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Old 2012-09-16, 18:57   Link #30621
Patchwork Chimera
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I meant little battler. He was probably still in the age of 'girls are yucky' and it takes some kind of girl to make a 10 year old start bragging and going shakespeare on them. Or that's what I think. I have a hard time imagining little battler talking about big boobs.
On the other hand, he was always a pervert...
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Old 2012-09-16, 19:04   Link #30622
GabrieliosP
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12 years old. That's the age where puberty starts kicking in and it makes sense for Battler to start showing off to Yasu.
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Old 2012-09-16, 19:42   Link #30623
Patchwork Chimera
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Ah, of course, sorry. Made a mistake in there. Well, starts making sense. But still is too early. no? A twelve year old saying something about how big his girlfriend's boobs have to be.
Or maybe it's allright since he's an Ushiromiya. Pervertedness is hereditary... except for Krauss, but he's an idiot XD
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Old 2012-09-16, 19:49   Link #30624
GabrieliosP
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There was a boy my class when I was around that age... let's just say everyone's parents didn't want their childs to be friends with him. All he talked about was girls and sex.

So yeah, it's not impossible for 12-year old Battler to be like that.
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Old 2012-09-16, 19:58   Link #30625
Patchwork Chimera
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W-Woh. Battler being compared a lot to kinzo takes a whole new meaning! And him not being as flashy... my god, cannot unsee...
Anyway, I recently read some traslation to B. Battler's lines in OMK (You posted about it right?) and the part about -letting your body get cold because I can't love- or -Now your body is MINE- really were freaky.
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Old 2012-09-16, 20:05   Link #30626
Jan-Poo
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From the scene of EP7 it is shown that Yasu formed her new image of Beatrice based on what Battler told her about his ideal girlfriend.

So that logically should have happened in 1980.
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Old 2012-09-17, 00:33   Link #30627
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Someone make a photoshop of the Goldsmith face on a meido sprite with the caption "I cannot be loved!"
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Old 2012-09-17, 04:21   Link #30628
AuraTwilight
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GoldenLand, I love you. I owe you one Wish that is within my power to grant ye.
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Old 2012-09-17, 08:04   Link #30629
Wanderer
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Next installment. It's a big one. It's hard to tell since I'm cross-referencing a couple incomplete sources for this, but I'm probably more than halfway done.

The text relies a lot on cues in the characters' speech patterns that can't be translated in order to convey who is speaking, so sometimes I will have a character's name in parentheses following a line when context isn't enough.

Spoiler for First Twilight and beyond:


Spoiler for Thoughts:

Last edited by Wanderer; 2012-11-04 at 08:18.
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Old 2012-09-17, 10:23   Link #30630
Drifloon
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That's all pretty interesting. I still don't think that the mutilated corpses are really necessary, though...Everyone in EP3 was killed in pretty mundane ways, but I don't think it was any less effective in conveying the Illusion of the Witch. Heck, it might even have been better to go for a more subtle approach. Yasu really isn't a very refined witch, is she? Pukukuku.
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Old 2012-09-17, 11:25   Link #30631
Jan-Poo
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At any rate the first twilight of EP2 cannot be simply explained by the necessity of hiding wounds. Beatrice has just been purposely creative. Naturally they were all dead already so it's not like she hurt them or anything, but certainly she didn't really have any respect for the dead.

The sentence that I found most relevant is this:

Quote:
"Don't hate me. You guys didn't do anything wrong. If you're gonna hate, hate that guy who trashed his promise for 6 long years."
This seems to confirm what I was arguing some time ago regarding the fact that whatever wrong they might have done to Yasu, that didn't count as a factor in being chosen as victims.

It really seems that Yasu doesn't really care about them, anyone would be fine, she just needs corpses.

However the fact that she claims through Flauros that Battler is to be hated seems to contradict the claim that she didn't perform the serial murder as a form of vengeance.
Because... let's be serious... nobody had any reason to hate Battler except herself. If she thinks that what Battler has done was reason enough to hate him, it's because she hated him.
Maybe the part of her that still loved him didn't allow her to realize or admit her own hate. But frankly hating someone that you once loved is pretty common.

