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View Poll Results: Hyouka - Episode 22 [END] Rating
Perfect 10 86 57.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 26.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 8.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 3.33%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 2.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.67%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-17, 10:33   Link #81
eplipswich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
The calendar at the beginning of the episode showed April, but the actual festival occurs on March 3. I do not know why Gatou/Takemoto changed it.
To further elaborate on karice67's post, here's a link http://www.ginkoya.com/pages/girlsday.html, plus some explanation below.

The festival used to be held on March 3 of the Chinese lunar calendar, which Japan used to follow. It is now March 3 on the Gregorian calendar. However, there are certain areas of Japan that still follow the Chinese Lunar calendar, hence they celebrate on April 3 instead of March 3. Chitanda's area is one of them. Another reason is because of the peach blossoms as stated below (yeah, they're peach, not cherry).

A quote from the first link:

"Momo-no-Sekku used to be held on the 3rd of March according to the Lunar Calendar, though today it is actually not until early April that the peach blossoms begin to bloom, and that is how the name of this festival came about."

P.S. I got part of the info from Japanese Wikipedia as well, which is more accurate than English Wikipedia. And I can read and understand Japanese fairly well
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Last edited by eplipswich; 2012-09-17 at 10:55.
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Old 2012-09-17, 10:38   Link #82
ookamigirl
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Oreki doing Chitanda a favor.
The doll festival sure was a lot of fuss.
Things weren't exactly going according to plan.
Wow, Chitanda really looked amazing.
Oreki certainly noticed that!
The bridge construction thing messed up their planned route.
Seems like it was done on purpose.
Well, it did make the procession even more stunning.
The only thing missing in the end was Oreki's confession to Chitande under that sakura tree.
Now that would be a perfect ending.
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Old 2012-09-17, 10:59   Link #83
Blaat
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
. “Spare no expense” is an obvious mantra, and it starts with things like getting top-rate seiyuu like Ishizuka Unshou (as Hanai) and Suwabe Junichi (Konari) to play relatively minor one-off roles – something KyoAni has done for the entire series. But as it is with the visuals, it’s not just about throwing money at the show – these aren’t just famous seiyuu, but phenomenal actors (Ishizuka-san especially is as good as they come).
Excellent post as always Enzo, to add a bit here, if you don't mind, the other two males were voiced by Chiba Shigeru and Nagai Ichirô they have been in the business for a very long time now (indeed Nagai is in his 80s)
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Old 2012-09-17, 11:19   Link #84
Kouvley
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Hyouka was the classic slow build, a series that showed more patience than about any anime I can recall – sometimes too much, in fact. Because so much of the series is about atmosphere, it wormed its way into the consciousness rather than overwhelmed – and it was only in hindsight, sometimes, where I realized just how amazing what I’d just seen truly was.
Couldn't agree more.

I remember being underwhelmed by the first episode, almost bored by it even but when I watch it back now it's actually pretty amazing to see how far these characters have come.

As for the ending - Beautiful. Sublime. Superbly executed.

They completely had me at Hotarou's "confession", I was mentally fist pumping for about 2 seconds. But even so I didn't feel let down because the possibility of it happening in the future is very real, and that's good enough for me.
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Old 2012-09-17, 11:57   Link #85
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eplipswich View Post
To further elaborate on karice67's post, here's a link http://www.ginkoya.com/pages/girlsday.html, plus some explanation below.

The festival used to be held on March 3 of the Chinese lunar calendar, which Japan used to follow. It is now March 3 on the Gregorian calendar. However, there are certain areas of Japan that still follow the Chinese Lunar calendar, hence they celebrate on April 3 instead of March 3. Chitanda's area is one of them. Another reason is because of the peach blossoms as stated below (yeah, they're peach, not cherry).

A quote from the first link:

"Momo-no-Sekku used to be held on the 3rd of March according to the Lunar Calendar, though today it is actually not until early April that the peach blossoms begin to bloom, and that is how the name of this festival came about."

P.S. I got part of the info from Japanese Wikipedia as well, which is more accurate than English Wikipedia. And I can read and understand Japanese fairly well
As Chitanda literally calls it. this is the "lunisolar" calendar. It features "leap months" which is quite an odd concept for moderns to wrap their heads around. Some years therefore have 13 months.
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Old 2012-09-17, 12:37   Link #86
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
That’s how people change in real life, but very few anime (or any other works of fiction, for that matter) are patient enough and trust the audience enough to allow the characters to grow in this natural fashion.
Maybe because many writers or anime creators don’t consider the viewers or readers intelligent enough to “get it”. Or maybe those writers/creators truly lack the skill. Also, most anime adaptations only follow the source material as it is and some don’t even have the luxury of 20+ episodes to tell a story. If you ask me, there’s only few anime adaptations which able to add more depth and subtlety than the source material. One of them is Rurouni Kenshin: Suiokuhen (Trust & Betrayal). Btw, it’s a very well-made post by you. I’ll give you cookies for that, while also representing other posters who can’t .

