she did force herself on to him, and I'm sure she would have done it had see not been intterupted. IMO she does not act as a counterpoint, especially when the two sisters can use Yuuki as a prize disregarding his feelings all together if that is not forcing, things like being forced to stay in her room during the camp due to circumstances, are similar to events happening can't really be counted though, even though if she wanted there probably was a way for him to leave the building.

Mouri even before deciding to help Yuuki win the election told him that he already had his own agenda as pointed put by Chisato and the only reason he was helping was because it was mutually beneficial for them, in other words he is not as forced as you perceive IMO.
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Old 2012-09-17, 03:56   Link #1254
hyl
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I think people are overreacting to the chocolate part. While i agree that the anime has made it worse by overdramatizing this in episode 10 , by leaving out some information and even changing scenes completely compared to the game.

Spoiler for Game comparison about chocolate:


As for the completely changed scenes, i won't post that as that would be too much of a spoiler in here.
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Old 2012-09-17, 05:38   Link #1255
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Is anyone else curious about Michiru? Now that I know she's supposed to be a spy, I'm wondering how much of what we've seen of her personality was just her "doing her job" (Especially that whole harmonica indirect kiss thing at the end of ep 9), and how loyal she actually is to the food club
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Old 2012-09-17, 06:09   Link #1256
Xaturas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeman1884 View Post
Is anyone else curious about Michiru? Now that I know she's supposed to be a spy, I'm wondering how much of what we've seen of her personality was just her "doing her job" (Especially that whole harmonica indirect kiss thing at the end of ep 9), and how loyal she actually is to the food club
Considering that she is one of the possible love interest in VN. Some of it must be true.
Her behaving like a cat may be a personal trait. Not to mention that magic aura seeing of Oojima mood. Unless that is some kind of special commando training those spies get ^^.
Though she could come out of the closet sooner. Her fooling around on the floor in almost every ep was ...
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Old 2012-09-17, 10:45   Link #1257
Arya
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Spoiler for amoirsp quote:


Surely Isara and Satsuki share some points, they are both outsiders; they, more or less, never forced themselves into him and both worked as a "mean" to let Oojima grow up opening his eyes on what's there beyond the club. They both, having no connections with the club, are free from Chisato's legacy that let them be themselves instead of being subjected to it. I ruled her out simply because between them Satsuki has been proactive, Isara instead has been more passive in how the dynamics evolved through the series. And Isara seems to be the representation of scholarship issues, meant to enlighten Oojima, more than anything else. So she has a role, even if not the one you had preferred , that belong more to the election plot. (As Chisato's role seems to belong to the Chocolate plot; I hardly can fit Satsuki's role in one or another sub plot, even for that reason I had been expecting her fulfilling the love role at the end). Counting even how many non-encounters they had, namely having no screen time, I ruled her out.

I agree that Oojima never crossed any "romantic" line toward Satsuki, in fact I said how unclear his preference is yet and on that I have to praise the writers since usually at this point of a show the outcome had been already been cleared out in one direction or the other. Here, even if a general feeling toward Chisato has been being in the air from day one, at least for me, they are still keep things uncertain. I still have hopes for Satsuki But it's time to make it clearer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
I'm not too sure, majority of what Yuuki I believe is actually out of his own choices, IIRC Satsuki convinced with to fight for what he believed in but it didn't involve giving with the will to run for the election, instead he tried to comvince his club to make Chisato run, in the end they picked him through voting. True he was forced into running by the club but I feel that it is just for the plots sake that he run.
Well they talked like normal people do giving him a new perspective about elections. And the fact that he later on tried to make Chisato run means that Satsuki didn't convince him (that could be seen as a subtle way to "force" him) to run, but simply counseling him about that. A natural exchange of opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
In terms of the Chisato, the chocolate thing is definitely a ritual but the morning routine is just that its a routine.
Yep, but what I meant is that since she has a precedent, the chocolate ritual, you can't really say if some other routine act is to be intended simply as a routine or like something more significant and related to her issue. At least you can't see it with the same eyes than before. Better were to take it more carefully than your normal routine. What I mean is that the ritual should make oojima acts more carefully in everything concerning Chisato, willingly or unwillingly.
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Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
Another thing about Satsuki not forcing him into anything she did ask what he would do if she did force herself on to him, and I'm sure she would have done it had see not been intterupted. IMO she does not act as a counterpoint, especially when the two sisters can use Yuuki as a prize disregarding his feelings all together if that is not forcing, things like being forced to stay in her room during the camp due to circumstances, are similar to events happening can't really be counted though, even though if she wanted there probably was a way for him to leave the building.
Beware that I never addressed Chisato or Hazuki or even Mifuyu romantic actions as "forced" actions, since those actions are all related to the love sub plot. So even Satsuki "forcing" herself into him wouldn't have been something meaningful in that regard. I intentionally omitted every interaction that was intended to involve romance. Talking about Oojima staying in Satsuki vip room for the night, well I can't see it as forced, if not by the circumstances, not by her.
The only moment I can see her forcing him has been when Satsuki made him half spilling the beans about the kiss, but that was again in romance context where everything is permitted. And it was not forcing him doing something instead of something else in relation of what he want to do. Anyways Satsuki is not perfect (even if so far she has been depicted like that).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeEntity View Post
Mouri even before deciding to help Yuuki win the election told him that he already had his own agenda as pointed put by Chisato and the only reason he was helping was because it was mutually beneficial for them, in other words he is not as forced as you perceive IMO.
I used and use the word "force" or "forcing" for sake of brevity, it is meant to be used in opposition to a more natural flow of events, like the one involving Satsuki and Oojima and the elections talk. It is not intended like others people pointed a gun at Oojima forehead.


Anyways, I was thinking how the central point of the club is sweets and only sweets. Accidentally Chisato has an issue with chocolate, a kind of sweet. All the club members seem to be aware of Chisato's hidden issue. And from day one many of us were a bit confused by the club purpose. What if ...
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Old 2012-09-17, 11:42   Link #1258
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
All the club members seem to be aware of Chisato's hidden issue. And from day one many of us were a bit confused by the club purpose. What if ...
Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-09-17 at 13:56.
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Old 2012-09-17, 17:23   Link #1259
Arya
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About that, the club purpose, I wasn't serious ... I was stretching things out
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Old 2012-09-18, 01:57   Link #1260
Cosmic Eagle
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Yes yes.....Girls and their relationships are fun to discuss and all....but I can't believe no one here is actually batting an eyelid at what kind of effed up school they study in...

Yeah I know eroge organizations are usually rather dubious but for this genre the school still kind of crosses the red line.
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