When you consider the apparent fact that she resented Battler for what he's done 6 years before, it's really hard to accept that what she has done had absolutely nothing to do with vengeance, expecially because it doesn't really make sense elseway.
What exactly was she trying to achieve by massacring Battler's family in those horrible ways? If it was just to make him understand her feelings and making him remembering his sin, there were plenty of other less cruel and drastic options.

Maybe vengeance wasn't her primary purpose, but hell, let's be honest here, she wanted Battler to suffer.
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Old 2012-09-17, 11:45   Link #30632
Patchwork Chimera
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I find really curious how, if this is the general way the murders were done, in-game people tends to be sympathetic towards Yasu. Maybe in Prime it didn't happen that way. Maybe she went back, decided not to kill anyone or something like that. Still, holly shit. This are her toughts and desires, Ladies & Gents.

But then, even Our Confessions is full of fantasy scenes, just in a different perspective called OOC.

If we try to link it to the perception of every META that played the gameboard that went all 'find the heart~, don't exclusively blame Beato~', this scenarios have so many wrongs in them.

So what, OurConf. is a work witout love? In other words a B. Battler scenario? Ryuukishi tends to go to the extremes so often is funny: or you see the culprit as a tragic hero who breaks under the world's unfairness, or the culprit is a psycothic bastard that gets the giggles dismembering pepole.

Still, this pretty much writes down the general theories that go around the net to explain the gameboards (and the most easy to reach): namely, that Yasu with the help of the servants reunited all the siblings to announce herself as the Head and then went beast on them, dishonored their bodies and worked in the pretty first twilight that tends to be so shocking. That the accomplices were the ones leaving letters when nobody was looking and that Yasu had more ways to kill them that the winchesters.

I wonder what went wrong in Rokken Prime... the first twilight seems so full of posibilities to fail, least some of them are faking it.
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Old 2012-09-17, 11:56   Link #30633
Captain Bluebeard
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
This seems to confirm what I was arguing some time ago regarding the fact that whatever wrong they might have done to Yasu, that didn't count as a factor in being chosen as victims.
I think that's a given from the start. A serial murderer can't have a grudge against every single one of their victims individually.

Quote:
What exactly was she trying to achieve by massacring Battler's family in those horrible ways? If it was just to make him understand her feelings and making him remembering his sin, there were plenty of other less cruel and drastic options.
Well, she'd go nuts over the corpses for the purposes of the game perhaps(?).... after all, it's a black magic ceremony.

Quote:
Maybe vengeance wasn't her primary purpose, but hell, let's be honest here, she wanted Battler to suffer.
"Boyfriend forgot his pony.... Let's massacre all his family in the most gruesome way imaginable!"

(Think I read that in some meme or something... It really fits here, right?)
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Old 2012-09-17, 13:30   Link #30634
Drifloon
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Well, I think that the "If you're gonna hate, hate the guy who trashed his promise" line is more saying that the victims shouldn't blame Beatrice for their deaths, but Battler for forcing her to do it.

...Sure, that is a screwed up way of thinking, but it really isn't anything new. Clair said in EP7 that she always found it disagreeable that Battler wouldn't realise that the crime was his fault. It seriously seems like she thinks that she isn't to blame at all, and that she had literally no choice after what Battler did to her. That's actually the vibe I get throughout a lot of EP7.

Also, does anyone find it odd how the fantasy scene is so self-contradictory here? I mean, you'd think that Flauros would say to blame Kinzo for starting the ceremony, since that is what the fantasy version of the story is supposed to be. And also, how Flauros mentions Krauss and Natsuhi being absent, but then they're retconned into being present?
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Old 2012-09-17, 14:48   Link #30635
AuraTwilight
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I don't think Yasu is really resenting Battler here so much as shifting blame from herself. Something she's done her whole life regarding absolutely everything.