Back to the episode, yeah, this is one beautiful episode and a very fitting (hanging) ending for this series. Furthermore, I like how both Houtarou & Eru were directly “aiming for the kill” AKA marriage. Eru was basically explaining to Houtaro about everything he’ll get in case he decides to take her as his soulmate, while Oreki was having a thought of proposing her after hearing that. That’s right, guys, “going out” is boring! If you want true adventure, GET MARRIED! All in all, I rarely gave a 10/10 point to any anime episode, but here goes one.
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Old 2012-09-17, 12:55   Link #87
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This was a great episode to an excellent. It wasn't over the top or dramatic, it was subtle and gave you a sense of closure.
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Old 2012-09-17, 13:16   Link #88
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Wow, I love how OP2 foreshadowed this episode.
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Old 2012-09-17, 15:15   Link #89
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I'm gonna need to watch the two last episodes again. They were more beautiful than I thought, it seems.
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Old 2012-09-17, 15:54   Link #90
Aquifina
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post

She knew. She already knew.
I agree with this observation. The blush and the lame out-of-place line about it getting cold was the tip off for her, and I think Chitanda can read Oreki like an open book. Which was why she immediately smiled and corrected him. I think Chitanda took a real risk talking about her fate, and its constrained horizons. Oreki was too awkward to say what he really felt, but I think from the uncompleted thought and blush, she knew Oreki accepted who she was. The wind gusting up and stirring the cherry blossoms was nature confirming what they both knew on the most fundamental level; hence Oreki's smile.
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Old 2012-09-17, 17:22   Link #91
Anh_Minh
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Goddammit, he totally had me. I was applauding him for being so bold, and it was just a daydream? Still, while Eru thinking of her future like that is expected, seeing how much of it was decided at birth, I was surprised that Houtarou was thinking in such terms.
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Old 2012-09-17, 17:45   Link #92
Dop
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Wow. Well. They really pulled out all the stops on the season finale, didn't they? And that was well worth it, because this was a beautiful episode, absolutely.

In the final analysis I think Hyouka was never actually a mystery show, but really a coming of age / slice of life show with mystery trappings. What the show was really about was character development, as we see Houtarou's character change throughout the course of the series.
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Old 2012-09-17, 18:09   Link #93
Aquifina
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Originally Posted by Metaler View Post
I'm gonna need to watch the two last episodes again. They were more beautiful than I thought, it seems.
I've rewatched maybe half of the episodes, and have been rewarded for it. There are a lot of little understated things that one doesn't appreciate until one sees the end of the series.
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Old 2012-09-17, 18:45   Link #94
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dop View Post
...In the final analysis I think Hyouka was never actually a mystery show, but really a coming of age / slice of life show with mystery trappings. What the show was really about was character development, as we see Houtarou's character change throughout the course of the series.
This. People's frustration with the somewhat lame mysteries was understandable, but in fact something else was going on all the time. I even enjoyed the characters when they were not developing, lol.

And in this case, the guys developed more than the girls, it seems. Maybe Eru's development was being attracted to this outsider Oreki, gradually coming to admire his strengths, and finally realizing he could be the right man for the job of Chitanda Eru's partner. Did Mayaka develop? I'm not sure, but I found her pretty vivid and interesting throughout: dark but able to receive light; prejudiced toward Oreki but open to seeing the good things he did. Natural and honest.

I can't help thinking that the brown-haired guy who got the route changed might be another candidate for Eru Chitanda's partner, perhaps one favored by her parents. But that's a fan-fic rather than part of this story, I guess.
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Old 2012-09-17, 19:01   Link #95
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I can't help thinking that the brown-haired guy who got the route changed might be another candidate for Eru Chitanda's partner, perhaps one favored by her parents. But that's a fan-fic rather than part of this story, I guess.
I was thinking exactly the same thing when I watched the last episode again. Chitanda did know quite a bit about him, didnt she? And she had a rather, vauge, maybe dislike, to the way she was talking.
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Old 2012-09-17, 19:13   Link #96
Hyper
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Maybe because many writers or anime creators don’t consider the viewers or readers intelligent enough to “get it”. Or maybe those writers/creators truly lack the skill. Also, most anime adaptations only follow the source material as it is and some don’t even have the luxury of 20+ episodes to tell a story.
I think it's more about not wanting to take the risk more than anything. Remember the discussion about three episodes rule and the like at the beginning of Hyouka? I think it shows our mindset. We expect them to hook us very early, and the industry generally follow that. They have to make characters went out of their supposedly usual behavior as an expense of making things more exciting.