That being said I still refuse to believe she did it.
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Old 2012-09-17, 16:51   Link #30636
UsagiTenpura
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Thought of something, which I haven't seen explored personally.
Kinzo challenged everyone with the epitaph riddle because he learned he was about to die.
Looking for an alternative to genital problems concerning Yasu's complex, couldn't it be that?
Yasu learned she was about to die, making her feel like she was not allowed to love (as she would never grow up to fulfill it).
Her actions related to the epitaph might parallel Kinzo's as well. Whoever solved the epitaph = Beatrice (to Kinzo).
Is Yasu seeking a "Battler" or something in the same process? Is it somehow possible what Yasu is looking for is redemption before her death?

Arc 6 even has Battler seemingly fulfilling every wish of Beatrice (meta people) yet she still dies. Rest in peace? Could that be her goal?
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Old 2012-09-17, 17:01   Link #30637
Patchwork Chimera
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That's... actually not that bad. If the wounds left in her body by being trown from a cliff were internal and her organs were failing, not only her uterus, she'd die before she could properly begin her life as a wife or boyfriend or whatever. Then all her despair and devil-may-care atitude might be less weird: it's not extrange that people with a death sentence by illness does crazy things. Actually equal or more crazy than blowing up an island.
It's sounds good and despairing enough...

On a side note: I realized that Battler had resolved the part about following the sweetfish river and searching for a place with certain kanji in it's name in EP1. The cousins even sugested looking a map. Yes, they were using Odawara and not the right 'river' (choosing the right thing is hard for those who don't know about taiwan). Cool thing is that Battler alone came with the steps to apply to the real thing in little time lazyng in the beach, and all the other cousins had to think together to reach it.
C'mon, Battler. You are always at least mildly competent in gameboard, but in Meta you're a small bomb failure. Tsk, tsk.
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Last edited by Patchwork Chimera; 2012-09-17 at 17:34.
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Old 2012-09-17, 17:57   Link #30638
Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The sentence that I found most relevant is this:
Actually, at first I thought it was Flauros speaking, but looking at it again I'm not really sure whose line it is between Flauros and Beatrice. It bridges the two different versions of the scene (magical, mundane) and makes sense in the context of both. It's probably meant to segue the two perspectives together. Anyway, the original line is:

「悪く思うな。そなたらに罪はない。恨むなら、6年もの長きにわたり、約束を反故にしたあの男を恨むのだな 。」

Flauros likes to add だぜぃっ to the end of her sentences, so it's actually probably more like Beatrice.

Anyway, I edited it to make the speech patterns a bit more neutral.
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Old 2012-09-17, 21:16   Link #30639
Jan-Poo
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Ah well I was assuming it was still Beatrice talking through Flauros anyway, but reading that sentence in Japanese I think it's almost certainly Beatrice directly. That "sonatara" isn't something that anyone else would say.
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Old 2012-09-18, 09:45   Link #30640
Renall
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Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera View Post
I find really curious how, if this is the general way the murders were done, in-game people tends to be sympathetic towards Yasu. Maybe in Prime it didn't happen that way. Maybe she went back, decided not to kill anyone or something like that. Still, holly shit. This are her toughts and desires, Ladies & Gents.

But then, even Our Confessions is full of fantasy scenes, just in a different perspective called OOC.
The impression I've gotten from Chiru and OC is not a positive one of the person behind Beatrice. Someone who demands everyone understand her heart but has no empathy for others. Someone who thinks she's suffering but ignores the suffering of others (the lack of Genji characterization could well be because Yasu never once cared why Genji would want to help her, despite him doing a lot for her according to Requiem). Someone who sees other people as so greedy they'd agree to the murder of their families and friends but unable to see the irony in how selfish her own desires are. Someone willing to dishonor the memory of the dead while hiding her own involvement and existence.

And, quite possibly, someone so self-absorbed as to hurt other people and then daydream that those people would forgive her for her self-desribed "noble" motivations. That's awfully twisted.

Yet I don't get the sense that's how I'm supposed to view the character.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
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