Moreover, as you eluded to, this approach take time, and need to be planned ahead. Even with 22 episodes, the showing rather than screaming character developments at the audience only apply mostly about Houtarou, as I said when I made the same observation in the general thread. Take Eru for example. Someone probably still argue that she didn't change at all. We only got a concrete change when she explain herself in this episode. My impression is that most of the authors doesn't have the luxury of knowing that their series will get continuation beyond the first book. So they cannot plan ahead that far.
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Old 2012-09-17, 19:15   Link #97
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Originally Posted by bellsboy66 View Post
I was thinking exactly the same thing when I watched the last episode again. Chitanda did know quite a bit about him, didnt she? And she had a rather, vauge, maybe dislike, to the way she was talking.
What caught my attention more was the way Oreki reacted to the thought of him looking at Chitanda as the princess. He seemed almost a bit jealous.
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Old 2012-09-17, 19:42   Link #98
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Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
I think it's more about not wanting to take the risk more than anything. Remember the discussion about three episodes rule and the like at the beginning of Hyouka? I think it shows our mindset. We expect them to hook us very early, and the industry generally follow that. They have to make characters went out of their supposedly usual behavior as an expense of making things more exciting.

Moreover, as you eluded to, this approach take time, and need to be planned ahead. Even with 22 episodes, the showing rather than screaming character developments at the audience only apply mostly about Houtarou, as I said when I made the same observation in the general thread. Take Eru for example. Someone probably still argue that she didn't change at all. We only got a concrete change when she explain herself in this episode. My impression is that most of the authors doesn't have the luxury of knowing that their series will get continuation beyond the first book. So they cannot plan ahead that far.
I think you're right about this. It's perhaps interesting to note that the source material are actual novels and not what we call "light novels". A lot of Light Novels are designed to appeal to a slightly younger audience by having the stories be shorter and more self-contained; that combined with the illustrations make them "lighter reads". The also have a lot of the same characteristics as you describe -- the first volume tends to be a fully self-contained story (as if they don't know if they'll be continued or not), and the characters tend to expose their main traits more quickly to hook the audience more easily. A regular novel can be much more gradual in its development of characters and of a theme because the author has a lot more leeway in the book's presentation (they're not bound so tightly to hit certain readership numbers in a particular demographic as demanded by the label editors/publishers, and so on)...

When light novels are typically animated, the focus is usually to take advantage of the visual medium to make an "anime experience" out of the book. So a lot of the subtleties of the prose may be excised in favour of things that are flashier and "more anime". (The sorts of works that are chosen for anime adaptation in the first place are usually those that match this best.) I think that happened to a degree here too, but they chose a work that was deliberately understated and character-focused, and allowed it to remain so despite what would probably seem like the better judgement of the industry. They can only really "get away with this" because of the players involved; they know that people will give the show a chance just because of the director, writer, and animation production company. Despite having some nods to popular traits (and the subject matter itself isn't so far removed from your anime norms), this is still pretty close to an "arthouse anime". Even if other companies may want to make works like this, I think the number who could actually pull it off are few (not due to skill, necessarily, but due to a lack of ability to get the needed funding to "do it right" due to the fear of it being a total flop).

So yeah, I think it is risk aversion on both levels -- the way the source material is generally written, and also the way anime is generally produced. Even with the apparent success of this show, I doubt that we'll see many copycats; this isn't the sort of thing where producers will randomly bet on lightning striking twice.
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Old 2012-09-17, 19:49   Link #99
Mich666
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So... the end... finally... after amazing 20 and 21... Really, KyoAni? WTF was this sh*t?!
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Old 2012-09-17, 19:58   Link #100
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So... the end... finally... after amazing 20 and 21... Really, KyoAni? WTF was this sh*t?!
I think the general consensus is that it was a beautiful, poignant, and touchingly symbolic ending that subtly embodies all the character development we've seen over the course of this show.

I almost don't want to ask: and what did you see...?
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